The Ja'Marr Chase Thread

[bengaloo]

(08-23-2021, 05:01 PM)Joelist Wrote: Part of what needs to start to happen is they need to call more runs. If you look at the last game the playcalling in the first half was pretty pass happy and in the second half we ran rather more often. If we want to run effectively we need to do it often enough for the backs and the line to get into a groove.

Yes, please run more. That is truly what the offense needs and has needed most of all since Mixon's last 1000 yard season. It protects Burrow, opens up the pass, chews the clock. Its really overall an effective way to become a good offense. I dont care who we draft where just protect the QB and run the ball better and we'll be the shit with all the talent we have.


Btw good to hear Chase bounced back today in practice and had some great catches. Hope it continues, but more than anything, I hope Mixon wins the rushing title this year. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-23-2021, 05:01 PM)Joelist Wrote: Part of what needs to start to happen is they need to call more runs. If you look at the last game the playcalling in the first half was pretty pass happy and in the second half we ran rather more often. If we want to run effectively we need to do it often enough for the backs and the line to get into a groove.

(08-23-2021, 05:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Yes, please run more. That is truly what the offense needs and has needed most of all since Mixon's last 1000 yard season. It protects Burrow, opens up the pass, chews the clock. Its really overall an effective way to become a good offense. I dont care who we draft where just protect the QB and run the ball better and we'll be the shit with all the talent we have.


Btw good to hear Chase bounced back today in practice and had some great catches. Hope it continues, but more than anything, I hope Mixon wins the rushing title this year. 

These two posts are superb! A balanced offense is always best.

[KillerGoose]

(08-23-2021, 04:37 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL.

Needing Burrow to throw 60 times a game because the running game didn't get going really worked out well for them last year.

The Joe Burrow led Bengals won two games last year. One win can be attributed to Burrow, the other was mostly Mixon.

Yes. EVERYONE is (rightfully) screaming to protect Burrow. It's just that some of us know that there is more than one way.

The Bengals were averaging roughly 43 attempts per game last year. That would have been right around the top of the league, up there with Dallas who was calling a lot of pass plays. Getting the exact number of pass plays called is hard because you have to account for not only sacks, but scrambled as well.

That number is a little high, but averaging somewhere in the realm of 37-40 attempts is probably where you want to be and likely where we WILL be. The best offense is a strong passing offense. Look at the Chiefs, who had a pass/run ratio of 62/38. Or the Buccaneers, who had a pass run ratio of 64/36. Seahawks had a 60/40 split, Buffalo had a 61/39 split. In fact, most of the league is running this type of split, save for a few teams.

All of these teams had QBs averaging in the realm of 37-40 attempts because that’s the best way to move the ball down the field. Cincinnati is also built like many of those teams, with the addition of Chase. If Burrow is the real deal and they can keep him upright when he throws the ball, then the offense is set up very nicely.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-23-2021, 05:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They didn't get sacked much because as starters they only played 2 or 3 drives in 3 games.

Carr threw 34 attempts (plus the sack, so 35 passing plays) in 2005. 
Meanwhile in the regular season he was sacked 68 times on 423 attempts (so 491 passing plays).

1 sack per 35 passing plays in preseason.
1 sack per 7.2 passing plays in regular season.

He should have been sacked 5 times in preseason according to the regular season rate.

- - - -
Dalton threw 25 attempts (plus the sack, so 26 passing plays) in 2016.
Meanwhile in the regular season he was sacked 41 times on 563 attempts (so 604 passing plays).

1 sack per 26 passing plays in preseason.
1 sack per 14.7 passing plays in regular season.

Dalton threw 28 attempts in 2019.
Meanwhile in regular season he was sacked 39 times on 528 attempts (so 567 passing plays).

0 sacks in 28 attempts in preseason.
1 sack per 14.5 passing plays in regular season.

In both of those preseasons he should have been sacked about 2 times per the rate.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-23-2021, 05:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals were averaging roughly 43 attempts per game last year. That would have been right around the top of the league, up there with Dallas who was calling a lot of pass plays. Getting the exact number of pass plays called is hard because you have to account for not only sacks, but scrambled as well.

