Very Important Year for Jonah Williams

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-21-2021, 03:55 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: My opinion,I believe he is just not strong enough,does not have the muscle mass it takes to play at a very high level,he gets man-handled a ton and will get hurt again. some of these D-lineman are just huge and very strong and they push him around a ton.He is always being pushed off his position and has to continue to run around joe keeping the D from killing him. I would put someone else in the spot.LT is a premier Position.

Have you ever watched a Bengals game?

[Murdock2420]

(06-22-2021, 12:31 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Cannot argue that.... But what I will stand firm on is that Joey B deserves better and the Bengals should strive for better. JW deserves time and a 4-5 year window to get to that level. If not, I feel like a different solution should be found as that time frame ends.

That's been my complaint about things. If they were set on Chase then I wish they'd have gone harder on the line in FA. Get Reiff for 3 years if he is the plan, and I like Spain, he is decent but why do we always except decent with the cap space still available? Could have really upgraded the line like other teams did, get Reiff, sign a proven guard that wasn't a stopgap and I like Hopkins, but there were some good centers available in FA this off-season that would have been nice to add like Linsley.

Jonah, Zeitler, Linsley, Carman, Reiff would be a nice wall up front with XSF, Hopkins backing up the inside would still like to see a little more depth on the outside.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-22-2021, 10:01 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No doubt big year for Jonus needs to stay healthy and perform as a top end tackle or we could lead bengals to start thinking to make a change next year or 2.

Nick or Joe?

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-22-2021, 01:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: That's been my complaint about things. If they were set on Chase then I wish they'd have gone harder on the line in FA. Get Reiff for 3 years if he is the plan, and I like Spain, he is decent but why do we always except decent with the cap space still available? Could have really upgraded the line like other teams did, get Reiff, sign a proven guard that wasn't a stopgap and I like Hopkins, but there were some good centers available in FA this off-season that would have been nice to add like Linsley.

Jonah, Zeitler, Linsley, Carman, Reiff would be a nice wall up front with XSF, Hopkins backing up the inside would still like to see a little more depth on the outside.

One thing to consider (and there isn’t a way of really knowing as a fan) is that it takes two to tango. Who is to say they didnt reach out to Zietler and even offer a larger contract than the Ravens? There is a lot of factors for free agents and if winning and playoffs are important to a player, the Bengals might not be the right fit right now.

Let’s face it, Cincinnati is not an ideal destination for a lot of guys. It takes a LOT of money in some cases (see Waynes and Reader) to get these guys in the building. We are going to need money down the road for Bates, Joe Burrow and some other guys like Jonah/Higgins/Chase so we can’t go spend crazy.

IMO, Zac needs to prove that what he has built here can have sustainable success, then the free agents will be easier to land.

[Murdock2420]

(06-22-2021, 02:18 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: One thing to consider (and there isn’t a way of really knowing as a fan) is that it takes two to tango. Who is to say they didnt reach out to Zietler and even offer a larger contract than the Ravens? There is a lot of factors for free agents and if winning and playoffs are important to a player, the Bengals might not be the right fit right now.

Let’s face it, Cincinnati is not an ideal destination for a lot of guys. It takes a LOT of money in some cases (see Waynes and Reader) to get these guys in the building. We are going to need money down the road for Bates, Joe Burrow and some other guys like Jonah/Higgins/Chase so we can’t go spend crazy.

IMO, Zac needs to prove that what he has built here can have sustainable success, then the free agents will be easier to land.

This is true, it does take two, but have to think that the Bengals would be viewed along the same lines as the Chargers and they were able to get line help specifically Corey Linsley who left the Packers and their consistent success for a rookie HC and a 2nd year QB.

As for needing money later, with the big jump in the cap next season, there shouldn't be any issue getting extensions done. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-22-2021, 02:25 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This is true, it does take two, but have to think that the Bengals would be viewed along the same lines as the Chargers and they were able to get line help specifically Corey Linsley who left the Packers and their consistent success for a rookie HC and a 2nd year QB.

As for needing money later, with the big jump in the cap next season, there shouldn't be any issue getting extensions done. 

The Chargers were a fringe team last year (7-9) and may be seen in a different light than the Bengals. We also weren’t in the market for a center (unfortunately) which may have played a part in the Linsley signing.

There shouldn’t be problems with the extensions, but we know how Mike Brown operates.

