Rank our WRs

[*Synric*]

(06-17-2021, 11:14 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, here are Curtis ranks in receiving yards in his "prime".  I know it's hard to judge players across generations, so looking at him vs. his peers may help determine just how good he was in comparison to the guys who came later (Chad and AJ)

1973 - 5th
1974 - 13th
1975 - 2nd
1976- 13th
1977 - 68th
1978 - 23rd

Here's Chad "prime":

2002 - 15th
2003 - 4th
2004 - 6th
2005 - 3rd
2006 - 1st
2007 - 3rd

Here's AJ's prime:

2011 - 17th
2012 - 10th
2013 - 5th
2014 - 20th
2015 - 8th
2016 - 28th

I did learn more about Curtis in doing this.  Those first 4 years are no doubt strong for Curtis.  Frankly, they're probably better than AJ's ranks in his 4 best years.  But Chad Johnson was clearly the better player among his peers than Curtis was.  To finish top 6 in receiving 5 straight years blows almost anyone out of the water, including Isaac Curtis.  And I mean no offense to Curtis in pointing that out either.  I often will gladly point out that Chad blows AJ out of the water too.

Edit: I included AJ's prime as well.

Isaac Curtis was before the Mel Blount rule. 

You cannot compare base stats from two eras that far apart. No one could say who was better Chad or Isaac but I can without a doubt say Isaac Curtis would have rather played under the offense friendly heavy west coast pass offenses of the Chad era... Just like I can say Chad could have loved to play in the heavy spread RPO of the AJ Green Era.

[*bfine32*]

(06-18-2021, 03:10 AM)Synric Wrote: Isaac Curtis was before the Mel Blount rule. 

You cannot compare base stats from two eras that far apart. No one could say who was better Chad or Isaac but I can without a doubt say  Isaac Curtis would have rather played under the offense friendly heavy west coast pass offenses of the Chad era... Just like I can say Chad could have loved to play in the heavy spread RPO of the AJ Green Era.

I do agree it is silly to compare raw numbers between generations, but I do find validity in comparing where they ranked among their peers. And we damn sure cannot say Isaac was saddled with a lesser QB

[BacknDaDey]

(06-18-2021, 12:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do agree it is silly to compare raw numbers between generations, but I do find validity in comparing where they ranked among their peers. And we damn sure cannot say Isaac was saddled with a lesser QB

You are right bfine...he wasn't saddled with a lessor QB.  Curtis was saddled with a team that wasn't throwing the football as much back then.  You can't put up stats if you're not getting thrown too.

[*bfine32*]

(06-18-2021, 12:49 PM)BacknDaDey Wrote: You are right bfine...he wasn't saddled with a lessor QB.  Curtis was saddled with a team that wasn't throwing the football as much back then.  You can't put up stats if you're not getting thrown too.

But he was getting thrown to as much as his peers. Ken Anderson was consistently top 10 in passing attempt/yards

[Murdock2420]

Found this interesting gem of an article:

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/arizona-cardinals-aj-green-blow-our-mind/

The interesting parts aren't about the idea that Green can blow their minds, but more of what was said inside the article as it relates to this discussion.

1) Over and over pre-draft the talk was about the Bengals WR and lack of separation.

"The Cardinals believe Green can still be very good. He will no longer be the focal point of opposing defenses. Steve Keim noted he still gets separation, he still can move, he has great hands and catches the ball well in traffic."

2) He only had 47 receptions on 104 targets in 2020. Keim said 38 of the passes thrown to him last year were uncatchable.

That bold part of that statement is concerning, is this a young QB finding his way? A flawed OL causing bad throws? Poor play-design?

Figured after reading it I'd toss it in here to go along with discussion on the Bengals WRs as it seems like relevant information.

[*bfine32*]

(06-18-2021, 04:58 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Found this interesting gem of an article:

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/arizona-cardinals-aj-green-blow-our-mind/

The interesting parts aren't about the idea that Green can blow their minds, but more of what was said inside the article as it relates to this discussion.

1) Over and over pre-draft the talk was about the Bengals WR and lack of separation.

