Rule the Jungle

[*Nately120*]

This makes me think of the Cowboys, Raiders, and Jaguars with their gimmicky stadium experiences. Fun and all, but I don't recall stuff like that getting much legitimate approval from fans hardcore enough to talk off season on a message board.

I'm not sure those teams claim their atmosphere alterations show they are all about winning, though.

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-20-2021, 12:50 PM)PDub80 Wrote: What do we as fans personally get if the Bengals win? NOTHING. The answer is NOTHING... Unless you're a gambler and always pick the Bengals to win. In which case, you're just an idiot. Not for picking the Bengals, but for ALWAYS picking them to win. It's not going to happen.

I mean, this isn't true at all.  I don't how anyone couldn't understand that there's plenty of things people get out of their team winning.  If they truly got nothing out of then no one would watch or care.

How about satisfaction?  Entertainment?  Joy?  Happiness?

You ever seen a fan celebration after a Superbowl, or World Series, or Stanley Cup, or NBA Finals?  You ever seen fans high-fiving, or chanting, or cheering?  Does that look like "nothing" to you?

Are sports not entertainment?  What do you get out of a really good movie vs. a really bad movie?  Is it the same?  Did you get the same amount out of Paul Blart Mall Cop II as you did Goodfellas or Superbad or the Avengers or whatever it is you're into?

What do you get out of a really good album vs. a really bad album?  Is it the same?  Do get the same out of Ace of Base's 4th album as you do a Led Zeppelin/Stones/Floyd/Beatles album?

I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.  Fans should be happy regardless of outcome?  Is that what you're actually arguing?  And you're reasoning is because they're not getting paid so it doesn't matter?

Are you new to sports?  Do you understand entertainment?  Do you understand wanting a satisfying payoff for the time and money you commit to something?

What a weird thing to say.

[Whatever]

(07-20-2021, 11:23 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A few things to consider...

1.) The Two Superbowl appearances.  I don't think you're doing it justice when these are somewhat lost in the description of "3 playoff berths".  

The 2nd Super Bowl especially was noteworthy.  That team with their no-huddle offense, the Icky shuffle, their rap, they were culturally important.  I won't go so far as to say they're like the '85 Bears, or the 90's Cowboys or something like that.  But that was a very entertaining Super Bowl team.

2.) Not as much competition.  There of course was no FC Cincinnati.  UC football wasn't really a thing.  UC and XU basketball were in the dumps for most of the decade.  All you really had was Reds and Bengals.

3.) The economy/the cost.  The economy was strong through most of the decade.  Also, ticket prices (and parking, food, beer) were much more reasonable then.  Prices have been steadily rising ever since. 

Some people simply can't afford to go to a game anymore.  It would cost a family of 4 probably a minimum of $300 to go a single game and that doesn't even leave all that much for food and drinks.  You're talking over $500 dollars if everyone wants a couple things to eat and a drink, and dad has a few beers, and maybe you buy a souveneir.

4.) TV quality at home.  Back in the day most people had a 19 inch TV at home, now they most likely have a 50 inch tv at home.  In full high definition, with better sound quality and a TV broadcast that does a much better job of presenting the game.

I loved the '88 team as a kid, but there was a significant period in between the two SB teams where the club didn't do much.  I'm too young to remember the '81 squad, but I know the goodwill and fan pride from the '88 team didn't stretch 7-8 years into the lost decade.  Again, I think I'm just weird in that postseason accomplishments don't really play into my desire to watch a team play live.  I totally get people not buying tickets to a bad team.  I just don't get not buying tickets to a good team because of something that may or may not happen in the future.

Maybe from a sports perspective, but not when we're talking about entertainment dollars.  Back then, we were paying for movies in the theater and on VHS and buying albums because there was no streaming.  UC's sports relevance has also ebbed and flowed through the years.  Live events like pro wrestling and monster trucks were also huge back in '80's and a lot more popular than they currently are.

