Billy Price Is Rocketing Up The Depth Chart!

[Sled21]

(08-27-2021, 10:20 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Personally, i don't think the majority of the blame goes on the players.  The offensive line plays better in some system than others.  My guess is Frank Pollacks blocking scheme is more of a fit for the players on the OL than Jim Turners was.  

Which in turn, why hire a OL coach who's system doesn't fit his personnel?  I had the same question for the DC.  Why hire a DC who's known for zone defense when you have mostly players that have played man defense with some zone mixed in.

Two massive hiring mistakes by a very inexperienced head coach who maybe has finally learned his lesson.  Otherwise, we're in for a long year. 

Because now that he has his players in place, the defense so far is looking excellent. We'll see if it holds up throughout the season.

[TJ528]

(08-27-2021, 11:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Because now that he has his players in place, the defense so far is looking excellent. We'll see if it holds up throughout the season.

I mean it took 3 years to get his type of players in place so yea I'd hope that defense is better this year.  If it isnt then his ass needs to be driven to CVG and given a first class ticket to anywhere but Cincy lol

However, I mean if you're willing to give Lou 3 years to work and get the pieces he needs on defense shouldn't you've done that with Turner on the OL?  I mean the dude only got 2 years and Lou's defense the last 2 years was just as a bad as the OL.  

To be fair to Turner, Lou has had $200 million invested in his defense so again it better be good.  What's Turner get? Spain? Hart?  

[Sled21]

(08-27-2021, 11:19 AM)TJ528 Wrote: I mean it took 3 years to get his type of players in place so yea I'd hope that defense is better this year.  If it isnt then his ass needs to be driven to CVG and given a first class ticket to anywhere but Cincy lol

However, I mean if you're willing to give Lou 3 years to work and get the pieces he needs on defense shouldn't you've done that with Turner on the OL?  I mean the dude only got 2 years and Lou's defense the last 2 years was just as a bad as the OL.  

To be fair to Turner, Lou has had $200 million invested in his defense so again it better be good.  What's Turner get? Spain? Hart?  

Well, actually this is just starting his year 3, right? But you're right, I give new coaches/co-ordinators 3 years to get their players and implement the system they want. If they can't do it in 3, then I'm fine with letting them go. As for the Turner comparison, no, I don't equate a position coach, who coaches a position with a Coordinator who implements a system and works with the HC. If a line coach can't teach a lineman to block to fit a system, then they are not a good coach. Sure, some players are more capable of playing in a certain system, but I think that applies more to skill positions. Linemen do two thing, pass block and run block. By the time they get to this level, a line coach should be able to get them to play no matter what the system is.

[KillerGoose]

(08-27-2021, 10:20 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Personally, i don't think the majority of the blame goes on the players.  The offensive line plays better in some system than others.  My guess is Frank Pollacks blocking scheme is more of a fit for the players on the OL than Jim Turners was.  

Which in turn, why hire a OL coach who's system doesn't fit his personnel?  I had the same question for the DC.  Why hire a DC who's known for zone defense when you have mostly players that have played man defense with some zone mixed in.

Two massive hiring mistakes by a very inexperienced head coach who maybe has finally learned his lesson.  Otherwise, we're in for a long year. 

Regarding your comment on zone vs man, that isn’t how this works. Every single team in the NFL runs a combination of zone and man coverages. As a matter of fact, most teams run a majority of zone coverage. In 2016, for instance, the Bengals found themselves in zone coverage over 70% of the time. In 2018, the Bengals ran zone 57% of the time and only four teams in the league ran man more than 50% of the time. It’s a zone dominated league across the board and has been for quite some time.

[TJ528]

(08-27-2021, 12:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Regarding your comment on zone vs man, that isn’t how this works. Every single team in the NFL runs a combination of zone and man coverages. As a matter of fact, most teams run a majority of zone coverage. In 2016, for instance, the Bengals found themselves in zone coverage over 70% of the time. In 2018, the Bengals ran zone 57% of the time and only four teams in the league ran man more than 50% of the time. It’s a zone dominated league across the board and has been for quite some time.

So are you saying the personnel just weren't good players?  I mean when Lou came in there were still some damn good pieces on that defense left over but the highest he's finished in total defense is the mid-20's.  

So everyone's said he had to bring players in that fit his system.  From my understanding Lou's system is mostly a zone defense.  So i would say that differs from say a Mike Zimmer defense where he plays a lot of man defense. 

