Last comments on Raider victory

[GreenCornBengal]

(11-27-2021, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There was no potential to see.

I don't doubt you had hope, but don't try to act like there was anything about his resume or his results that indicated he would ever be a successful NFL head coach.

And spare me the pap about "the player buying in".  I can post quotes from players supporting the worst coaches ever.  That is just what most players do.

Correction that you’ll agree with…That is what most players SAY they do. Half that buy in garbage is just lip service. AJ and Dunlap both “bought in” lol

[Sled21]

(11-27-2021, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There was no potential to see.

I don't doubt you had hope, but don't try to act like there was anything about his resume or his results that indicated he would ever be a successful NFL head coach.

And spare me the pap about "the player buying in".  I can post quotes from players supporting the worst coaches ever.  That is just what most players do.

BS, you didn't see it obviously. Some of us just evidently have better eyesight. 

[grampahol]

I know nobody wants to hear it and neither do I for the most part, but I still think, especially the way this season has played out so far the league is pulling too many strings to keep anyone from really rising to the top. It's just tooo coincidental that so many underdogs would suddenly start knocking off pretty good teams. 
Call it conspiracy theory mongering if you want, but the one question  Brian Touhey has been asking for a long time now..Would YOU leave your multi billion dollar enterprise up to chance?  I don't think so butter cups.. Hell, I don't leave the few bucks I have in my savings account up to chance much less billions.. 

[N_B]

(11-27-2021, 05:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: BS, you didn't see it obviously. Some of us just evidently have better eyesight. 

What was there to believe in before this year? Have you ever seen a coach in his first two years with less potential?

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-28-2021, 02:31 AM)N_B Wrote: What was there to believe in before this year?  Have you ever seen a coach in his first two years with less potential?

I don't know.  I get the lack of patience with ZT and his staff, but when Burrow got injured last year, he was just starting to hit his stride.  Anyone that thinks they could not have won 6-7 games last year with him is just lying to themselves to keep their hate up.

He also showed he can attack with less.  That team that beat pitt on National TV was so depleted of talent.  No Burrow.  AJ Green was a shell of himself.  There were a ton of players out and yet he and his coaches put together a plan that beat the steelers with Ryan Finley.  Read that again.

This season I called early on the "no excuses" season.  Burrow was clearly not 100% at the beginning of the year, and they wisely focused on running the ball to protect him.  They slowly opened it up over the course of the season and now, almost exactly one calendar year from the injury, they are showing more creative play designs and schemes.  I have NEVER seen a fake flea-flicker before.  It was hilarious, and it could have been a huge gain if Mixon doesn't slip.  They are also being opponent-centric in their scheme.  Instead of the BS "we just need to block and tackle better" when your team is being destroyed and you look like a deer in the headlights, they are making their scheme specific to each opponent.

They have been blown out ONCE this year.  Their losses?  All by 3 points or less.  They are very competitive and I love the direction of the team.

People will probably hate ZT until he wins a playoff game.  The long frustration from Marv is being held against ZT and that is fine.  I just think he deserves more credit for what he has done this year with one of the youngest offenses in the league.  

[Earendil]

I think some people will hate ZT even if he wins a playoff game because to do otherwise would be to admit they may have been wrong.

[grampahol]

The ZT administration has done quite a bit of changing over the past few years. ZT is still making some weird overly aggressive calls here and there, but not as often and nobody seems to have mentally checked out. Those who did are no longer with the team. They seem to be playing to the players strengths more instead of trying to rely on just one or two players to do everything. Joe Burrow is no good for them sitting in the rehab room during every game and they now know that.. The term hate is just a bit too melodramatic when it comes to head coaches..or players for that matter. If I hate anything at all about this team and the fan base particularly it is when people openly root for our own players to fail..

[fredtoast]

(11-28-2021, 10:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: when Burrow got injured last year, he was just starting to hit his stride.  Anyone that thinks they could not have won 6-7 games last year with him is just lying to themselves to keep their hate up.

When Finley took his first snap we were losing to a 2-7 Washington team.  The week before we had lost by 26 points in a game where we only managed 185 yards of offense.  At that time there was absolutely zero evidence that Taylor had any clue about anything.  Anyone saying anything positive was absolutely delusional.
  

(11-28-2021, 10:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He also showed he can attack with less.  That team that beat pitt on National TV was so depleted of talent.  No Burrow.  AJ Green was a shell of himself.  There were a ton of players out and yet he and his coaches put together a plan that beat the steelers with Ryan Finley.  Read that again.

There was no "game plan"  The Steelers turned the ball over 3 times early in the game on there end of the field.  Our first 3 scoring drives covered a COMBINED 60 yards.  We only had 230 yards of offense for the entire game.

(11-28-2021, 10:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  The long frustration from Marv is being held against ZT and that is fine. 

Actually the people that support Taylor the most seem to be the ones who were so happy to get him in the first place for no reason other than "he isn't Marvin".  Anyone who dared to criticize Taylor's lack of qualifications at the time was accused of "defending Marvin".

Look, no one trashed the Bengals more for signing Adam Jones than me.  He was the biggest knucklehead in league history.  But when he turned out to be one of our bets players I defended him.  I will gladly support Taylor if he wins.  I really want him to win.  But I just am not convinced yet.  I don't care if some of the players like him.  I want a coach that can win instead of just pander to players.

[grampahol]

You know what I think killed Marvin's tenure? Bad drafts and a team that aged out right under his eyes.. It's easy to blame a coach for drafts, but who really pulls those strings? Brown family and Tobin..