Economic issues are ones all teams share.  While the economy was better, there were also slot more single income families and stay at home moms.  The Bengals have some of the lowest ticket prices in the league and would logically be less affected by it as a result.  Cost of living is also very cheap in Ohio compared to most other NFL states.  Personally, I think a lot of families could budget $500 once a year to go to a game with a little forward planning.  I mean, pre-COVID, I went to the Rock on the Range/Sonic Temple music festivals every year and would spend $500-600 total between tickets, parking, food, drinks, and souvenirs over the 3 days, so $500 for a family of 4 doesn't seem too out of whack.

The tv experience, again, is something every team competes with.  It doesn't really explain away a team's comparitively bad ticket sales when compared to the rest of the league.

[Frank Booth]

(07-20-2021, 01:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, this isn't true at all.  I don't how anyone couldn't understand that there's plenty of things people get out of their team winning.  If they truly got nothing out of then no one would watch or care.

How about satisfaction?  Entertainment?  Joy?  Happiness?

You ever seen a fan celebration after a Superbowl, or World Series, or Stanley Cup, or NBA Finals?  You ever seen fans high-fiving, or chanting, or cheering?  Does that look like "nothing" to you?

Are sports not entertainment?  What do you get out of a really good movie vs. a really bad movie?  Is it the same?  Did you get the same amount out of Paul Blart Mall Cop II as you did Goodfellas or Superbad or the Avengers or whatever it is you're into?

What do you get out of a really good album vs. a really bad album?  Is it the same?  Do get the same out of Ace of Base's 4th album as you do a Led Zeppelin/Stones/Floyd/Beatles album?

I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.  Fans should be happy regardless of outcome?  Is that what you're actually arguing?  And you're reasoning is because they're not getting paid so it doesn't matter?

Are you new to sports?  Do you understand entertainment?  Do you understand wanting a satisfying payoff for the time and money you commit to something?

What a weird thing to say.

Bro

you dont get HYPED for corporate marketing?

whats wrong with you

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-20-2021, 12:50 PM)PDub80 Wrote: To those hating on this and with a dumpy attitude....

Why have a negative disposition towards fan involvement and outreach?

Personally, I enjoy being a Bengals fan regardless if they win or lose. I love the Bengals and, as long as they stay in the area I will continue to do so.

What do we as fans personally get if the Bengals win? NOTHING. The answer is NOTHING... Unless you're a gambler and always pick the Bengals to win. In which case, you're just an idiot. Not for picking the Bengals, but for ALWAYS picking them to win. It's not going to happen.


If pride is your answer I would suggest looking in the mirror and smacking yourself in the face like Vito Corleone slaps Johnny Fontane in the Godfather. "You can act like a man". A man who has his own successes and failures to tend to and actually have influence over. A man who has his own lot in life to financially grow and relationships to be your very best in. A man who doesn't allow another man's successes or failures to get him too high or too low because those are his and yours are yours. He can deal with the ramifications. YOU don't have to sweat them. YOU SWEAT YOURS. That's how life works.

Unless they are personally related to you, as a man (or woman), why on EARTH would you gain pride by another person's accomplishments... IN PROFESSIONAL ATHLETICS? Those are THEIR accomplishments that make them millionaires. You just watched them do it. Do you cheer for a chef as he makes himself a meal that only he gets to eat? Are you sad for the chef if they burn it? Do you cheer for a hedge fund manager as he crushes out another day making six figures an hour? Are you devastated for them if they lose their fortune by making bad trades? Does any of that actually ruin your day? NO... The answer to the above is NO. But, pro athletes? THAT'S a YES? 

^ Ask yourself this: Is Joe Burrow worried about you not filing your TPS reports properly? Answer: NO.... unless it directly affects his day. He is too busy working his butt off FOR HIS OWN ACCOMPLISHMENTS. He's not sweating your TPS reports to the degree it ruins his day, week, month, year.... because he has his own job to kick ass at. How's he going to do that if he's internalizing your TPS report screwups to the point it takes his eye off of what's important? Answer: He's NOT.

The Bengals are entertaining regardless of their W/L record. I still enjoy watching them. I still enjoy discussing them. I am still having exactly as much fun at the games as I do when they win as when they lose. I enjoy them on TV just the same as far as entertainment value goes. Hype them up if they win... make fun of them if they lose. It's reaaaaally that simple.

