Three years ago.

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2021, 05:22 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Marv's teams were way more talented than this one. 

Because he was better at developing talent.

Taylor has had twice the help in free agency than Marvin got and he still can't win like Marvin did.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-11-2021, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because he was better at developing talent.

Taylor has had twice the help in free agency than Marvin got and he still can't win like Marvin did.

This is stretching it. It wasn't "twice the help"...and the only fair way to judge them is how they coached when they had that help. The only year where Zac benefitted from all those free agents is this year. He's 5-4.

Now compare that to what Marvin did with his haul, and he was 8-8 after all his free agents were signed. And tbh, Marv had more incoming talent than Zac did at the beginning. Marv had young ascending guys. Zac had washed up guys like AJ Green, Geno, etc.

I do think Marv was probably the better coach, but we haven't seen Zac with a complete team for very long. Marv had a complete team several times.

[Big_Ern]

(11-11-2021, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because he was better at developing talent.

Taylor has had twice the help in free agency than Marvin got and he still can't win like Marvin did.

Think it was from a period of better drafting and spending to retain. I'm sure their % of salary cap spent were similar

[*rfaulk34*]

A more accurate gauge would be to adjust the previous FA for inflation to see how they compare "dollar to dollar" and also, complare FA contracts by percentage of overall salary cap. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-11-2021, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Thornton ($9.1) + Hardy ($8.5) + James ($8.7) + Kelly ($4.0) + Clemmons ($2.8) + Herring ($5.5) + O'Neal ($4.1) + Nate Webster ($5.4) = $48.1

Hendrickson ($15.0) + Trae Waynes ($14.0) + Reader ($13.3M) + Riley Reiff ($7.5M) + Awuzie ($7.3M) + Ogunjobi ($6.2 M) + Bell ($6.0) + Hilton ($6.0) =  $75.3

Not even in the same ballpark.  Almost an extra $30 million per year.

Adjusted for inflation, 200x's $48.1 would be about $72.1 today. 

[packerbacker]

Hope you guys bounce back.

[GodFather]

(11-11-2021, 06:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I do think Marv was probably the better coach, but we haven't seen Zac with a complete team for very long. Marv had a complete team several times.

But really how good was Lewis if he had a complete team several times and still failed to win a playoff game?

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2021, 06:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: But really how good was Lewis if he had a complete team several times and still failed to win a playoff game?

He really did not have a "complete team" very often.  He was an underdog in most of his playoff games.  2005 had a weak defense.  2009 was mostly smoke and mirrors.  He only had a decent running game one time in the '11-'15 run. He lost his starting QB for the playoffs with two of his better teams ('05, '15)

But what is so impressive was that he was able to build those good teams while being so severely handicapped by our free agent policy.

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2021, 06:23 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Think it was from a period of better drafting and spending to retain. I'm sure their % of salary cap spent were similar

(11-11-2021, 06:29 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A more accurate gauge would be to adjust the previous FA for inflation to see how they compare "dollar to dollar" and also, complare FA contracts by percentage of overall salary cap. 

The 2003 numbers are adjusted to account for the increase in the salary cap.

The actual payout for the '03-'04 players was way less than half of $48.1 million.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-11-2021, 06:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The $48.1 million is already adjusted for the change in the slary cap from $75 million to $182 million.  So the actual number was way less than half of $48.1 million.

Ok...i have way too many things going on at work right now and you completely lost me. Maybe i should wait till later when i can focus and understand what's going on...

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-11-2021, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The 2003 numbers are adjusted to account for the increase in the salary cap.

The actual payout for the '03-'04 players was way less than half of $48.1 million.

Ok. Got it. I thought we were talking about actual dollars for then and now. 

[Control513]

Marv was a such a good coach, when available no other NFL team offered him a position on their staffs, and the only job he could get was co-defensive coordinator job at Arizona St. They needed 2 coaches for one job. Go Marv!

[BengalChris]

(11-10-2021, 05:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ah, I misread you because there's been some "bring back Marv" sentiments in this thread. Apologies. Also, I agree Marv was probably the better coach.

Oh, I liked Marvin in that he took us from Mike Brown 90s to being decently respectable. However, as you said, no play off wins. The talent was there.

 

[BengalChris]

(11-11-2021, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Thornton ($9.1) + Hardy ($8.5) + James ($8.7) + Kelly ($4.0) + Clemmons ($2.8) + Herring ($5.5) + O'Neal ($4.1) + Nate Webster ($5.4) = $48.1

Hendrickson ($15.0) + Trae Waynes ($14.0) + Reader ($13.3M) + Riley Reiff ($7.5M) + Awuzie ($7.3M) + Ogunjobi ($6.2 M) + Bell ($6.0) + Hilton ($6.0) =  $75.3

Not even in the same ballpark.  Almost an extra $30 million per year.

While I don't disagree that the front office has done quite a bit more for Taylor than they ever did for Marvin, the gold I have says those 2004 dollars were worth a lot more each than today's devalued version.

 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-11-2021, 06:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ok. Got it. I thought we were talking about actual dollars for then and now. 

Fred explained it pretty well. I took the original average salary, divided it into the old cap, then multiplied it by the current cap, to see what the figures would look like now.

There are obviously other factors (like rookie wage scale) at play here, but it gives you a general idea of how big the contracts were.

(11-11-2021, 07:01 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh, I liked Marvin in that he took us from Mike Brown 90s to being decently respectable. However, as you said, no play off wins. The talent was there.

I loved Marvin for several years, but I'd say the honeymoon was over for me after 2008. Everything after that just cemented how I felt about him. All we ever got was either (a) mediocrity (b) winning season followed by embarrassing playoff loss or © losing season.

[BengalChris]

(11-11-2021, 07:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fred explained it pretty well. I took the original average salary, divided it into the old cap, then multiplied it by the current cap, to see what the figures would look like now.

There are obviously other factors (like rookie wage scale) at play here, but it gives you a general idea of how big the contracts were.


I loved Marvin for several years, but I'd say the honeymoon was over for me after 2008. Everything after that just cemented how I felt about him. All we ever got was either (a) mediocrity (b) winning season followed by embarrassing playoff loss or © losing season.

The playoff losses were painful.

 

[*jason*]

3 years ago today (give or take) the Saints beat the brakes off the Bengals. Teryl Austin was shown the door the following day.

[Big_Ern]

(11-11-2021, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The 2003 numbers are adjusted to account for the increase in the salary cap.

The actual payout for the '03-'04 players was way less than half of $48.1 million.

That doesn't tell me the % of cap spent in both scenarios. I'm not even talking about 03. Marvin had many good rosters in his tenure here. 

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2021, 08:33 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: That doesn't tell me the % of cap spent in both scenarios.

If the salaries are adjusted to make them equal based on the increase in the salary cap then the % of salary cap is also adjusted.

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2021, 08:33 PM)Big_Ern Wrote:  I'm not even talking about 03. Marvin had many good rosters in his tenure here. 

I know.  It is pretty amazing what he was able to build with less free agent help than any coach in the league.

But in the end it was just too big of a handicap for him to overcome.