[Destro]

But the Bengals blowout loss wasn't 7 weeks ago, it was their 2nd loss in a row, after first losing to the lowly Jets, before going into a bye. Came out of the bye and beat down Raiders. Nice, but not like it was though they were facing a superior team. Most in the media had the Bengals winning, as the Raiders were still in flux.

Bengals have both the ability to win every game from here on out and to loss every game from here on out. Only lose one or two, to a complete team, in that span, maybe it moves the needle for me some. Only winning one or two in that span and a promise the excuse train will be parked on this board.

In my opinion, the team underperformers with Taylor as the head coach and I believe several HC could have had the Bengals performing even better and even a few more wins. The loses being a few points, well what is that cause? Franchise QB, talented WR group, yeah only one decent TE, a RB who is Top 5 in the league, and a defense which is not embarrassing, a FG kicker who people want to nickname, for some reason....

Not saying it has to be Bill Belichick or Andy Reid or something, but I believe a good coach gets this team those extra points, fixes those extra errors and the team is first in the division. Regardless of what happens with the Steelers, the Ravens are built to continue to excel. They have a school bus of guys to IR and still are tops of the division. They make no excuses. Win or don't. We need to be on that level. Being a "yeah, but" team will not make it.

[ShhhPieceful]

(11-28-2021, 12:07 PM)Destro Wrote: But the Bengals blowout loss wasn't 7 weeks ago, it was there 2nd loss in a row, after first losing to the lowly Jets, before going into a bye. Came out of the bye and beat down Raiders. Nice, but not like it was though they were facing a superior team. Most in the media had the Bengals winning, as the Raiders were still in flux.

Bengals have both the ability to win every game from here on out and to loss every game from here on out. Only lose one or two, to a complete team, in that span, maybe it moves the needle for me some. Only winning one or two in that span and a promise the excuse train will be parked on this board.

In my opinion, the team underperformers with Taylor as the head coach and I believe several HC could have had the Bengals performing even better and even a few more wins. The loses being a few points, well what is that cause? Franchise QB, talented WR group, yeah only one decent TE, a RB who is Top 5 in the league, and a defense which is not embarrassing, a FG kicker who people want to nickname, for some reason....

Not saying it has to be Bill Belichick or Andy Reid or something, but I believe a good coach gets this team those extra points, fixes those extra errors and the team is first in the division. Regardless of what happens with the Steelers, the Ravens are built to continue to excel. They have a school bus of guys to IR and still are tops of the division. They make no excuses. Win or don't. We need to be on that level. Being a "yeah, but" team will not make it.

This. 

[Sled21]

(11-28-2021, 02:31 AM)N_B Wrote: What was there to believe in before this year?  Have you ever seen a coach in his first two years with less potential?

If your focus is only on wins and losses in the first 2 years, then you might have a point. If you focus on what he was doing as far as building this team up to be a contender, there was a lot of potential to see. It's really not that hard if you can look past the scoreboard for 10 seconds.

[Sled21]

(11-28-2021, 11:00 AM)Earendil Wrote: I think some people will hate ZT even if he wins a playoff game because to do otherwise would be to admit they may have been wrong.

Exactly!!!

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-28-2021, 11:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When Finley took his first snap we were losing to a 2-7 Washington team.  The week before we had lost by 26 points in a game where we only managed 185 yards of offense.  At that time there was absolutely zero evidence that Taylor had any clue about anything.  Anyone saying anything positive was absolutely delusional.
  


There was no "game plan"  The Steelers turned the ball over 3 times early in the game on there end of the field.  Our first 3 scoring drives covered a COMBINED 60 yards.  We only had 230 yards of offense for the entire game.



Actually the people that support Taylor the most seem to be the ones who were so happy to get him in the first place for no reason other than "he isn't Marvin".  Anyone who dared to criticize Taylor's lack of qualifications at the time was accused of "defending Marvin".

Look, no one trashed the Bengals more for signing Adam Jones than me.  He was the biggest knucklehead in league history.  But when he turned out to be one of our bets players I defended him.  I will gladly support Taylor if he wins.  I really want him to win.  But I just am not convinced yet.  I don't care if some of the players like him.  I want a coach that can win instead of just pander to players.

1.) They had 185 yards passing and 139 yards rushing for a total yardage of 324, against the #1 defense in the league.  

2.) They were up 9-7 at the half and Burrow had 200 yards passing against the best front four in the league.  

Wasting time talking about Marvin is just that, a waste of time.  He hasn't been the coach here for two-and-a-half years.  I was excited to have someone who had more creativity on offense, and that was supposed to be his big asset.  His "route designs" were very well respected.  


It turns out (IMHO) that Taylor's biggest asset is his ability to build a team and a culture.  They are "ahead of schedule" based on Burrow's youth and injury.  I am very optimistic about the future.  

Those observations, given the fact that his supposedly best weapon on offense had completely disappeared and the team was buried in injuries, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

[fredtoast]

(11-28-2021, 12:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If your focus is only on wins and losses in the first 2 years, then you might have a point. If you focus on what he was doing as far as building this team up to be a contender, there was a lot of potential to see. It's really not that hard if you can look past the scoreboard for 10 seconds.

The scoreboard is all that matters.

You can't get into the playoffs by claiming you have a superior "culture" when you still can't win.

I also see lots of potential on this team.  In fact, based on the talent we have I think we should be better than 6-4.