"The Cardinals believe Green can still be very good. He will no longer be the focal point of opposing defenses. Steve Keim noted he still gets separation, he still can move, he has great hands and catches the ball well in traffic."

2) He only had 47 receptions on 104 targets in 2020. Keim said 38 of the passes thrown to him last year were uncatchable.

That bold part of that statement is concerning, is this a young QB finding his way? A flawed OL causing bad throws? Poor play-design?

Figured after reading it I'd toss it in here to go along with discussion on the Bengals WRs as it seems like relevant information.

The bold part of the statement leads me to believe Steve Keim is clueless. AJ was not the focal point of opposing defenses last year

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 04:58 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Found this interesting gem of an article:

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/arizona-cardinals-aj-green-blow-our-mind/

The interesting parts aren't about the idea that Green can blow their minds, but more of what was said inside the article as it relates to this discussion.

1) Over and over pre-draft the talk was about the Bengals WR and lack of separation.

"The Cardinals believe Green can still be very good. He will no longer be the focal point of opposing defenses. Steve Keim noted he still gets separation, he still can move, he has great hands and catches the ball well in traffic."

2) He only had 47 receptions on 104 targets in 2020. Keim said 38 of the passes thrown to him last year were uncatchable.

That bold part of that statement is concerning, is this a young QB finding his way? A flawed OL causing bad throws? Poor play-design?

Figured after reading it I'd toss it in here to go along with discussion on the Bengals WRs as it seems like relevant information.

The biggest problem with AJ last year is he couldn't get any separation and that is the reason the passes were uncatchable
as Burrow had to put it where only his guy could get it. That wasn't Burrow's fault FFS.

Wish the best for AJ and hope he does well in Zona but that is some wishful thinking going on. He has lost more than just 
one step he has lost like 4.

[Murdock2420]

(06-18-2021, 07:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The biggest problem with AJ last year is he couldn't get any separation and that is the reason the passes were uncatchable
as Burrow had to put it where only his guy could get it. That wasn't Burrow's fault FFS.

Wish the best for AJ and hope he does well in Zona but that is some wishful thinking going on. He has lost more than just 
one step he has lost like 4.

Just found it interesting. Wasn't saying I believed it, but it certainly is an interesting take on things. 

I figure with A.J. it is one of three things.

1) He's done. The injuries have caught up and he isn't going to be productive anymore.

2) He finally didn't get hurt, so another year removed from injury and he might rebound. (Think Geno's recovery).

3) He quit trying. I hate to think this is possible because I liked A.J. but after the injuries and the trade me statement on the sideline and how tight he was with Dalton plus his own body language on the field at times, I really wonder if Green is done or just was done here like Dunlap.

It'll be interesting to see, because if he has a bounce back season in Arizona, that is yet another mark against this front office, this coaching staff and this franchise in general.

[The Clapp]

(06-18-2021, 04:58 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Found this interesting gem of an article:

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/arizona-cardinals-aj-green-blow-our-mind/

The interesting parts aren't about the idea that Green can blow their minds, but more of what was said inside the article as it relates to this discussion.

1) Over and over pre-draft the talk was about the Bengals WR and lack of separation.

"The Cardinals believe Green can still be very good. He will no longer be the focal point of opposing defenses. Steve Keim noted he still gets separation, he still can move, he has great hands and catches the ball well in traffic."

2) He only had 47 receptions on 104 targets in 2020. Keim said 38 of the passes thrown to him last year were uncatchable.

That bold part of that statement is concerning, is this a young QB finding his way? A flawed OL causing bad throws? Poor play-design?

Figured after reading it I'd toss it in here to go along with discussion on the Bengals WRs as it seems like relevant information.

I'm wanna believe that Steve is a fargin icehole...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpzAeqCvxPo   ...way more catchable balls than 9..

Edit: I apologized for calling him an Icehole.. im guessing he meant 38 of the 104..not 38 of the 47 catches...
Edit on my Edit: Im now back to calling him an Icehole after reading rfaulk's post below...

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2021, 04:58 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Found this interesting gem of an article:

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/arizona-cardinals-aj-green-blow-our-mind/

The interesting parts aren't about the idea that Green can blow their minds, but more of what was said inside the article as it relates to this discussion.

