Rapien and Pike lay it out

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-16-2021, 01:31 AM)Joelist Wrote: Eh. We've asked our coaches to do more for a long time now and we still had better designed offenses. Hue Jackson's offense was well designed and did not give the play away by formation constantly - neither did Jay Grudens. Brat when he got stale started doing it and also not doing anything to get receivers open (just like Taylor now).

It's not asking too much for the play caller of the offense to show proper situational awareness or for the offensive design to not be so vanilla and to actually set the players up to succeed.

Marvin didn't call any plays except for his last year when the ship was sinking. We can be critical without making up shit....lol. We're not discussing coordinators, we're talking about HC duties and being a coordinator somewhat at the same time. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-16-2021, 09:14 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. On defense, the execution has been pretty good, on offense spotty. I agree 100% with the direction and personnel. Offense just needs to be more consistent and play to their potential.

After a while, with the talent on this offense, it just becomes more and more clear whether or not he's capable of running it properly.

Absolutely. I see things from time to time that could make this offense really shine. So the designs and whatnot are there. It's the lack of identity and timing of the calls that leave a lot to be desired. That's on the guy calling the plays. Zac needs to give it up.

[BengalsRocker]

(10-16-2021, 09:31 AM)Wyche Wrote: Absolutely. I see things from time to time that could make this offense really shine. So the designs and whatnot are there. It's the lack of identity and timing of the calls that leave a lot to be desired. That's on the guy calling the plays. Zac needs to give it up.

Exactly.

Lack of identity, consistency(unless you like 80% run plays under-center), and shady situational calls.

All of the above fall under Zac's issues.

He ought to just hand it over to Callahan and see what he can do calling plays.

I would be on board with Taylor as a HC if he did this even if the OC were to fail and be replaced by another experienced one next season.

Unless ZT does a complete turn around choosing formations and calling plays, the experiment of being both HC & gameday play-caller should be over.

He just doesn't have the track record of success that warrants that much responsibility.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-16-2021, 10:28 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Exactly.

Lack of identity, consistency(unless you like 80% run plays under-center), and shady situational calls.

All of the above fall under Zac's issues.

He ought to just hand it over to Callahan and see what he can do calling plays.

I would be on board with Taylor as a HC if he did this even if the OC were to fail and be replaced by another experienced one next season.

Unless ZT does a complete turn around choosing formations and calling plays, the experiment of being both HC & gameday play-caller should be over.

He just doesn't have the track record of success that warrants that much responsibility.

Bingo Rocker. I honestly like what I see concerning this team. Character guys, smart players, high effort, there are a lot of things to like, so we have give him a little credit there. It's what you and others say that is the issue. Absolutely agree, let Brian see if he can call a better game. 

[BengalsRocker]

(10-16-2021, 02:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: Bingo Rocker. I honestly like what I see concerning this team. Character guys, smart players, high effort, there are a lot of things to like, so we have give him a little credit there. It's what you and others say that is the issue. Absolutely agree, let Brian see if he can call a better game. 

Yep.

My only real knock on keeping Taylor would be his ability to attract an OC if Callahan should fail.

Are the players on the roster enough to bring in a higher level OC prospect?

Outside of that I like the team culture he has built and am not ready to blow everything up just yet.

[Joelist]

(10-16-2021, 09:28 AM)Wyche Wrote: Marvin didn't call any plays except for his last year when the ship was sinking. We can be critical without making up shit....lol. We're not discussing coordinators, we're talking about HC duties and being a coordinator somewhat at the same time. 

And that means Zac needs to get out of the play calling business. HE chose to call all the plays in addition to being HC. Marvin was smart for not doing it. 

[Skans]

Some of this you tube video is true but some is absolute crap.

Tony Pike says when talking about the burrow interception in OT and Higgins dropping a pass late in the game-"I'm not making excuses for those guys but"

Well you are making excuses for players not doing their job and blaming player mistakes on the coach. How about players doing their job, Higgins drop is inexcusable, he tried to run before he caught and it was an easy catch, that's on Tee Higgins not the coach, and it's on Burrow and Tyler Boyd for whatever "miscommunication" that caused the INT. Not to mention the kicker missing two FG's that would have won the game.

Then Tony talks about the Chargers and going for it on 4th down inside their 30. The Bengals did it and Zach got ripped for being too aggressive.

I sure would like to have some of you as my boss, so anytime I screwed up, it would be your fault.

[t3r3e3]

(10-15-2021, 02:04 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do I think Taylor is the best option for coach? No.

Do I think Taylor is a better option and knows more about football than Tony Pike, Rapien and every single poster on this board? Yes, 100% certain.

These type of comments miss the boat entirely. Zac Taylor isn’t being evaluated against message board posters, talking heads, or ex-players. He’s being evaluated against his OC and HC peers. By those measures he’s a serial underachiever worthy of criticism. As a result, it’s fairly easy for rational people to question Zac’s results and his fitness to lead the team. Those questions will continue to be asked until Zac’s teams start winning more games and the offensive production increases.

[BengalsRocker]

(10-17-2021, 10:41 AM)Skans Wrote: Some of this you tube video is true but some is absolute crap.

Tony Pike says when talking about the burrow interception in OT and Higgins dropping a pass late in the game-"I'm not making excuses for those guys but"

Well you are making excuses for players not doing their job and blaming player mistakes on the coach.  How about players doing their job, Higgins drop is inexcusable, he tried to run before he caught and it was an easy catch, that's on Tee Higgins not the coach, and it's on Burrow and Tyler Boyd for whatever "miscommunication" that caused the INT.  Not to mention the kicker missing two FG's that would have won the game.

Then Tony talks about the Chargers and going for it on 4th down inside their 30.  The Bengals did it and Zach got ripped for being too aggressive.

I sure would like to have some of you as my boss, so anytime I screwed up, it would be your fault.

I think the reason he mentions those plays are because he's not ignoring the players making mistakes.

Hell, I believe the Chargers went for it closer to their own 20yd line.

Different situation and players IMO anyway. 

Also the broadcasters mentioned that the Chargers consistently use analytics going for it on 4th down instead of punting.

Zac is not helping the team to grow in terms of production and those numbers don't lie.

This doesn't excuse players not executing and I think most of those who agree with what's contained in this video would agree.

[fredtoast]

(10-17-2021, 11:08 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: These type of comments miss the boat entirely.  Zac Taylor isn’t being  evaluated against message board posters, talking heads, or ex-players.  He’s being evaluated against his OC and HC peers.  By those measures he’s a serial underachiever worthy of criticism.  As a result, it’s fairly easy for rational people to question Zac’s results and his fitness to lead the team.  Those questions will continue to be asked until Zac’s teams start winning more games and the offensive production increases.

This is the point i have been making.

I may not be smart enough to know exactly what was done wrong, but when a new bridge collapses I know the people building it made some mistakes.

Our offense has too much talent to be among the very worst in the league.  

We are 28th in "drive success rate". (at least 1 first down or td)  WAY too many three-and-outs.

We are 25th in yards gained DESPITE PLAYING TWO EXTRA OVERTIME PERIODS.

We are 23rd in third down conversions and 31st in third-and-short (1 or 2 yd)