That number is a little high, but averaging somewhere in the realm of 37-40 attempts is probably where you want to be and likely where we WILL be. The best offense is a strong passing offense. Look at the Chiefs, who had a pass/run ratio of 62/38. Or the Buccaneers, who had a pass run ratio of 64/36. Seahawks had a 60/40 split, Buffalo had a 61/39 split. In fact, most of the league is running this type of split, save for a few teams.

All of these teams had QBs averaging in the realm of 37-40 attempts because that’s the best way to move the ball down the field. Cincinnati is also built like many of those teams, with the addition of Chase. If Burrow is the real deal and they can keep him upright when he throws the ball, then the offense is set up very nicely.

43 per game would be the 3rd most pass attempts made by a QB in a single season in NFL history.

42 (which is where my numbers had the Bengals under Burrow through 9.5 games) would be the 6th most in NFL history.

No matter how you want to spin it, it's not a good amount. Of the top-10 attempt seasons by a QB (it's actually 11 QBs, two are tied for 10th), 7 of them didn't make it to the playoffs, and 10 of them failed to win a single playoff game. The only one to win one was Peyton Manning in 2013 and he's one of the two tied for 10th.

[KillerGoose]

(08-23-2021, 07:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 43 per game would be the 3rd most pass attempts made by a QB in a single season in NFL history.

42 (which is where my numbers had the Bengals under Burrow through 9.5 games) would be the 6th most in NFL history.

No matter how you want to spin it, it's not a good amount. Of the top-10 attempt seasons by a QB (it's actually 11 QBs, two are tied for 10th), 7 of them didn't make it to the playoffs, and 10 of them failed to win a single playoff game. The only one to win one was Peyton Manning in 2013 and he's one of the two tied for 10th.

Oh, I agree with you. I mentioned that those numbers were a little high and I think we should end up between 37-40.

[SladeX]

(08-22-2021, 10:17 PM)Stewy Wrote: Nope.  Don't have to deal with it.  It's why I liberally use the ignore function.

I've never used the ignore feature, and never will. I think it's weak.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-23-2021, 04:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hindsight. Ossai could of been a first rounder, same with Carman. Love all our picks so far. Ossai falling to the 3rd was just crazy, major steal and he blew up Brady and the Champs. Pass rush was needed just as much as OL. We need to add another DE besides Noah Spence now.

Well, you're picking the tail end of a conversation and considering your last line of the post, I find your input to be kind of in between ironic and hypocritical. 

My initial comment was about Chase's poor pre-season and camp along with him being overhyped. I mentioned that they missed out on a big opportunity to secure an entire position group that was a glaring weakness, essentially for at least the rest of Burrow's rookie contract.

Then Cosmo wrongly accused me of being on team Sewell when I've been "trade down to pick up early picks to grab multiple o-linemen" for two years now . . . yes that's correct. I didn't want to watch Burrow waste his career in Cincinnati. I've said for years . . . I really like what they're doing up in Buffalo. Build the team, then add the young QB.


In 2020, I wanted to trade down to #8(Carolina was the highest spot asking for a trade) and then trade down again to the late teens/early 20s, both times picking up 2021 #1 picks. I wanted several O-line in 2020. I would have extended Dalton through 2022, use much of the built up draft capital from the 2020 trade downs in 2021 to either select your QB or trade up to get your guy. Let him sit for at least 2021 behind Dalton while the o-line is already improved for Joe Mixon. If the young QB "gets it" ala Palmer, keep Dalton for one year in the Kitna role or just trade him to a team that wants him right away.

They drafted Joe Burrow and followed that up by drafting Tee Higgins. Two great players . . . team still sucked and the biggest problem area got bigger, leading to bad injury #1 of Burrow's career.

Quote:If you ignore the DL and go all in on the OL you will still suck and it won't matter.

