Bengals Rebuild Year 2 Offseason

[*Synric*]

This week will be the last of the OTA's with Mandatory Mini Camp and marks 2 Months until the first pre-season game. So I thought we could look back at the Offseason moves as a whole.

The Bengals moved on from some big names this offseason including two all time Bengals greats AJ Green and Geno Atkins, but that wasnt all they also lost two starting corners William Jackson III and Mackensie Alexander plus their best Edge Rusher Carl Lawson. WJ3 and Lawson received big contracts that they may or may not have deserved after varying up and down careers in Cincinnati.

Even though Offensive Line was the biggest need in most fans minds the Bengals for the second straight year added experience in Free Agency to the Defense. Trey Hendrickson broke out for the Saints in 2020 after not getting alot of snaps in his first 3 years. He is a smart pass rusher with excellent hands but still needs reps as a run defender so we could see some growing pains in 2021. I really like the  Contract the Bengals signed Hendrickson to he gets paid but it doesnt handicap the Bengals if he doesn't work out. The Bengals added corners Chidobe Awuzie, Mike Hilton, Eli Apple all of them are still young and growing as players but experienced. Duke and Lou have built a young experienced Secondary. They also brought in Defensive Tackle Larry Ogunjobi. Ogunjobi was disruptive but inconsistent early in his career in Cleveland and was forced to play out of position in 2020 due to injuries. 

Earlier in the Offseason the Bengals made two moves adding Frank Pollack and Marion Hobby to coach their two most problematic areas Offensive and Defensive Line. Duke and Taylor after adding experience to their defense set their sights on replacing Bobby Hart at Right Tackle with the Veteran Riley Reiff. This is one of my favorite moves of the off-season because Reiff is a veteran Offensive Tackle still playing at a high level despite being 32 and comes from the exact system the Bengals have wanted to run since Taylor landed in Cincy. He adds experience and leadership to a young directionless Offensive Line room and will be a huge resource for Frank Pollack along with a solid Starting Tackle. They also resigned Quinton Spain who they added mid season last year. Spain had an up and down year but its not surprising considering he bounced from LG to RG several times even mid game and also had a start at RT.

Free Agency didn't go the way most fans wanted because everyone had their hearts set on specific players but the Bengals did add some key pieces at positions of need.


Pre Draft the Bengals fan community was in sort of a civil war over the 5th pick of the draft but in reality any of the 3 targets would have been solid additions to the roster. The team went with the explosive playmaker Ja'Marr Chase. Chase adds the speed to the Bengals Wide receiver core the Bengals have been missing since Marvin Jones left in free agency in 2016. After the receiver they added heavily to the depth of both Lines which has been an issue for several years. Jackson Carman has as high of a ceiling of any offensive linemen in the draft class and a move inside could likely highlight his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Joseph Ossai, Cameron Sample, and Tyler Shelvin add to the much needed pass rush and depth of the defensive line. D'Ante Smith is an intriguing raw prospect with all the qualities you want in an Offensive Tackle but needs at least a year. Trey Hill could be one of the biggest draft steals after an injury riddled inconsistent 2020 covid season.



I know alot of people are still upset the Bengals didnt spend through the roof on the Offensive Line but they did attack the trenches on both sides of the ball while adding experience to key positions. I really like the direction they are moving roster wise and the smart additions to the coaching staff. Im looking forward to the 2021/2022 season after a full offseason.

Who Dey.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-14-2021, 11:59 AM)Synric Wrote: Earlier in the Offseason the Bengals made two moves adding Frank Pollack and Marion Hobby to coach their two most problematic areas Offensive and Defensive Line.

I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

[*ochocincos*]

(06-18-2021, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

One could argue Year 1 was not intended to be a rebuild, but rather the expectation that Taylor would turn Marvin's 6-10 team into a winner.
It was then determined that a rebuild needed to happen because of the lack of fit that those existing players had in Taylor's and Anarumo's schemes.

[Joelist]

(06-18-2021, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

I think they did 50% correct - Turner had to go. It's BAD when not only a unit but the players individually regress under a position coach. Turner's approach and philosophy succeeded in messing up the fundamentals of players. Pollack is a teacher and known for teaching good technique, and has his work cut out for him. 

The other 50% however is not firing Lou Anuramo. While I am happy they have reloaded the D and used the draft in part to rebuild the DL room the fact that Lou with his harebrained schemes is still here us a problem.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-14-2021, 11:59 AM)Synric Wrote: This week will be the last of the OTA's with Mandatory Mini Camp and marks 2 Months until the first pre-season game. So I thought we could look back at the Offseason moves as a whole.