1) Over and over pre-draft the talk was about the Bengals WR and lack of separation.

"The Cardinals believe Green can still be very good. He will no longer be the focal point of opposing defenses. Steve Keim noted he still gets separation, he still can move, he has great hands and catches the ball well in traffic."

2) He only had 47 receptions on 104 targets in 2020. Keim said 38 of the passes thrown to him last year were uncatchable.

That bold part of that statement is concerning, is this a young QB finding his way? A flawed OL causing bad throws? Poor play-design?

Figured after reading it I'd toss it in here to go along with discussion on the Bengals WRs as it seems like relevant information.

That's a guy on a "new" team spinning yarns about a "new" player and it's a bunch of BS. I just went back and watched all the incomplete passes thrown toward AJ last year and what i saw was a bunch of shitty route running a bunch of shitty effort and more than a few passes hit his hands that he couldn't bring in. And that's not including the shitty body language that i saw over and over again.

Nothing at all to be concerned about unless you're a Cardinals fan and you're expecting 'prime AJ'. 

[Essex Johnson]

(06-18-2021, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But he was getting thrown to as much as his peers. Ken Anderson was consistently top 10 in passing attempt/yards

And Curtis was elite in TDs and yards per receptions with his peers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 07:25 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Just found it interesting. Wasn't saying I believed it, but it certainly is an interesting take on things. 

I figure with A.J. it is one of three things.

1) He's done. The injuries have caught up and he isn't going to be productive anymore.

2) He finally didn't get hurt, so another year removed from injury and he might rebound. (Think Geno's recovery).

3) He quit trying. I hate to think this is possible because I liked A.J. but after the injuries and the trade me statement on the sideline and how tight he was with Dalton plus his own body language on the field at times, I really wonder if Green is done or just was done here like Dunlap.

It'll be interesting to see, because if he has a bounce back season in Arizona, that is yet another mark against this front office, this coaching staff and this franchise in general.

I think it is all 3 honestly after watching last season. Love AJ, but you have to try, he ran a lot of sloppy routes last year.

Sure wasn't his old self at all.

(06-18-2021, 07:28 PM)The Clapp Wrote: I'm wanna believe that Steve is a fargin icehole...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpzAeqCvxPo   ...way more catchable balls than 9..

Edit: I apologized for calling him a Icehole.. im guessing he meant 38 of the 104..not 38 of the 47 catches...
Edit on my Edit: Im now back to calling him a Icehole after reading rfaulk's post below...

 

(06-18-2021, 09:17 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's a guy on a "new" team spinning yarns about a "new" player and it's a bunch of BS. I just went back and watched all the incomplete passes thrown toward AJ last year and what i saw was a bunch of shitty route running a bunch of shitty effort and more than a few passes hit his hands that he couldn't bring in. And that's not including the shitty body language that i saw over and over again.

Nothing at all to be concerned about unless you're a Cardinals fan and you're expecting 'prime AJ'. 

No shit Rfaulk, no shit.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

BTW, speaking of Receivers, just watched the Spring League Mega Bowl and thought Isaac Zico would make a nice depth
piece for us at WR. Led the Spring League in TD's. I also liked what I saw from the QB Ryan Willis. The Lineman won the
game in a pretty good one over the Jousters.

Also have to add that Perez the QB for the Jousters was taught up by Taylor when he was with the Rams and he spoke of
him. Could be a decent backup for us, who knows? Just throwing it out there....

[Shake n Blake]

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And Curtis was elite in TDs and yards per receptions with his peers.

Not to answer for bfine, but I personally rank YPC last in importance among the major stat categories.

Player A has 40 catches for 800 yards and 6 scores.
Player B has 80 catches for 1150 yards and 5 scores.

Who had the better season? I'd say the guy who was steadily part of the offense. Darnay always had a better YPC than Pick, but we all know who the better WR was.

...and this whole time we've only been looking at the best 5 years for these players...which benefits Isaac, because he had the shortest "prime".

Also, with Isaac averaging 4.5 TDs for his career, was he really elite in that category among his peers?