Did you expect playoffs this season? I don't. And I never bought into the "No pass rush" line. I bought into "Their CBs suck at zone and give too much cushion". I saw very few passes by the opponent where the QB sat back there in the pocket going through their progressions. I saw LOTS of passes by the opponents that went straight to the #1 WR option and the DL had little to no time to get to the QB. Kahlil Mack, Von Miller and Lawrence Taylor in their primes wouldn't have done much to the opposing QBs with Cincy's 2020 DB group. Look at all of those pressures and knockdowns by Lawson and so few sacks. You may see it differently, that it was the DL more than the DBs, and that's fine, but this team has needed OL starters and depth more than anything for a few years now.

Quote:Chase and Carman are just adapting, Carman is rounding into form and was pancaking dudes Friday.

D'Ante Smith played like a stud against Tampa. Trey Hill has one hell of an anchor. We brought in Riley Reiff.

The OL has not been the problem so far and evidently you haven't been paying attention.

Two non-sucking pre-season games does not mean that it's a good o-line. The OL depth is still sketchy at best and almost non-existent at T. Adding one FA RT only upgraded the starting position. That's still a waiver wire pick up as your first T off the bench. They can be better than last year and still suck. Run blocking is still weak.

Quote:If all you want to do is ***** about something you know nothing about okay...

Yeah. Irony. Watching this franchise make obvious mistakes and not learn from them isn't frustrating at all. Like paying a RB big money only to not put an o-line in front of him. Drafting a QB #1 OA while having one of the worst o-lines in the game and following that up by drafting a WR with the next pick. That's not winning football.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-23-2021, 05:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals were averaging roughly 43 attempts per game last year. That would have been right around the top of the league, up there with Dallas who was calling a lot of pass plays. Getting the exact number of pass plays called is hard because you have to account for not only sacks, but scrambled as well.

That number is a little high, but averaging somewhere in the realm of 37-40 attempts is probably where you want to be and likely where we WILL be. The best offense is a strong passing offense. Look at the Chiefs, who had a pass/run ratio of 62/38. Or the Buccaneers, who had a pass run ratio of 64/36. Seahawks had a 60/40 split, Buffalo had a 61/39 split. In fact, most of the league is running this type of split, save for a few teams.

All of these teams had QBs averaging in the realm of 37-40 attempts because that’s the best way to move the ball down the field. Cincinnati is also built like many of those teams, with the addition of Chase. If Burrow is the real deal and they can keep him upright when he throws the ball, then the offense is set up very nicely.

Winning teams . . . usually have a good o-line. I would have no problem seeing Burrow throw 60 times a game if he wasn't running for his life on 30 of the snaps.

[KillerGoose]

(08-23-2021, 07:53 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Winning teams . . . usually have a good o-line. I would have no problem seeing Burrow throw 60 times a game if he wasn't running for his life on 30 of the snaps.

And I absolutely agree with you. I’m all for the trenches being elite. Maybe I was just misreading your post that I responded to. I thought you were saying you didn’t like the fact that Joe was throwing as often as he was. I do agree that he was throwing a little too much, but I think a split of 60/40 pass/run (roughly) is going to be the right path for this offense.

Either way, I think we are in the same page. That OL, especially pad blocking, needs to be up to snuff.

[Stewy]

(08-23-2021, 07:39 PM)SladeX Wrote: I've never used the ignore feature, and never will. I think it's weak.

I have several sarcastic and snarky remarks I could share, but they're being drowned out by my resounding laughter.    Keep up the good fight Mr. Internet StrongMan.  *rawr*

[*bfine32*]

(08-23-2021, 09:17 PM)Stewy Wrote: I have several sarcastic and snarky remarks I could share, but their being drowned out by my resounding laughter.    Keep up the good fight Mr. Internet StrongMan.  *rawr*

me2

[Nicomo Cosca]

Grammar policing, purposely saying other members name’s wrong in order to antagonize…

delightful thread.

[*bfine32*]

(08-23-2021, 09:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Grammar policing, purposely saying other members name’s wrong to in order to antagonize…

delightful thread.

Why don't you make like Ja'Marr Ross and just drop it..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-23-2021, 09:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why don't you make like Ja'Marr Ross and just drop it..

https://youtu.be/zL__p9aQqBI

[Stewy]

(08-23-2021, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: me2

thanks!  I'd blame the wine, but I've always been horrible at grahmmyr and scheppellyn.

