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**impactplaya** · 07-11-2021, 01:53 PM

I don't expect alot of replies cause some of you werent
Around then.
But after PB stepped down, were.these 2 coaches just basically
Figureheads and was PB still coaching the team from his position
As GM and Owner?
Kinda like in.the mafia when.you have a real.boss and a front boss

Its been.speculated over and over that Bill Walsh was the logical
Replacement when PB stepped down.
I think PB realized right away how innovative and
Intelligent Walsh was on the brink of being the next great
NFL head coach and would be harder to control

I wonder behind the scenes if PB regretted the hirings
Of Johnson and Rice hence neither coach got the Bengals
In the playoffs

**BengalFanInNJ** · 07-11-2021, 02:29 PM

I know the great things Paul Brown accomplished, not just for the Browns/Bengals, but football in general. He's a legend. However, I think it was his ego that prevented him from hiring Walsh instead of Johnson. Has to be one of the dumbest decisions ever. Goes to show that even legends make huge mistakes. You can't tell me this teams fortunes would have been a lot different had Walsh been named coach.

Ah, what might have been!!

**SunsetBengal** · 07-11-2021, 04:19 PM

Thanks for brining this topic up. I mentioned it in another thread, some time back. Someone way more in touch with early Bengals history than I, went onto explain that PB even went so far as to run down Walsh' name to other NFL owner, in an effort to keep him pigeonholed on the Bengals offensive staff.

I can't remember the exact details, so I'm hoping that my mentioning that, it will inspire someone with all of the details to share the complete story with us.

**impactplaya** · 07-11-2021, 05:14 PM

People forget PB was winless in the playoffs with
The Bengals and Marvin Lewis gets crucified for the same results

PB belongs on the MT.RUSHMORE of innovation with
The NFL. He won titles with Browns and gave us the Bengals

But after he left the Bengals , from 1976 to 1980
This team flounder under his questionable coaching
Hires and I think off memory bad 1st RD picks.Griffin, Brooks..etc..Thompson..I could be errorous

But now I see this team in another 5 year playoff drought
Too

**Truck_1_0_1_** · 07-11-2021, 05:46 PM

You watch too much television.

Actually, I can't think of a single piece of media that portrays the Mafia like that.

**impactplaya** · 07-11-2021, 06:19 PM

Thanks for your input its appreciated
My analogy is that PB hired Rice and Johnson
But at the end of the day he could have still been
Coaching from.his seat upstairs

In the mafia sometimes the real man in charge
Will lay in the shadows and let a front boss
Be the one that meets with the captains,
Settles any sit downs and delegates who oversees
The rackets.
But at the end of the day the front.boss gives the illusion
To the Feds and others ges pulling the strings

**BengalChris** · 07-11-2021, 06:26 PM

Paul Brown stepped down as head coach and he did turn over the coaching. Johnson and Rice were the head coaches, not figure heads.

As there is no such things "never made a mistake", it was definitely a mistake of large proportions to pass up on Walsh. He had him on the staff already.

Of course, not naming a GM prior to departing and thus setting the stage for son Mike appoint himself as the GM was another fairly large error.

But in all, Paul Brown has to be considered as the top or 2nd top innovator in the games' history. No one today, or even in the last 4 decades can contend for those lofty 2 spots. The top innovators, in my book, were Paul Brown and Sid Gilman. Walsh would be in the top 5 probably, but Walsh's trademark offense was developed under Brown in Cincinnati when Paul Brown was the head coach.

**impactplaya** · 07-11-2021, 06:33 PM

Obviously then.we didnt have the media coverage or internet
But Im.curious to find out the reasoning why Johnson
And Rice got HC gigs

Neither had a resume that spelled out being innovative
Rice to me seemed to be a pushover as a coach
Never really had the respect of the lockeroom
Well his record speaks for itself

Neither guys were ever HCs ever again

**BengalChris** · 07-11-2021, 06:45 PM

You know I live in Florida and have for quite a long time. You would think from the media coverage that we've been having more hurricanes than ever before. Yet, that is not true at all.

