Make or Break Game for ZT

[Sled21]

(10-17-2021, 11:21 PM)Benton Wrote: Bengals lose: "were never going anywhere with zt! What a chump!"

Bengals win: "if zt doesn't win the next game, they gotta fire him! What a loser! We barely won!'

You guys are great.

You forgot if a play fails, "Zac is the worst play caller in history"
If a play works, "Burrow obviously changed the play" (even when Burrow says ZT called the play)

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2021, 08:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, but the zero blitz audible is a bad example. The coaches have no idea what the defense is going to do when sending the play in. That's why there are audibles built in each call based on what the defense shows pre snap. As soon as the QB sees zero, he has to pick that up and get into the play to beat it. This is every game, every Sunday and not unique to Cincinnati.

I get that, and I was referencing more of the scripted plays and how poor they have been.  FIrst half was solid the first drive then a lot of blah.  Lucky for the Bengals, the defense continues to be stellar.  

My criticism of all this is for the plan against the Ravens next week.  What they have been doing (from a play calling standpoint) in the first half all season simply won't keep them in that game.  

[grampahol]

While I don't think ZT is the greatest play caller in the world this team has been a long, long way from quitting on Zac which is something that happens to really bad coaches on even good teams..  You take the bad with the good. Life really isn't lemonade flavored piss and lollypops all day long..

[MileHighGrowler]

(10-18-2021, 10:08 AM)grampahol Wrote: While I don't think ZT is the greatest play caller in the world this team has been a long, long way from quitting on Zac which is something that happens to really bad coaches on even good teams..  You take the bad with the good. Life really isn't lemonade flavored piss and lollypops all day long..

This is, and has been true.  Zac is a good people person, and has the team on the same page, which is exactly what you want to see.  They don't appear to be walking on the field looking flat, they're not losing it on the sideline when things are getting tight.  And the players are putting out effort.  All the things you want to see.  If the guy would just let that be his focus and let someone else call plays, I really think they could start beating the good teams... 

[MickMack]

(10-18-2021, 11:50 AM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: This is, and has been true.  Zac is a good people person, and has the team on the same page, which is exactly what you want to see.  They don't appear to be walking on the field looking flat, they're not losing it on the sideline when things are getting tight.  And the players are putting out effort.  All the things you want to see.  If the guy would just let that be his focus and let someone else call plays, I really think they could start beating the good teams... 

This is the primary reason I'm warming up to Zac.  I haven't been a fan and that's an understatement.  But he has built a rock-solid culture and has a locker room that respects him.  How many people could accomplish that after 2-14 and 4-11-1 seasons?

[fredtoast]

(10-17-2021, 11:06 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Moose Johnston said today about ZT something to the effect of "I was very surprised when he said Detroit was keeping people deep to take away our passing game, so we did a lot of two TE sets and tried to run the ball".  He then went on to say how surprised he was that ZT didn't just say:  "This is what we are, I invested a #5 overall draft pick on a WR, and just try to stop us", but he adjusted his play calls to their sets.  

This is BS.  If he had thrown the ball deep with three deep CBs and was unsuccesful then you would be here calling Zac stupid for doing that also.

That is the big problem with criticizing a coaches playcalling.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for the person being critical to be wrong.  All he has to do is complani about something that does not work and claim it would hve been better if they did ti his way.

(10-17-2021, 11:06 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: ZT let three UDFA corners change his offense.  And despite a huge pick that gave them the ball back and decent field position all half, they managed just 14 points the entire game. 

We scored 34 points for the game.  The Packers scored 35 against them.  The Lions last three opponents (Ravens, Bears, Vikings) scored 19, 24, 19.

So is Zac a better offensive mind than the coaches of all those teams?

[WeezyBengal]

(10-18-2021, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is BS.  If he had thrown the ball deep with three deep CBs and was unsuccesful then you would be here calling Zac stupid for doing that also.

That is the big problem with criticizing a coaches playcalling.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for the person being critical to be wrong.  All he has to do is complani about something that does not work and claim it would hve been better if they did ti his way.



We scored 34 points for the game.  The Packers scored 35 against them.  The Lions last three opponents (Ravens, Bears, Vikings) scored 19, 24, 19.

So is Zac a better offensive mind than the coaches of all those teams?

Are you a ZT guy or not? I'm genuinely wondering. Some threads you trash him and other threads you defend him. Are you just trying to be an antagonist or what? 

I think it's fair to be critical of ZT's offense because of where they rank in the NFL. They are in the bottom 1/4th in offense efficiency. If we were rolling out Jared Goff each game with the Lions personel on offense that would be one thing, but our offensive personel are bordering on elite. Not be able to score with guys like Burrow, Mixon, Higgins, Chase, Boyd, etc on your roster is frustrating.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(10-18-2021, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is BS.  If he had thrown the ball deep with three deep CBs and was unsuccesful then you would be here calling Zac stupid for doing that also.

That is the big problem with criticizing a coaches playcalling.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for the person being critical to be wrong.  All he has to do is complani about something that does not work and claim it would hve been better if they did ti his way.



We scored 34 points for the game.  The Packers scored 35 against them.  The Lions last three opponents (Ravens, Bears, Vikings) scored 19, 24, 19.

So is Zac a better offensive mind than the coaches of all those teams?

