Where is the Bates Extension?

[bengaloo]

They are most likely already working on a deal, but it has to be one they will both accept. I think they will get it done and hope they do soon. Bates is too good to let go and he seems to really like being a Bengal.

[jj22]

Bates on the other hand should wait for the market to reset. He has to be careful tho, as Safety isn't a priority for MB and I can't see them paying him top dollar (especially with the tag option).

[SadFaceBengal15]

Bet he walks that’d be a bengal move

[sandwedge]

(08-03-2021, 03:38 PM)bengaloo Wrote: They are most likely already working on a deal, but it has to be one they will both accept. I think they will get it done and hope they do soon. Bates is too good to let go and he seems to really like being a Bengal.

Tobin's comment makes believe they are working on it. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-03-2021, 03:42 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Bet he walks that’d be a bengal move

What star players have the Bengals let walk coming off of their rookie contract? I’ll wait…

[kevin]

(08-03-2021, 02:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well one there arent many high end players we let leave without at least offering a contract to.

They wont pay much more than the going rate for a top 5 saftey and they shouldnt need to.

IF Mike Brown was offering the going rate for a top safety, Bates would be signed already.  This is Mike Brown who on Montoya and 25 years later on Zeitler said to media both times, " Why Should I Pay A Guard ".  Mike Brown has often felt Safeties should be Low Paid.  Of course, in 30 years, Mike Brown has never won a play-off game, and CHEAPNESS comes into play.  Any Owner who does not value Guards or Safeties will NEVER WIN. 

Again, for 30 years I have been amazed by fans who defend Mike Brown and attack players and their agents, as if they are more worried about Mike Browns bank account than wanting Bengals to Win. Added to that insanity is the focus on The Draft a year away, and it is insane because if Mike Brown does draft a player as good as Bates, Mike Brown refuses to pay and keep good Draft Picks to long term veteran contracts. This makes The Draft pointless. Some may say Mike is a good businessman, but 30 years without a play-off win makes him No Paul Brown.

[Murdock2420]

(08-03-2021, 03:42 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Bet he walks that’d be a bengal move

He has literally said he wants to stay in Cincinnati...

I get being upset about the off-season and I get not thinking the team is going to make a huge jump (I'm still in the 6 to 7 win camp myself) but saying stuff like that is kinda anti-Bengal talk. If you are a fan of the team I'd have hoped by now you read some of the stuff posted around with quotes from Bates about wanting to be here. 

There is probably a lot of contract language to figure out with guaranteed money, years, front load versus back-loaded, bonuses for different things like All-Pro and Pro-Bowl. 

If we hit week 1 or 2 and don't have a deal, that's more concerning but even then they have the franchise tag.

[Murdock2420]

(08-03-2021, 09:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What star players have the Bengals let walk coming off of their rookie contract? I’ll wait…

John Ross 


But to be fair... Carl Lawson should have probably been handled differently. Granted, they got his replacement quickly, but would have been nice to see them get Carl signed before he hit the market and WJIII kinda fits in the same thing. Also Zeitler and Marvin Jones were allowed to leave without a 2nd contract.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-04-2021, 01:02 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: John Ross 


But to be fair... Carl Lawson should have probably been handled differently. Granted, they got his replacement quickly, but would have been nice to see them get Carl signed before he hit the market and WJIII kinda fits in the same thing. Also Zeitler and Marvin Jones were allowed to leave without a 2nd contract.

None of those guys were star players (which was the examples I asked for). Good players, sure, but not stars. Lawson is a good pass rusher but wasn’t even an every down DE until last year. He’s also always hurt. Jones was a very good #2 WR. Zeitler was a solid OG but hardly one of the best in the league, and certainly not worth the money he got. WJ3 was way too inconsistent, and never really lived up to his 1st round status outside of his first (limited) season.

I wouldn’t put any of them in the same category as Bates, who’s easily top 5 at his position atm (and should have certainly been a Pro Bowler). The fact is the Bengals usually retain their top players. So Sad Face’s comment about letting him walk would not indeed be a “very Bengals move.”

