Bill Belichick is showing you that coaching matters. Don't settle.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2021, 06:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year the Pats lost to the Seahawks because Bill did not use a timeout at the end of the game properly.

Not saying that Taylor is anywhere close to Belichick as a coach, but it is silly to act like Taylor is the only one that makes these type of mistakes.

Or that flub against Indy in the playoffs....


Hoodie is the GOAT, but even he screws up at times.

[motoarch]

Bill Belichick is a good coach isn't exactly breaking news.

[*Synric*]

Bill Belicheat is one of the best defensive coaches in NFL history. Its not surprising he's got the Patriots defense playing lights out.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-07-2021, 06:36 PM)kalibengal Wrote: How can you not be impressed by what Belichick has done in a Yr or so since Brady left? That D is stout as hell and his two star CBs are undrafted Free Agents!  Then he goes out and drafts a a perfect game manager type of QB like Mac Jones also has these impressive RBs like Stevenson that are mid rounders not to memtkon that moose FB and the O line is top tier....he built it for December /Jan football. They look to be headed deep into the playoffs and not looking into rear view mirrow anymore on losing GOAT.     

Who said I'm not impressed? I'd give both of reuben's testicles to get Belichick to coach the Bengals. Unfortunately, I don't think the Patriots will take anything less than Andy's dong.

[fredtoast]

(12-07-2021, 07:17 PM)Synric Wrote: Bill Belicheat is one of the best defensive coaches in NFL history. Its not surprising he's got the Patriots defense playing lights out.

A lot of people forget that he already had 2 Super Bowl rings before he even became a HC.

Bill Parcells never won a Super Bowl without Belichick as his DC.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-07-2021, 06:25 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Hoody is also showing a rebuild can quickly occur.

What rebuild?

He added a QB, that's it. Nothing else.

It's clear as day that Cam and the 9 billion opt-outs hurt them significantly, last year; with everybody back and a competent QB at the helm, they're back to being #1 seeds.

They are not an apples to apples comparison to us in the slightest (re: your, "rebuild," comment).

(12-07-2021, 06:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year the Pats lost to the Seahawks because Bill did not use a timeout at the end of the game properly.

Not saying that Taylor is anywhere close to Belichick as a coach, but it is silly to act like Taylor is the only one that makes these type of mistakes.

Again, that wasn't on Zac but he took responsibility for it anyways (not sure why).

I'm not defending Zac in any of this, BTW, but people have to take the hate blinders off and see things for what they are; the fact is that our coaching staff is light years ahead of where they were 2 years ago and also significantly-improved from last year. Yes there will still be inconsistencies, but if they are in place after this year, I would think the expectation would be that they would continue to improve.

But how one can blame him for refs screwing up the clock like they did all game (and wasted time) and then compare an offensive PC to Bill Belichick (who has never called an offense in his life, someone correct me if I'm wrong) after an OFFENSIVE anomaly, is just a misguided, stupid, non-apples to apples comparison of the situation.

[BengalYankee]

(12-08-2021, 10:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bill Parcells never won a Super Bowl without Belichick as his DC.

Michael Jordan never won an NBA Championship without Scottie Pippen as his sidekick. 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-08-2021, 11:07 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: What rebuild?

He added a QB, that's it. Nothing else.

Hunter Henry was their big FA signing, and they also added Trent Brown and Nelson Agholor. Agholor did have nearly 900 yards receiving last year. Not great, but WR2 numbers. Brown is playing at a really high level again back in NE after leaving the Raiders.

I think a lot has to do with their coaches, schemes, and mentality.
It's crazy how successful Josh McDaniels is as an OC, and more impressive that he has chosen to stay with NE instead of going elsewhere to be a HC again.
Bill's son Steve is the one who calls the defensive plays even though he's not technically the DC. He's been doing a phenomenal job.

The Bengals, on the other hand, have just "meh" coaches. 

[Frank Booth]

(12-08-2021, 11:17 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Michael Jordan never won an NBA Championship without Scottie Pippen as his sidekick. 

Well that’s true. Pippen’s an all time great player

[grampahol]

(12-08-2021, 10:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Who said I'm not impressed? I'd give both of reuben's testicles to get Belichick to coach the Bengals. Unfortunately, I don't think the Patriots will take anything less than Andy's dong.

Well ruben..Looks like you won't be making any more babies if Belichick comes to Cincinnati..  Tough pill to swallow, but rules are rules..

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-08-2021, 11:23 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hunter Henry was their big FA signing, and they also added Trent Brown and Nelson Agholor. Agholor did have nearly 900 yards receiving last year. Not great, but WR2 numbers. Brown is playing at a really high level again back in NE after leaving the Raiders.