Because, if they win or lose, it matters naught. Our lives go on EXACTLY as they did before the game was played. We are not impacted for better or for worse, generally speaking. I'm a passionate fan, but that passion goes much much deeper than the surface of win/loss records. I want the Bengals to win and I enjoy when the Bengals win, but my life or happiness doesn't revolve around that. I'm a grown up with my own accomplishments and future personal successes I actually work towards.


Where are the Eagles fans attitudes at now after their SB win? Where were their attitudes a month after? They aren't any better off as a fan base when it comes to enjoying the Eagles because of a Superbowl run. My point is not that winning isn't enjoyable... It's that I cannot possibly understand how, after a long period of winning seasons and exciting games, the Bengals have to rebuild for a few years and it has people so triggered that they can't even enjoy the idea of fan outreach the Bengals are attempting. Did the letter come off as cheesy? Sure! But it was cheesy in a fun, caring way. The Bengals are turning a lot of new leaves and fan outreach is one of them. Why be upset? Fan outreach has ZERO to do with wins & losses...

Except that many of you bitching have stated you completely PASS on doing the ONE THING that you can to possibly influence the outcome of a game... ACTUALLY ATTEND THE GAMES AND CHEER/MAKE NOISE. That is such basic ***** behavior that it's insane to read. Cheap... lazy... crybabies. That is who the Bengals have turned some of you into. And it's a choice you make when instead you could listen to Vito Corleone and chose to be a man about it.

Get some damn perspective and go out to kick butt at YOUR day today and enjoy the Bengals win or lose.

I would say you're the one who needs to get some perspective, and quit taking things so personally.  There is absolutely no reason to be this defensive about people pointing out that they think a marketing ploy is cheesy.

If anyone cares too much about the Bengals it's you.  Why would you care this much about what other people think, especially if you believe you get nothing out of it?  Why do you feel like you have to defend the team and this marketing approach so much?

Look, I think most of us know by now that you're some sort of Superfan.  You were one of however many people (7?) got invited to the stadium to look at the new jerseys, and apparantely it was your idea for the throne.  So do you really expect us not to see right through this type of post?  Your feelings are hurt because someone said something that wasn't totally postive about your favorite thing in the world.  

If you want to be one of the biggest fan and you want to worship the ground Elizabeth Blackburn walks on, and you think food vouchers and canopy crazies are the most fun in the world, then that's perfectly fine.  But don't get on here lecturing people on caring too much, or not being right type of fan.

No one wants to read you call people cheap, or crybabies, or question their manhood.  And for what?  Cuz they think a statement about building an empire and kings and queens was cheesy?  Really?  This is literally maybe the most butthurt thing I've ever read. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2021, 01:24 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Bro

you dont get HYPED for corporate marketing?

whats wrong with you

It's fine for fans to be into this, but the bias is always amusing.  I mean, how many of us were impressed with the Jets having Fireman Ed or the Pittsburg Pirates having a goofy ass gimmick between every inning?

Gotta be a smart mark about stuff like this and not get too serious about it. 

[Whatever]

(07-20-2021, 01:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's fine for fans to be into this, but the bias is always amusing.  I mean, how many of us were impressed with the Jets having Fireman Ed or the Pittsburg Pirates having a goofy ass gimmick between every inning?

Gotta be a smart mark about stuff like this and not get too serious about it. 

Fireman Ed was hilarious.  In fact, Jets fans in general are hilarious.  I'll still YouTube the Kyle Brady draft just for laughs once in awhile.

[PDub80]

(07-20-2021, 01:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, this isn't true at all.  I don't how anyone couldn't understand that there's plenty of things people get out of their team winning.  If they truly got nothing out of then no one would watch or care.

How about satisfaction?  Entertainment?  Joy?  Happiness?

You ever seen a fan celebration after a Superbowl, or World Series, or Stanley Cup, or NBA Finals?  You ever seen fans high-fiving, or chanting, or cheering?  Does that look like "nothing" to you?