[Murdock2420]

(08-04-2021, 01:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: None of those guys were star players (which was the examples I asked for). Good players, sure, but not stars. Lawson is a good pass rusher but wasn’t even an every down DE until last year. He’s also always hurt. Jones was a very good #2 WR. Zeitler was a  solid OG but hardly one of the best in the league, and certainly not worth the money he got. WJ3 was way too inconsistent, and never really lived up to his 1st round status outside of his first (limited) season.

I wouldn’t put any of them in the same category as Bates, who’s easily top 5 at his position atm (and should have certainly been a Pro Bowler). The fact is the Bengals usually retain their top players. So Sad Face’s comment about letting him walk would not indeed be a “very Bengals move.”

I called him out on it too, especially when you look at the comments from Bates about wanting to be here. I'm not sure if there has been a player who said "I want to be here" and then was left unsigned.

But there have been very good bordering on star players who were allowed to leave here without a 2nd contract, none of them however came out and said they wanted to be here that I recall. 

[jj22]

I'll believe MB paying a Safety corner money when I see it.

Only optimism deal gets done is that Burrow is on a rookie contact, and we have no other contracts coming up which works in Bates favor.

However it should be a sign of changing times to see MB pay a Safety corner money (that would be like him paying a guard, tackle money).

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-03-2021, 09:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What star players have the Bengals let walk coming off of their rookie contract? I’ll wait…

Jonathan Joseph 
Jermaine Gresham (He was never the same after he played through that back injury, though.)
Takeo Spikes

Do you count Justin Smith? He got franchise tagged after his rookie contract, and walked right after that.

Marvin Jones and Kevin Zeitler probably fall short of the requirements. I do wonder a bit if being with the Bengals contributed to them not being stars.

I do agree with your general point, but once you asked the question then I was curious to the answer.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-04-2021, 11:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Jonathan Joseph 
Jermaine Gresham (He was never the same after he played through that back injury, though.)
Takeo Spikes

Do you count Justin Smith? He got franchise tagged after his rookie contract, and walked right after that.

Marvin Jones and Kevin Zeitler probably fall short of the requirements. I do wonder a bit if being with the Bengals contributed to them not being stars.

I do agree with your general point, but once you asked the question then I was curious to the answer.

Justin Smith was actually one I maybe considered. Having to go all the way back to the mid 00’s for a good example kind of proves my point though.

Basically I see a lot of good players being mentioned, but not star players by any means. The AJ’s, Geno’s, Whit’s, Chad’s, etc were always given 2nd contracts. I’m not worried about Bates. They’ll get it done.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-04-2021, 11:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Justin Smith was actually one I maybe considered. Having to go all the way back to the mid 00’s for a good example kind of proves my point though.

Basically I see a lot of good players being mentioned, but not star players by any means. The AJ’s, Geno’s, Whit’s, Chad’s, etc were always given 2nd contracts. I’m not worried about Bates. They’ll get it done.

Yeah, as I said, I agreed with your general point. My post was more one of curiosity than anything.

I don't know, man. I think anyone that's a 2x+ Pro Bowler qualifies as a star. That's pretty hard for NFL players to do. Plus if you raise the requirements any higher than that, you go into the reality that the Bengals haven't let any stars leave after their rookie contracts because they basically have only ever had 4 over the last 30 years. (I think the Bengals have only had 9 guys start their careers with the Bengals and go to 3+ Pro Bowls in their career in the entire Mike Brown era. AJ, Geno, Whit, Chad, Carson, Dalton, Willie, Dillon, and J Smith.)

[*ochocincos*]

Simmons just signed a 4-year, $61 mill contract with DEN, and Bates is arguably better than him, so he's probably seeking a similar or better deal.

Do you see the Bengals being willing to make Bates the highest-paid safety in the league? I'm not sure I see it, even though I would personally do it.