The Bengals moved on from some big names this offseason including two all time Bengals greats AJ Green and Geno Atkins, but that wasnt all they also lost two starting corners William Jackson III and Mackensie Alexander plus their best Edge Rusher Carl Lawson. WJ3 and Lawson received big contracts that they may or may not have deserved after varying up and down careers in Cincinnati.

Even though Offensive Line was the biggest need in most fans minds the Bengals for the second straight year added experience in Free Agency to the Defense. Trey Hendrickson broke out for the Saints in 2020 after not getting alot of snaps in his first 3 years. He is a smart pass rusher with excellent hands but still needs reps as a run defender so we could see some growing pains in 2021. I really like the  Contract the Bengals signed Hendrickson to he gets paid but it doesnt handicap the Bengals if he doesn't work out. The Bengals added corners Chidobe Awuzie, Mike Hilton, Eli Apple all of them are still young and growing as players but experienced. Duke and Lou have built a young experienced Secondary. They also brought in Defensive Tackle Larry Ogunjobi. Ogunjobi was disruptive but inconsistent early in his career in Cleveland and was forced to play out of position in 2020 due to injuries. 

Earlier in the Offseason the Bengals made two moves adding Frank Pollack and Marion Hobby to coach their two most problematic areas Offensive and Defensive Line. Duke and Taylor after adding experience to their defense set their sights on replacing Bobby Hart at Right Tackle with the Veteran Riley Reiff. This is one of my favorite moves of the off-season because Reiff is a veteran Offensive Tackle still playing at a high level despite being 32 and comes from the exact system the Bengals have wanted to run since Taylor landed in Cincy. He adds experience and leadership to a young directionless Offensive Line room and will be a huge resource for Frank Pollack along with a solid Starting Tackle. They also resigned Quinton Spain who they added mid season last year. Spain had an up and down year but its not surprising considering he bounced from LG to RG several times even mid game and also had a start at RT.

Free Agency didn't go the way most fans wanted because everyone had their hearts set on specific players but the Bengals did add some key pieces at positions of need.


Pre Draft the Bengals fan community was in sort of a civil war over the 5th pick of the draft but in reality any of the 3 targets would have been solid additions to the roster. The team went with the explosive playmaker Ja'Marr Chase. Chase adds the speed to the Bengals Wide receiver core the Bengals have been missing since Marvin Jones left in free agency in 2016. After the receiver they added heavily to the depth of both Lines which has been an issue for several years. Jackson Carman has as high of a ceiling of any offensive linemen in the draft class and a move inside could likely highlight his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Joseph Ossai, Cameron Sample, and Tyler Shelvin add to the much needed pass rush and depth of the defensive line. D'Ante Smith is an intriguing raw prospect with all the qualities you want in an Offensive Tackle but needs at least a year. Trey Hill could be one of the biggest draft steals after an injury riddled inconsistent 2020 covid season.



I know alot of people are still upset the Bengals didnt spend through the roof on the Offensive Line but they did attack the trenches on both sides of the ball while adding experience to key positions. I really like the direction they are moving roster wise and the smart additions to the coaching staff. Im looking forward to the 2021/2022 season after a full offseason.

Who Dey.

Great post and thread Synric. I think you pretty much nailed the Offseason rebuild where it was all about the trenches, getting
Pollack and Hobby was the start of building the foundation along with the smart vet in Riley Reiff at RT and Trey Hendrickson 
and Ogunjobi on the DL. We will see how the injured FA's of last year come along in Reader and Waynes as I think this could 
be huge for the entire team along with coaching which is still my biggest concern with the team.

Love the roster and maybe just building up the trenches was what was needed as having a team with terrible players in the 
trenches could even hinder Billy B. We will see, make or break year for Zac Taylor, lets hope the light turns on and we aren't
decimated by injuries. I also am looking forward to this season big time cause there are no excuses, last year was weird man.

Hard to judge a lot of what went on. Love the additions of Chase, Carman, Ossai, Cam Sample, D'Ante Smith, Trey Hill, Chris 
Evans, Wyatt Hubert and maybe the most elusive weapon in Evan McPherson. This guy could be a great kicker for us.

Also loved how they attacked the Secondary, if there is one thing that Lou is good with it is the Secondary.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-18-2021, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

1. He meant from a personnel standpoint (and he's 100% correct).
2. He never said it's NOT year 3; he said it's rebuild year 2, which it is.

[TJ528]

(06-18-2021, 02:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: One could argue Year 1 was not intended to be a rebuild, but rather the expectation that Taylor would turn Marvin's 6-10 team into a winner.
It was then determined that a rebuild needed to happen because of the lack of fit that those existing players had in Taylor's and Anarumo's schemes.