And we pulled the plug with 8 minutes left. 

The thing about the offense that is so frustrating is that we often go 1-2 quarters without getting a first down. I mean, aside from the first & last drives of the first half, I think the 4-5 in the middle went 1,2,3 kick. We cannot turn into a chorus line for a quarter every game and expect to beat good teams.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-18-2021, 02:00 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: And we pulled the plug with 8 minutes left. 

The thing about the offense that is so frustrating is that we often go 1-2 quarters without getting a first down. I mean, aside from the first & last drives of the first half, I think the 4-5 in the middle went 1,2,3 kick. We cannot turn into a chorus line for a quarter every game and expect to beat good teams.

Exactly. It's the all or nothing aspect of this offense that drives me insane. 

We will dink and dunk for an entire half, then heave a bomb to Chase on a Burrow extended jail break play in the final minute of a half and score off of it. 

There seems to be no creativity or identity to this offense yet. I see teams like Baltimore, KC, Green Bay, Tampa Bay, LA run their offense and they are constantly doing innovative stuff and throwing the ball down the field to get chunk plays. You just watch one of their games and you can see a difference.

You can't tell me that this team doesn't have better skill players than the Vikings, Browns, Giants, 49ers, Broncos who all produce more yards/game than the Bengals. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2021, 10:08 AM)grampahol Wrote: You take the bad with the good. 

I think you meant to say:
You take the good
You take the bad
You take them both
And there you have
The Facts of Life
The Facts of Life

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2021, 01:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Are you a ZT guy or not? I'm genuinely wondering. Some threads you trash him and other threads you defend him. Are you just trying to be an antagonist or what? 

I think it's fair to be critical of ZT's offense because of where they rank in the NFL. They are in the bottom 1/4th in offense efficiency. If we were rolling out Jared Goff each game with the Lions personel on offense that would be one thing, but our offensive personel are bordering on elite. Not be able to score with guys like Burrow, Mixon, Higgins, Chase, Boyd, etc on your roster is frustrating.

There's legitimate criticisms of Zac has a playcaller, to be sure. However, there are people who refuse to give him any credit no matter what. We have one guy that actually believes that Burrow completely changed a play at the line of scrimmage; not called an audible, but called a completely different play. I don't see how that is even possible, but he believes it and, ergo, Zac is incapable of anything good.

Count me as one who wouldn't mind keeping Zac as HC but getting someone else to call offensive plays. 

[WiregrassBenGal]

Zac won my respect for toughing it out through the really bad times. It doesn't get much worse than 2-14! Last year was literally a couple of plays and Joe's leg being broken in half from at least a 500 finish. This year the ceiling is even higher even though the Bengals still might not make the playoffs or go anywhere. It's just great to feel good about being a Bengals fan again.

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2021, 01:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Are you a ZT guy or not? I'm genuinely wondering. Some threads you trash him and other threads you defend him. Are you just trying to be an antagonist or what? 

I am critical of ZT.

But I am also critical of people who make up stuff to be upset over.

You are trying to claim that Zac is clueless because we put up more points on the Lions than their last three opponents including the Ravens.

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2021, 02:00 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The thing about the offense that is so frustrating is that we often go 1-2 quarters without getting a first down. I mean, aside from the first & last drives of the first half, I think the 4-5 in the middle went 1,2,3 kick. We cannot turn into a chorus line for a quarter every game and expect to beat good teams.

So we should be more like the other teams in the league that go entire games without punting?

I am not a big fan of Taylor.  But I am not stupid enough to complain about a game where we drop 34 points on a team despite coatsing with a huge second half lead.

[*bfine32*]

(10-18-2021, 09:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You forgot if a play fails, "Zac is the worst play caller in history"
If a play works, "Burrow obviously changed the play" (even when Burrow says ZT called the play)

There was a play yesterday where the 3 WRs all ran into each other. The game day thread exploded with "Zac's an idiot".

They seemed to think Zac designed the play for them to run into each other; never crossed their minds that one of the receivers may have ran the wrong route.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2021, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is BS.  If he had thrown the ball deep with three deep CBs and was unsuccesful then you would be here calling Zac stupid for doing that also.

That is the big problem with criticizing a coaches playcalling.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for the person being critical to be wrong.  All he has to do is complani about something that does not work and claim it would hve been better if they did ti his way.

You aren't this wrong very often.  Props.

You saw how overmatched the DBs were when they started to challenge them.  Instead of challenging them early, they ran three consecutive three-and-outs on the drives that followed the opening touchdown drive.  Those drives were absolute duds.  !2 personnel running in to the strength of their defense.  Duds.  Those DBs looked lost and we didn't know that until they challenged them (despite having every reason to think that three UDFA CBs won't be that strong).  

I don't care about right and wrong as far as my criticism, but I do care if this team is more prepared for the Ravens next week.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-18-2021, 09:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get that, and I was referencing more of the scripted plays and how poor they have been.  FIrst half was solid the first drive then a lot of blah.  Lucky for the Bengals, the defense continues to be stellar.  

My criticism of all this is for the plan against the Ravens next week.  What they have been doing (from a play calling standpoint) in the first half all season simply won't keep them in that game.  

I gotcha....and yeah, play calling is inconsistent. They'll have to be real aggressive this week, no question. Hopefully Joe doesn't have another 3 int game if they do.