[Stewy]

(08-23-2021, 09:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Grammar policing, purposely saying other members name’s wrong in order to antagonize…

delightful thread.

The thread hasn't devolved....it's been this way since day 1.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-23-2021, 05:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It is worth noting that in 2019, when he got sacked 37 times in just 13 games, Dalton got sacked 0 times in Preseason. In 2016 when he was sacked 41 times in 16 games, he was only sacked 1 time in preseason. In 2005, when David Carr got sacked 68 times, he only got sacked 1 time in preseason despite playing in all 4 games.

It kind of just goes back to the whole "preseason means nothing" bit. The Lions went 4-0 in the preseason they year they went 0-16.

The only thing that matters is improvement.

It is encouraging. That OL was terrible 2 years in a row in Preseason and looks noticeably better this Preseason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-23-2021, 07:47 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well, you're picking the tail end of a conversation and considering your last line of the post, I find your input to be kind of in between ironic and hypocritical. 

My initial comment was about Chase's poor pre-season and camp along with him being overhyped. I mentioned that they missed out on a big opportunity to secure an entire position group that was a glaring weakness, essentially for at least the rest of Burrow's rookie contract.

Then Cosmo wrongly accused me of being on team Sewell when I've been "trade down to pick up early picks to grab multiple o-linemen" for two years now . . . yes that's correct. I didn't want to watch Burrow waste his career in Cincinnati. I've said for years . . . I really like what they're doing up in Buffalo. Build the team, then add the young QB.


In 2020, I wanted to trade down to #8(Carolina was the highest spot asking for a trade) and then trade down again to the late teens/early 20s, both times picking up 2021 #1 picks. I wanted several O-line in 2020. I would have extended Dalton through 2022, use much of the built up draft capital from the 2020 trade downs in 2021 to either select your QB or trade up to get your guy. Let him sit for at least 2021 behind Dalton while the o-line is already improved for Joe Mixon. If the young QB "gets it" ala Palmer, keep Dalton for one year in the Kitna role or just trade him to a team that wants him right away.

They drafted Joe Burrow and followed that up by drafting Tee Higgins. Two great players . . . team still sucked and the biggest problem area got bigger, leading to bad injury #1 of Burrow's career.
Did you expect playoffs this season? I don't. And I never bought into the "No pass rush" line. I bought into "Their CBs suck at zone and give too much cushion". I saw very few passes by the opponent where the QB sat back there in the pocket going through their progressions. I saw LOTS of passes by the opponents that went straight to the #1 WR option and the DL had little to no time to get to the QB. Kahlil Mack, Von Miller and Lawrence Taylor in their primes wouldn't have done much to the opposing QBs with Cincy's 2020 DB group. Look at all of those pressures and knockdowns by Lawson and so few sacks. You may see it differently, that it was the DL more than the DBs, and that's fine, but this team has needed OL starters and depth more than anything for a few years now.
Two non-sucking pre-season games does not mean that it's a good o-line. The OL depth is still sketchy at best and almost non-existent at T. Adding one FA RT only upgraded the starting position. That's still a waiver wire pick up as your first T off the bench. They can be better than last year and still suck. Run blocking is still weak.
Yeah. Irony. Watching this franchise make obvious mistakes and not learn from them isn't frustrating at all. Like paying a RB big money only to not put an o-line in front of him. Drafting a QB #1 OA while having one of the worst o-lines in the game and following that up by drafting a WR with the next pick. That's not winning football.

I got to yah, I see. The OL and DL are noticeably better if you haven't noticed. I am not a hypocrite.

Where the hell do you get that from what I said? Patrick is running great behind Carman and the boys.

We just had a couple penalties early in the game that put us in a bad spot. Just basic common observations.

The trenches have played very decent against the 2 best trench teams in the NFL in our first 2 preseason games.

This is a start for winning football. 

[SladeX]

(08-23-2021, 09:17 PM)Stewy Wrote: I have several sarcastic and snarky remarks I could share, but they're being drowned out by my resounding laughter.    Keep up the good fight Mr. Internet StrongMan.  *rawr*

If you don't want to further devolve the thread that's cool, pm me your best stuff. I love humor, even at my expense.