Are sports not entertainment?  What do you get out of a really good movie vs. a really bad movie?  Is it the same?  Did you get the same amount out of Paul Blart Mall Cop II as you did Goodfellas or Superbad or the Avengers or whatever it is you're into?

What do you get out of a really good album vs. a really bad album?  Is it the same?  Do get the same out of Ace of Base's 4th album as you do a Led Zeppelin/Stones/Floyd/Beatles album?

I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.  Fans should be happy regardless of outcome?  Is that what you're actually arguing?  And you're reasoning is because they're not getting paid so it doesn't matter?

Are you new to sports?  Do you understand entertainment?  Do you understand wanting a satisfying payoff for the time and money you commit to something?

What a weird thing to say.

It's 100% true. You get ZERO out of the Bengals winning except for a fleeting moment of joy. Basing that much of your joy off of another man's (whom you don't even know) accomplishments is GOOFY AF.

I get being excited that they win, but that's the only way to find joy in the Bengals? Are you at the game high fiving? Cheering? Helping influence the out come as the 12th man? NO? Where are you at? BW3s? A local sports bar? Your mom's basement? Great. You get to high five someone while watching someone else accomplish something. To quote Stuart Scott: Sound and fury signifying nothing. At least go to the game and do it where it makes sense and you can help, even in a minor way, influence the outcome you want.

GO TO THE GAMES. Her letter was for people who GO TO THE GAMES. Not salty, sad "fans" who piss and moan about wins and losses making their week or making them "proud". Proud of what? Someone else becoming a millionaire?

Fans should be entertained regardless of the outcome, YES. Happiness is in the eye of the beholder, though. Some people are happy seeing and smelling their own farts in a bath tub. Others go to Bengals games with a level head. Her letter is for the latter. Not the crybabies.

[PDub80]

(07-20-2021, 01:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's fine for fans to be into this, but the bias is always amusing.  I mean, how many of us were impressed with the Jets having Fireman Ed or the Pittsburg Pirates having a goofy ass gimmick between every inning?

Gotta be a smart mark about stuff like this and not get too serious about it. 

EXACTLY. This stuff should be fun. But the crybaby squad who hate on so much stuff the Bengals try and do is absurd. I don't agree with everything they do. Not at all. So far, I'm super unimpressed with what they have announced for club seat holders. As of today LAME.

Hell, Fred accuses me of ONLY being negative on the Bengals. Now people are saying I'm a Pollyanna towards them. Well, which is it?

[BFritz21]

I didn’t read all four pages so forgive me if this has been said, but everyone is always complaining about how the in-game experience and how it lacks so far behind to other stadiums, so we’re finally adding a little bit of fun and people are complaining?

It’s not HUGE changes that will make the experience amazing, but a little spice never hurt anything!

You know if this is successful, more additions like this will come and it will be even more enjoyable!

I love that changes are being made and let’s hope that changes in the actual football operations aren’t far behind!

[plantmanky]

(07-19-2021, 06:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I seriously doubt the Colts factor in even in the slightest. I’ve lived in Cincinnati my entire life, and I’ve never met a Colts fan here.

Im sure there are tons of Bengals and Colts fans that live just across the border in Indiana that more than likely made the choice to go watch Indy play than Cincy.  

[PDub80]

(07-20-2021, 01:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I would say you're the one who needs to get some perspective, and quit taking things so personally.  There is absolutely no reason to be this defensive about people pointing out that they think a marketing ploy is cheesy.

If anyone cares too much about the Bengals it's you.  Why would you care this much about what other people think, especially if you believe you get nothing out of it?  Why do you feel like you have to defend the team and this marketing approach so much?

Look, I think most of us know by now that you're some sort of Superfan.  You were one of however many people (7?) got invited to the stadium to look at the new jerseys, and apparantely it was your idea for the throne.  So do you really expect us not to see right through this type of post?  Your feelings are hurt because someone said something that wasn't totally postive about your favorite thing in the world.  

If you want to be one of the biggest fan and you want to worship the ground Elizabeth Blackburn walks on, and you think food vouchers and canopy crazies are the most fun in the world, then that's perfectly fine.  But don't get on here lecturing people on caring too much, or not being right type of fan.