When I was a kid growing up in Springfield, I never heard anything about hurricanes actually happening. They were barely covered. Besides the only TV there was was a station out of Dayton, one out of Columbus and a local UHF PBS station. That was it.

Later when I was stationed in Biloxi Mississippi in 1979 the place got creamed by a hurricane. No one back home had even heard about it.

Point is, is that the media coverage back then was way, way less and not nearly as sensationalized as it is today.

Paul Brown picked this guy, so obviously he must be the best of the available guys. That's all you really had to hang your hat on. Few, if any, of the fans actually knew Walsh's contributions.

**impactplaya** · 07-11-2021, 07:06 PM

I.thought Walsh's contribution to those Bengals teams
Were well documented. Wasnt he the QBs coach then eventually the OC?

I know the roots of the WC offense was laid with those Otto Graham teams but from what Ive heard the WC really
Took shape under Walsh's guidance when he
Was a Bengals coach.

**BengalChris** · 07-11-2021, 11:05 PM

No the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense) came into being after Greg Cook [Otto Graham was up in Cleveland and gone by this time] had a career ending injury and the backup QB, Virgil Carter, didn't have a very strong arm. The team needed a way to open up the short passing game. It was a new system. Later Joe Montana was drafted by Walsh specifically for his latest version of this offense.

Today you don't see many new systems being developed. They all seem to be derivatives of existing systems.

Paul Brown was no slouch with the offensive schemes either. Here's a great article on how versatile Paul Brown could be.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/20160126_When_the_Browns_threw_zero_passes_-_and_beat_the_Eagles.html

**TheBengalsMind** · 07-12-2021, 07:32 AM

I have a video on Paul Brown if you would want to watch it.

To answer your question, no he wouldn't have been coaching for the coach.

He would have offered his advice and he would sometimes make draft decisions.

Like when Greg asked who he should start in 1981, after Anderson had a rough start, he asked Paul Brown who to start. Paul told him that Anderson handles adversity well and that's who he'd start. He took that advise and we nearly won a Super Bowl.

In the 1981 draft there were people that wanted Cris Collinsworth in the 1st. Paul took one look at his weigh in picture and said he'll be available in the 2nd. He was right.

But it cut him deep when Art Modell tried to coach and it greatly upset him when Art Modell would try to go over his head and he would have offered the same respect to his coach.

Kenny Anderson once asked Paul Brown why he selected Johnson over Walsh. He had offered it to Johnson to get him to join his staff. He kept his promise.

He did deny Bill Walsh interviews and would often tell other teams that he was crazy and didn't have "it" to be a coach.

He did it because he wanted to eventually give the job to Walsh. Which he knew he could never do if he left the team.

Should he have offered it to Walsh, yes. Should he have hid the fact that teams wanted him, no.

But Brown was loyal even to a fault sometimes and he knew talent when he saw it and that explains both of the situations.

At least that's how I take what I have heard and read about the situation.

**SladeX** · 07-12-2021, 08:10 AM

Reporting on behind the scenes matters was non existent, when it came to sports. My idea of what a GM was would have been AC Carlson. There was no draft show, unless the earliest incarnation of ESPN carried it, and even then you had to have cable. Most still didn't...

Tiger Johnson had some fire in his belly, at least. Even as a kid, I didn't get Homer rice. He was as inspiring as a lawn mower. If Droopy was a HC, you'd have Homer Rice.

**No-huddle Joe** · 07-13-2021, 10:07 AM

Just a quick google got me this article about Paul Brown and Bill Walsh......

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/12/20/18125052/when-paul-brown-resigned-as-head-coach-a-history-on-the-browns-week-16-opponent

***bengalfan74*** · 07-13-2021, 10:31 AM

Oh I absolutely think there was an element there from PB of wanting to stay in total control of the team so he went Johnson. He figured he could keep Walsh on as OC and put a yes man in at the top.

**TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes** · 07-15-2021, 10:32 AM

Zac Taylor is obviously a HC who calls plays but how common would that have been in the 1970s?
Is that a relatively recent trend?

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