[XenoMorph]

(08-04-2021, 11:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Jonathan Joseph 
Jermaine Gresham (He was never the same after he played through that back injury, though.)
Takeo Spikes

Do you count Justin Smith? He got franchise tagged after his rookie contract, and walked right after that.

Marvin Jones and Kevin Zeitler probably fall short of the requirements. I do wonder a bit if being with the Bengals contributed to them not being stars.

I do agree with your general point, but once you asked the question then I was curious to the answer.

Jonathan Joseph was offered basically the same contract he took from the texans 

TAkeo wanted out
Gresham was disappointing at the time he was released.

MArvin jones was offered a contract similar to what he received but wanted to be a #1
Zeitler got overpaid which is why he was traded and released during that contract.

Justin smith i think was one of the Unfortunate scenerios of we paid the wrong guys as we just invested big money into both our OTs i believe the year we let him walk

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-04-2021, 02:30 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Jonathan Joseph was offered basically the same contract he took from the texans 

TAkeo wanted out
Gresham was disappointing at the time he was released.

MArvin jones was offered a contract similar to what he received but wanted to be a #1
Zeitler got overpaid which is why he was traded and released during that contract.

No he wasn't. Signing bonuses and guaranteed money are big deals and big differences.

Ok? That wasn't the question if he wanted out or not.

Gresham wasn't released, he hit FA, and he was disappointing because he needed back surgery and the Bengals medical staff was incompetent and had him keep playing.

No he wasn't. Signing bonuses and guaranteed money are big deals and big differences.

Never said Zeitler wasn't overpaid. I didn't want him signed at that price either, but again, that's not the question that was asked.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-04-2021, 02:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Simmons just signed a 4-year, $61 mill contract with DEN, and Bates is arguably better than him, so he's probably seeking a similar or better deal.

Do you see the Bengals being willing to make Bates the highest-paid safety in the league? I'm not sure I see it, even though I would personally do it.

Do it, he could very well end up being the best Safety in the league, so why not?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-04-2021, 03:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Do it, he could very well end up being the best Safety in the league, so why not?

What do you lose by waiting 1 more year to find out? The Broncos signed Simmons after tagging him for the 2nd year in a row. It clearly didn't ruin their relationship. Would love to see 1 more year out of Bates before paying him as the highest paid S in the league.

Also there's going to be a huge hangup on the guaranteed money. Simmons got $32.1m guaranteed at signing. The Bengals probably won't ever match that. Reader got $20.25m, Dalton got $17m, Hendrickson got $16m, Waynes got $15m, Boyd got $11m... Atkins got $15m and $17m and Dunlap got $11.7m and $10m.

The only one I can find higher than Reader's $20.25m is AJ Green who got $26.75m. That was after going 4/4 on Pro Bowls and having 2 2nd Team All-Pros.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-04-2021, 03:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What do you lose by waiting 1 more year to find out? The Broncos signed Simmons after tagging him for the 2nd year in a row. It clearly didn't ruin their relationship. Would love to see 1 more year out of Bates before paying him as the highest paid S in the league.

Also there's going to be a huge hangup on the guaranteed money. Simmons got $32.1m guaranteed at signing. The Bengals probably won't ever match that. Reader got $20.25m, Dalton got $17m, Hendrickson got $16m, Waynes got $15m, Boyd got $11m... Atkins got $15m and $17m and Dunlap got $11.7m and $10m.

The only one I can find higher than Reader's $20.25m is AJ Green who got $26.75m. That was after going 4/4 on Pro Bowls and having 2 2nd Team All-Pros.

Eh, Jessie isn't the best Safety in the NFL right now but I think he will be, that's why. I understand your thought but it is better to 
pay the man like we did Hubbard before he makes the strides you expect. Bates is tearing it up in TC right now and will become a 
better tackler as we all know is his main weakness. I say pay the man who wants to be a Bengal while he still does and it ensures 
we have a top Safety for years to come then we can focus on other things and not have to worry about Safety for a bit.