No one wants to read you call people cheap, or crybabies, or question their manhood.  And for what?  Cuz they think a statement about building an empire and kings and queens was cheesy?  Really?  This is literally maybe the most butthurt thing I've ever read. 

- What I wrote wasn't about caring about the Bengals too much. It was about crying about wins and losses in the offseason in a thread about an attempt to be different in the marketing department.

- My post was not so much about what people think... It was addressing the crying by people who admittedly don't go to games... ABOUT SOMETHING FOR FANS AT THE GAME.

- I am 100% A ok if people don't like the throne. That is actually on topic and makes sense to bring into the thread. I am 100% ok with people who don't like the Bengals marketing efforts. That is on topic as well. The topic has nothing to do with wins and losses or "performance on the field". Yet here people are pissing and moaning about wins and losses.

- 1st of all, I don't worship anyone at the Bengals. 2nd of all, I hate the name Canopy Crazies. WTF is it not called the obvious Canopy Cats?

- I am not lecturing anyone who's on topic and I get the turn off of cheesy marketing copy. I think the food vouchers are ok, but won't apply to me. I already stated that the Bengals have laid out a next to nothing plan for their "higher end" season ticket holders.

BTW, even thought it isn't my situation, I am sympathetic to the costs of attending a game. This has nothing to do with money... although, tickets can be had for $40 now and are typically less on game day. That isn't some out of control cost to go cheer at a game... especially for fans so involved in following the Bengals they are on a message board. But I understand why some people either cannot go or it's cost prohibitive.

But I have no respect for anyone who cries like a baby about wins and losses IN A THREAT ABOUT the Bengals reaching out to fans by doing something different on game day. Get real with that nonsense. You're triggered over it, dude... in a thread about Bengals fan outreach, you're triggered over wins and losses where YOU DON'T WIN ANYTHING.

[PDub80]

(07-20-2021, 02:38 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I didn’t read all four pages so forgive me if this has been said, but everyone is always complaining about how the in-game experience and how it lacks so far behind to other stadiums, so we’re finally adding a little bit of fun and people are complaining?

It’s not HUGE changes that will make the experience amazing, but a little spice never hurt anything!

You know if this is successful, more additions like this will come and it will be even more enjoyable!

I love that changes are being made and let’s hope that changes in the actual football operations aren’t far behind!

EXACTLY!!!!

That's my whole thing. The Bengals are trying to move their needle at the stadium on game day and dudes come in tossing their salt all over the place on it. WTF is wrong with people?

[*Synric*]

(07-20-2021, 02:52 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I am 100% A ok if people don't like the throne. That is actually on topic and makes sense to bring into the thread. I am 100% ok with people who don't like the Bengals marketing efforts. That is on topic as well. The topic has nothing to do with wins and losses or "performance on the field". Yet here people are pissing and moaning about wins and losses.

It really doesnt affect me one way or another. 

I've always enjoyed my one game a year at PBS vs the Steelers it's about the football and food for us. Losing definitely doesnt diminish my experience as I've only see them win once since I started going in 2012. For us it's usually The Game, Price Hill Restaurant, and a hole in the wall bar.

[GodFather]

I guess the marketing train is just starting. I just saw the Bengals latest promotion for the 2021 season!

[Sled21]

It's ironic how the same people who are now bashing the "marketing gameday experience" are mostly the same ones who constantly complained about not having a Ring of Honor, which of course is a "marketing" device. It's as if they can't say the least little positive thing about anything Bengals. I swear, if they built a state of the art indoor facility tomorrow, you'd ***** about the color of the paint on the walls. 

[BFritz21]

(07-20-2021, 02:54 PM)PDub80 Wrote: EXACTLY!!!!

That's my whole thing. The Bengals are trying to move their needle at the stadium on game day and dudes come in tossing their salt all over the place on it. WTF is wrong with people?

EXACTLY!  

Like I said, it's not only doing something for the fans, but it's a step to modernize the franchise and maybe it even attracts free agents just by becoming more fan-friendly, so you know Mike Brown has nothing to do with it, so maybe changes to the way things are done are coming!