Here is where i have my problem.  So people want to say he's only had 2 off season's, and the first one was trying to win wiht Marvin's players.  

Well I think the 1st thing they did wrong was allow the hiring of someone who picked a defensive coordinator who wanted to play zone defense with a defense that played mostly man to man.  Hmmm wonder why that one didn't work. 

Then you bring in an offensive coordinator or sorry head coach who's never been an offensive coordinator in the NFL before and he wants to be head coach and the offensive coordinator.  Well again after 2 years we see how well that one's worked out for this team.  

I tend to agree with whomever said the biggest issues with this team are the OC, DC and you have to throw the head coach in there because he's the one who's stuck with Lou through his 2 shitty first years.  

[impactplaya]

(06-18-2021, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

Jim Turner was one of the worst position coaches the Bengals 
Have ever had. Can you tell me what olinemen he has coached under his tutilidge that was even considered good?
He will never set foot in a NFL stadium again unless 
He is a fan.
Oh where is he at now??
Texas State.
Thats all.you need to know

[TJ528]

(06-18-2021, 04:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Jim Turner was one of the worst position coaches the Bengals 
Have ever had. Can you tell me what olinemen he has coached under his tutilidge that was even considered good?
He will never set foot in a NFL stadium again unless 
He is a fan.
Oh where is he at now??
Texas State.
Thats all.you need to know

Yet he was hired by our Head Coach to be the Offensive Line coach for an NFL organization.  

Even though the dude had many red flags he was still hired.  

[Sled21]

I think it has been a successful offseason, and I also believe Zac and Lou will have a lot of people eating crow this season. Of course, I could be wrong....

[*ochocincos*]

(06-18-2021, 04:01 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Here is where i have my problem.  So people want to say he's only had 2 off season's, and the first one was trying to win wiht Marvin's players.  

Well I think the 1st thing they did wrong was allow the hiring of someone who picked a defensive coordinator who wanted to play zone defense with a defense that played mostly man to man.  Hmmm wonder why that one didn't work. 

Then you bring in an offensive coordinator or sorry head coach who's never been an offensive coordinator in the NFL before and he wants to be head coach and the offensive coordinator.  Well again after 2 years we see how well that one's worked out for this team.  

I tend to agree with whomever said the biggest issues with this team are the OC, DC and you have to throw the head coach in there because he's the one who's stuck with Lou through his 2 shitty first years.  

I'm with you. If they wanted to win, they should have brought in people who were better fits for the existing players.
Probably should have brought in more proven coaches if there was an expectation to win quicker.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 04:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think it has been a successful offseason, and I also believe Zac and Lou will have a lot of people eating crow this season. Of course, I could be wrong....

I hope you are right bro, it is put up or shut up time IMO.

[CoachGeorge]

(06-18-2021, 04:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Jim Turner was one of the worst position coaches the Bengals 
Have ever had. Can you tell me what olinemen he has coached under his tutilidge that was even considered good?
He will never set foot in a NFL stadium again unless 
He is a fan.
Oh where is he at now??
Texas State.
Thats all.you need to know

He actually coached 5 players who were 1st round draft picks. He coached a line that won a Heisman Trophy, finished runner-up for the Joe Moore trophy given to the CFB best o-lines, and was the highest paid o-line coach in the country.

At Miami, he coached Ritchie Incognito (a middling vet) to his first pro bowl. He developed Maurkice Pouncey to his first pro bowl.

This board is really funny with all the hate. Paul Alexander is a greatly respected coach, to read this board you would think he was rank beginner. I’m not particularly impressed by Turner as a coach. But he was dealt a pretty bad hand with 2 retirements, all the injuries. the lack of talent and no training camp, etc.

[CoachGeorge]

(06-18-2021, 04:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think it has been a successful offseason, and I also believe Zac and Lou will have a lot of people eating crow this season. Of course, I could be wrong....

I think you are wrong but not for the reason you think of. This team has to jigsaw fit a ton a new pieces together and they have one of the toughest schedule in the toughest division to do that in. That’s a pretty tall order. I can just imagine all the howling on this board should the team only win 5 or 6 games. If the team progresses on offense and defense Zac will be back.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 04:01 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Here is where i have my problem.  So people want to say he's only had 2 off season's, and the first one was trying to win wiht Marvin's players.  

Well I think the 1st thing they did wrong was allow the hiring of someone who picked a defensive coordinator who wanted to play zone defense with a defense that played mostly man to man.  Hmmm wonder why that one didn't work. 

Then you bring in an offensive coordinator or sorry head coach who's never been an offensive coordinator in the NFL before and he wants to be head coach and the offensive coordinator.  Well again after 2 years we see how well that one's worked out for this team.  