[KillerGoose]

(08-27-2021, 12:13 PM)TJ528 Wrote: So are you saying the personnel just weren't good players?  I mean when Lou came in there were still some damn good pieces on that defense left over but the highest he's finished in total defense is the mid-20's.  

So everyone's said he had to bring players in that fit his system.  From my understanding Lou's system is mostly a zone defense.  So i would say that differs from say a Mike Zimmer defense where he plays a lot of man defense. 

Jon’s and Joe’s win games, yeah. From a coaching standpoint, you can have a scheme that is too difficult to digest and that can cause some issues. You also have to be able to develop rapport with your players. If they like you, they’re going to play hard for you and be more receptive to what you’re doing. If they don’t like you, they aren’t going to be receptive to what your game plan is etc.

Zimmer actually doesn’t play a bunch of man defense. In 2018, the Vikings ran man coverage on 41% of snaps, zone on 59%. I’m not sure what their numbers were in 2016 but no team in the NFL ran man coverage for more than 50% of their snaps and the Vikings still weren’t in the top five. These numbers are available from PFF and Sports Info Solutions. I’m parsing together the hard numbers from both websites on free articles that are provided, so I can’t check 2020 numbers but there is no reason to think that this trend has changed much.

[impactplaya]

(08-27-2021, 11:19 AM)TJ528 Wrote: I mean it took 3 years to get his type of players in place so yea I'd hope that defense is better this year.  If it isnt then his ass needs to be driven to CVG and given a first class ticket to anywhere but Cincy lol

However, I mean if you're willing to give Lou 3 years to work and get the pieces he needs on defense shouldn't you've done that with Turner on the OL?  I mean the dude only got 2 years and Lou's defense the last 2 years was just as a bad as the OL.  

To be fair to Turner, Lou has had $200 million invested in his defense so again it better be good.  What's Turner get? Spain? Hart?  

Jim Turner lack of teaching methods was evident
In that Chargers game last year. 
His oline was playing passive and reactive. 
I saw no aggression being instilled. I saw a lack
Of conmunucation from OT to OT.

A good oline coach doesnt need 3 years to create
A stout oline. Jim Turner failed in his other stops
As a oline coach. 

In NFL circles when good oline coaches are brought up..his name is absent. 

Lou is a 1st time DC. He has to get 3-years.
I have actually saw a bit of progress under Lou.
I never saw the Bengals,oline progress under Turner

If Turner was all that he wouldnt be at West Texas A and M
Now. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-27-2021, 12:13 PM)TJ528 Wrote: So are you saying the personnel just weren't good players?  I mean when Lou came in there were still some damn good pieces on that defense left over but the highest he's finished in total defense is the mid-20's.  

So everyone's said he had to bring players in that fit his system.  From my understanding Lou's system is mostly a zone defense.  So i would say that differs from say a Mike Zimmer defense where he plays a lot of man defense. 

I've always felt man coverage was more about the physical ability of the players able to cover their assigned man whereas zone was more about instincts and reaction to the QB.

A player who isn't fast and/or twitchy enough to stick to their assignment probably isn't going to do as well in man coverage, but they might be able to handle zone if they have a good sense of where the play is going in their zone.

[Bengalitis]

(08-27-2021, 10:42 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Isn’t he still the #2 Center behind Hopkins?

We need quality back ups, what if Trey goes down in the Super Bowl this season? Price is gonna have to step up and man the offense to victory. 

[jj22]

Good, hopefully they trade him (they probably can't given Hopkins coming off injury). What's clear is he probably won't be extended so a trade would have been ideal. We could have bamboozled Jacksonville and Meyers into taking him. He seems to love his old players.

[RunKijanaRun]

(08-26-2021, 04:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Is Price good now or is this just a case of "no one needs to take a step forward when everyone else takes a step backwards?"

Easy to look tall when you’re partying with midgets.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-26-2021, 03:59 PM)Emeritus Wrote: The problem with Price is that he developed under Pollack then went to Jim Turner. He set the franchise back a year in development. The line will be serviceable this season but great in 22 & elite in 23. We just have to wait. "IF" they choose the right player top 10 in 22. I have them winning 6 or 7 games No injuries for Joe this season!

Well he had a disappointing year as rookie under Pollack so not sure we can really make it just Turner.. price has been a disappointment since yr 1.