[plantmanky]

(06-21-2021, 03:05 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Were you upset we didn't pick up Price's option?  What about Ogbuehi's?  (Fwiw, I'm not saying these are equal comparisons but I think it puts a hole in you "no matter what" argument.)

I don't think that because a player plays a particular position that they should be guaranteed an option year.  It should be a case by case basis.  Either they're worth the investment or they're not.  And if Williams misses more time I think it would be insane to fully guarantee his last two years of his deal, and to set his market at 11 mil + for 2023.

To each their own, but I think this dude has a lot to prove this year to warrant that type of commitment two years in advance. 

Good question!  Can we agree that Price should not have been a top pick?  Price's up side is he could be center or guard, but you could argue with his injury history, had you really seen enough to know for sure?  What's one more year?

Ogbuehi was a complete bust.  He was a stud in college, just never panned out after his injury. I can give you this one.  

In both case, I think you have to look at your roster and say, did we need them on the roster.  

A guess another way to look at it too is what could you get for that 11M cost?

[sandwedge]

(06-22-2021, 01:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: That's been my complaint about things. If they were set on Chase then I wish they'd have gone harder on the line in FA. Get Reiff for 3 years if he is the plan, and I like Spain, he is decent but why do we always except decent with the cap space still available? Could have really upgraded the line like other teams did, get Reiff, sign a proven guard that wasn't a stopgap and I like Hopkins, but there were some good centers available in FA this off-season that would have been nice to add like Linsley.

Jonah, Zeitler, Linsley, Carman, Reiff would be a nice wall up front with XSF, Hopkins backing up the inside would still like to see a little more depth on the outside.

I fail to understand what difference it makes how long Reiff's contract is? 1 yr or 3 yrs, does it make a difference? He's here. 
They invested in alot of positions on defense, I don't know if you remember last year, but if we'd went after overpayed Guards and Center, we'd be seeing guys like Sims and Rose playing and starting. 
PS, Zeitler was never gonna comeback.

[Murdock2420]

(06-23-2021, 01:34 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I fail to understand what difference it makes how long Reiff's contract is? 1 yr or 3 yrs, does it make a difference? He's here. 
They invested in alot of positions on defense, I don't know if you remember last year, but if we'd went after overpayed Guards and Center, we'd be seeing guys like Sims and Rose playing and starting. 
PS, Zeitler was never gonna comeback.

Two reasons it matters. The first is, you passed on a 5 year solution in round 1, so if Reiff is just a 1 year rental, we get to go through this crap again next offseason and wonder who plays RT. And before the usual crew comes around with "But he could be re-signed" yes, he could and if he plays well enough to be re-signed then you'll have competition from a bunch of other teams in a world where the salary cap jumps up a ton. So a bidding war or use the tag... sounds horrible.

The second reason is continuity. There has been other people in this very thread who have stated that continuity is important for OL success. Guys get used to the guy playing next to them and start to gel and play well with one another. So, we can look forward to potentially two new pieces again after this season if Reiff is gone, and Spain starts as he is on a 1 year as well. 

As to your last year comment... Had we over-paid guards, and not signed Waynes the D would have looked no different. The only difference would be that Burrow might have survived the season.

I think it was Shake who called it exactly what it is, "Kicking the can down the road." It needs to stop. 

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2021, 01:48 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think it was Shake who called it exactly what it is, "Kicking the can down the road." It needs to stop. 

Actually it is called "flexibility" and it is the exact same thing every other team in the league does.  Not one single team has all of their starters signed for the next 3 or 4 seasons.  Every team has players on one-year deals.

This is just an example of people fantasizing about what they whine about a year in advance.

[PDub80]

(06-22-2021, 01:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: That's been my complaint about things. If they were set on Chase then I wish they'd have gone harder on the line in FA. Get Reiff for 3 years if he is the plan, and I like Spain, he is decent but why do we always except decent with the cap space still available? Could have really upgraded the line like other teams did, get Reiff, sign a proven guard that wasn't a stopgap and I like Hopkins, but there were some good centers available in FA this off-season that would have been nice to add like Linsley.

Jonah, Zeitler, Linsley, Carman, Reiff would be a nice wall up front with XSF, Hopkins backing up the inside would still like to see a little more depth on the outside.

I 100% agree with you. I think the line you laid out would have been outstanding. I have to think that the Bengals O line FA plans blew up in their face in regards to OLine AND WR.

That being said, I don't HATE the O line they are showing at the moment. They are very young.