I tend to agree with whomever said the biggest issues with this team are the OC, DC and you have to throw the head coach in there because he's the one who's stuck with Lou through his 2 shitty first years.  

Not lying, what TJ said here is all extremely valid. In herein my questions lie, lay, ly,  lol

Taylor not investigating the personnel, roster and his coaches and evaluating everything early is probably the reason 
his record is so bad. The excuse for the first season was the short Offseason cause he was in the Superbowl coaching, 
the excuse last year was covid and injuries etc.

Let alone keeping Lou around who has been terrible to say the least even with injuries it has been bad. You don't let
a team run on you for 400 yards, let alone one in your Division. 

Secondary has looked good under Lou though with terrible play in the trenches, I will give him that.

In the end though I like the players added especially where you win games.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 06:51 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I think you are wrong but not for the reason you think of.  This team has to jigsaw fit a ton a new pieces together and they have one of the toughest schedule in the toughest division to do that in.  That’s a pretty tall order. I can just imagine all the howling on this board should the team only win 5 or 6 games.  If the team progresses on offense and defense Zac will be back.

That is what I will be doing if that is the case...

Howling like a werewolf and drinking brewskies like a Nate usually does.

We need to win enough games to get into the Playoffs THIS season and win a game for him to be back IMO.

[impactplaya]

(06-18-2021, 06:44 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: He actually coached 5 players who were 1st round draft picks. He coached a line that won a Heisman Trophy, finished runner-up for the Joe Moore trophy given to the CFB best o-lines, and was the highest paid o-line coach in the country.  

At Miami, he coached Ritchie Incognito (a middling vet) to his first pro bowl. He developed Maurkice Pouncey to his first pro bowl.

This board is really funny with all the hate. Paul Alexander is a greatly respected coach, to read this board you would think he was rank beginner.  I’m not particularly impressed by Turner as a coach.  But he was dealt a pretty bad hand with 2 retirements, all the injuries. the lack of talent and no training camp, etc.

I should have rephrased my question. How many olinemen
Did Turner develop as a oline coach in all his years?
Richie Incognito was already a solid linenan before Turner
Got to him. His issue has always been between his ears
Pouncey was going to be good no matter who his oline
Coach was.he comes from.Good football stock.
I.just know when.Turner was the Bengals oline coach as
A unit the Bengals oline regressed.
I see none of the current oline is missing him

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 06:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I should have rephrased my question. How many olinemen
Did Turner develop as a oline coach in all his years?
Richie Incognito was already a solid linenan before Turner
Got to him. His issue has always been between his ears
Pouncey was going to be good no matter who his oline
Coach was.he comes from.Good football stock.
I.just know when.Turner was the Bengals oline coach as
A unit the Bengals oline regressed.
I see none of the current oline is missing him

I agree for the most part, the only OL that did not regress under Turner were just gaining their feet in Hop and Hart which was
most likely due to experience. I don't put much stock in PFF as everyone knows but if you look at a few of the players under Jim
Turner before he coached them and after they dropped like flies in their rankings. It is not a coincidence also that everyone on 
the team including the young Franchise QB are raving about Frank Pollack...

[BengalChris]

(06-18-2021, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would argue that the biggest problematic areas were OC and DC, not OL Coach and DL Coach. Both of those guys are still here doing the same job. That's like putting down new carpet down on rotting floor beams.

Also, isn't this Year 3 Offseason for Taylor? Or are we doing that thing where we pretend a guy is a "basically" a rookie for 3-4 years? Lol

That was my exact thought. Every time fans grant those Muligans years it's always a sign that failure is upon us. Ogbuehi and Ross were, of course, prime examples.

The simple fact is that if Taylor were any good at all this team would have performed better. It's taken him two full years to equal the 6 wins that got Marvin the ax. That's a pretty sad statement in and of itself.

For me, the idea that a Frank Pollack is going to come and save the team from an inept HC is just a fairy tale. Even if the running game turns around, there's no real sign that Taylor would even know what to do with a good running game. His fixation on a singular formation (11 personnel) shows an utter lack of vision and ability to adapt.

Maybe he'll change and improve, but so far its been one big step back, then a infant's micro step forward. Has the diaper boy learned to even walk yet?

 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2021, 07:13 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That was my exact thought. Every time fans grant those Muligans years it's always a sign that failure is upon us. Ogbuehi and Ross were, of course, prime examples.

The simple fact is that if Taylor were any good at all this team would have performed better. It's taken him two full years to equal the 6 wins that got Marvin the ax. That's a pretty sad statement in and of itself.

 

Still have to put some factors in your analysis of the guy and hope the light comes on for such a young Coach IMO.