(07-20-2021, 03:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It's ironic how the same people who are now bashing the "marketing gameday experience" are mostly the same ones who constantly complained about not having a Ring of Honor, which of course is a "marketing" device. It's as if they can't say the least little positive thing about anything Bengals. I swear, if they built a state of the art indoor facility tomorrow, you'd ***** about the color of the paint on the walls. 

That's exactly what I said!

I was reading responses like "is this real life?"  

We're not saying that this will make us Super Bowl contenders, but they're improving the experience strictly for the fans and people are bitching?

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-20-2021, 03:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It's ironic how the same people who are now bashing the "marketing gameday experience" are mostly the same ones who constantly complained about not having a Ring of Honor, which of course is a "marketing" device.

Completely disagree about the Ring of Honor being a "marketing device."  It's something done to show appreciation for the efforts and accomplishments of former players.  It's right in the name, it's made to honor them.

I really don't think a Ring of Honor is something that's going to affect ticket sales much one way or another; nor do I think it should be done for marketing reasons.  It should be something you do to honor the past, and with no motivation other than being respectful, appreciative, and frankly, just nice.

I really don't think anyone who was ever upset we didn't have one was thinking "our marketing department stinks."  It's not about that at all.

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2021, 02:54 PM)PDub80 Wrote: EXACTLY!!!!

That's my whole thing. The Bengals are trying to move their needle at the stadium on game day and dudes come in tossing their salt all over the place on it. WTF is wrong with people?

This is 20+ years behind schedule and being implemented by a member of the Brown family.  That's why people are rolling their eyes at it, I'd wager. 

I used to work for the Cubs during their 113 year championship drought and one year my talking points to current and prospective ticket holders was a new mascot for the kids, family activities at the stadium, and better pizza.  The next year I got to tell them the Cubs hired Theo Epstein and Joe Maddon.  Guess which year got people to open their wallets.

Fun is nice, but winning is more fun than fun.  Then again the Cowboys haven't won crap in almost 30 years and their stadium is practically Disneyland with clubs and a mediocre football team as an added bonus. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-20-2021, 02:52 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - What I wrote wasn't about caring about the Bengals too much. It was about crying about wins and losses in the offseason in a thread about an attempt to be different in the marketing department.

- My post was not so much about what people think... It was addressing the crying by people who admittedly don't go to games... ABOUT SOMETHING FOR FANS AT THE GAME.

- I am 100% A ok if people don't like the throne. That is actually on topic and makes sense to bring into the thread. I am 100% ok with people who don't like the Bengals marketing efforts. That is on topic as well. The topic has nothing to do with wins and losses or "performance on the field". Yet here people are pissing and moaning about wins and losses.

- 1st of all, I don't worship anyone at the Bengals. 2nd of all, I hate the name Canopy Crazies. WTF is it not called the obvious Canopy Cats?

- I am not lecturing anyone who's on topic and I get the turn off of cheesy marketing copy. I think the food vouchers are ok, but won't apply to me. I already stated that the Bengals have laid out a next to nothing plan for their "higher end" season ticket holders.

BTW, even thought it isn't my situation, I am sympathetic to the costs of attending a game. This has nothing to do with money... although, tickets can be had for $40 now and are typically less on game day. That isn't some out of control cost to go cheer at a game... especially for fans so involved in following the Bengals they are on a message board. But I understand why some people either cannot go or it's cost prohibitive.

But I have no respect for anyone who cries like a baby about wins and losses IN A THREAT ABOUT the Bengals reaching out to fans by doing something different on game day. Get real with that nonsense. You're triggered over it, dude... in a thread about Bengals fan outreach, you're triggered over wins and losses where YOU DON'T WIN ANYTHING.

Yes, clearly I am the one who is triggered.  The guy who said people seem to enjoy a lot of this stuff, and she must be doing a good job because of that.  But that it just didn't exactly hit home with me.

But you?  You're not triggered at all, are you?  Nope.  Not one bit.

PS I would estimate I've been to around 75 Bengals games or so.  But if you want to pretend like I'm something else then feel free.  It's your show from here on out.  This conversation has ventured into Bannanaland.