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2021, 03:48 PM)PDub80 Wrote:  I have to think that the Bengals O line FA plans blew up in their face in regards to OLine AND WR.

I realize you "have to" be negative, but who were the Bengals planning on getting at WR who was better than Chase?

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-23-2021, 05:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I realize you "have to" be negative, but who were the Bengals planning on getting at WR who was better than Chase?

They were in contact with Kenny Golladay.  If I recall correctly, it was reported he had a visit scheduled and that we made an offer.

[PDub80]

(06-23-2021, 05:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I realize you "have to" be negative, but who were the Bengals planning on getting at WR who was better than Chase?

Signing Golladay and they tried to trade AJ Green before last season for Deandre Hopkins.

Also, this idea that you have where I'm negative towards the Bengals is goofy AF. I have been SUPER positive towards them on a lot of things. And things where I see they are not doing well I point that out, too. And me saying that FA maybe didn't work out the way they wanted isn't me being negative towards the Bengals. It's being honest and realistic. That stuff that happened is the truth and us discussing it doesn't make anyone negative. Now, if I said they were trash or whatever because some FAs didn't jump on the Bengals bandwagon, then THAT would be negative.

I think you're just negative toward me and it's clouding your mind. I'm living rent free in that noggin of yours. Feel free to evict me at any time.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I think Jonah will play very good this season. Barring injury.

The dude is just so sound with his technique. Jonah could be a great OL wherever he is put.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-23-2021, 07:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Signing Golladay and they tried to trade AJ Green before last season for Deandre Hopkins.

Also, this idea that you have where I'm negative towards the Bengals is goofy AF. I have been SUPER positive towards them on a lot of things. And things where I see they are not doing well I point that out, too. And me saying that FA maybe didn't work out the way they wanted isn't me being negative towards the Bengals. It's being honest and realistic. That stuff that happened is the truth and us discussing it doesn't make anyone negative. Now, if I said they were trash or whatever because some FAs didn't jump on the Bengals bandwagon, then THAT would be negative.

I think you're just negative toward me and it's clouding your mind. I'm living rent free in that noggin of yours. Feel free to evict me at any time.

Lol, nice post man. You aren't negative to the team at all. You just never really liked Andy but that is alright.

He didn't win the big games and that is my problem with him as well. Thank God we got a guy at QB who I think can now.

Live rent free in that Fred noggin...

[*bfine32*]

(06-23-2021, 01:34 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I fail to understand what difference it makes how long Reiff's contract is? 1 yr or 3 yrs, does it make a difference? He's here. 
They invested in alot of positions on defense, I don't know if you remember last year, but if we'd went after overpayed Guards and Center, we'd be seeing guys like Sims and Rose playing and starting. 
PS, Zeitler was never gonna comeback.

I agree this stance perplexes me. we have Reif in house. If he works out we can re-sign and have the inside track;if not, we can cut bait.

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2021, 06:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They were in contact with Kenny Golladay. 

(06-23-2021, 07:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Signing Golladay 

Anyone who claims that the Bengals #1 plan in free agency was signing a WR for $18 million a year is completely clueless about how this team operates.

[Benton]

What would have been best in my opinion? Kick Jonah in to guard to try and preserve his career, draft/sign a starting tackle. Maybe in 5-6 years when he's had time to acclimate, Jonah could become the tackle he's capable of being.

What's likely? Dude goes on IR again this year, or has a full (but mediocre) season due to playing through injury.

If what's likely happens, then we should move on. Not because he isn't capable, but because it's the right thing to do. I was really pumped about Jonah (at least compared to our last few tackles), but if the guy gets injured by breathing, he's not cutting it. We need someone who can show up to work.

[Benton]

(06-23-2021, 01:34 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I fail to understand what difference it makes how long Reiff's contract is? 1 yr or 3 yrs, does it make a difference? He's here. 
They invested in alot of positions on defense, I don't know if you remember last year, but if we'd went after overpayed Guards and Center, we'd be seeing guys like Sims and Rose playing and starting. 
PS, Zeitler was never gonna comeback.

Realistically, we aren't SB bound next season.

Shocker, I know.

So... who is your tackle in 2022? Right now... nobody. There's no one on the roster capable of competing for a starting RT spot.

But wait, what if I'm optimistic? What if I think all we needed was one receiver to go to the SB?

OK. You've got Reiff. Who is the other T since you've got none on the roster who has started more than half a season? If Reiff is manning one side, who is anchoring 16+ games on the other side?