I think a lot has to do with their coaches, schemes, and mentality.
It's crazy how successful Josh McDaniels is as an OC, and more impressive that he has chosen to stay with NE instead of going elsewhere to be a HC again.
Bill's son Steve is the one who calls the defensive plays even though he's not technically the DC. He's been doing a phenomenal job.

The Bengals, on the other hand, have just "meh" coaches. 

Exactly that; they got rid of Newton, got their opt-outs back and added 2, "new," players (and Henry hasn't done a whole lot, outside of the 7 TDs). I put new in quotes because Brown was with them previously. Brown also has only played 5 games, so he hasn't done much either.

I get your sentiment on the coaching, but I wouldn't say we have, "meh," coaches; before this year, absolutely (would be even more disparaging than, "meh," TBH), but they have been given time to improve and they clearly have, as well as bringing in new line coaches that have undoubtedly improved the team immensely.

They don't set the world on fire, but the games called, the players reactions and the culture, show that the current staff has improved and may help the team reach heights it hasn't in decades.

Another season like the last 2 and it would be time to move on, but time will tell the worth of the staff, at this point.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Bill Belichick is so good he doesn’t even need a defensive coordinator.

It’s true!

Look on the Patriots’ website. There is no defensive coordinator.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2021, 11:17 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Michael Jordan never won an NBA Championship without Scottie Pippen as his sidekick. 

But Pippen did not win 6 more without Jordan like Belichick did without Parcells.

[WiregrassBenGal]

This is sort of off topic for this thread, but it seems like the NFL is trying to engineer a Brady/Buccaneers vs. Belichick/Patriots Super Bowl, which makes me want to

[TecmoBengals]

(12-08-2021, 11:07 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: What rebuild?

He added a QB, that's it. Nothing else.

It's clear as day that Cam and the 9 billion opt-outs hurt them significantly, last year; with everybody back and a competent QB at the helm, they're back to being #1 seeds.

They are not an apples to apples comparison to us in the slightest (re: your, "rebuild," comment).


Again, that wasn't on Zac but he took responsibility for it anyways (not sure why).

I'm not defending Zac in any of this, BTW, but people have to take the hate blinders off and see things for what they are; the fact is that our coaching staff is light years ahead of where they were 2 years ago and also significantly-improved from last year. Yes there will still be inconsistencies, but if they are in place after this year, I would think the expectation would be that they would continue to improve.

But how one can blame him for refs screwing up the clock like they did all game (and wasted time) and then compare an offensive PC to Bill Belichick (who has never called an offense in his life, someone correct me if I'm wrong) after an OFFENSIVE anomaly, is just a misguided, stupid, non-apples to apples comparison of the situation.

You're as wrong as can be about "nothing else". the Patriots had a busy offseason rebuilding their team. I refer you to:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32167432/will-new-england-patriots-see-results-spending-163-million-free-agency

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2021/11/26/patriots-free-agent-signings-stats-performance-matt-judon-kyle-van-noy-hunter-henry-jonnu-smith-nelson-agholor-kendrick-bourne/

In addition to drafting a new franchise QB, they also used free agency by targeting specific players for their rebuild. It wasn't just about transitioning from Brady to Cam to Mac.

Edit:

Three articles referencing the Pats rebuild:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/patriots-roster-mac-jones-matt-judon-hunter-henry/1kco2pu9zsl4v1i74pew9ayfj1

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/12/07/week-13-biggest-storylines-belichick-quick-rebuild-bucs-inaction-on-antonio-brown

https://www.essentiallysports.com/nfl-news-twitter-delighted-after-bill-belichicks-rebuilt-new-england-patriots-become-afcs-top-seed-bill-belichick/

Sure, rebuild applicable to sports is a subjective term but it is fairly clear Bill rebuilt the team.

[TecmoBengals]

Additional points of consideration regarding Bill's rebuild:

- In sports, rebuilding essentially means something changed for a team, and not for the better, that necessitates change. Rebuilding means it is time to restore what was once good. Rebuilding in sports isn't the traditional definition of building something that has been damaged or wrecked. It does not have to be time specific, but as discussed in this and other threads, three years anecdotally tends to be franchise/GM/coach speak for such a process. Again, it isn't time specific.

- From 2001 to 2019, Belichick had a winning record.

- The 2020 season changed; Belichick had a losing record of 7-9.

- Belichick and the Patriots franchise undertook proactive actions through the free agency, the draft, and likely other in-house conversations we are not aware of in order to restore the previous decade plus culture of only winning.

- The 2021 Pats are 9-4, they have secured a winning season. Bill as the GOAT coach is impressive for only taking one offseason to return the franchise back to its winning ways. I suspect in the upcoming seasons, Bill continues to win with Mac as just one component of Patriot success.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-08-2021, 02:54 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: You're as wrong as can be about "nothing else". the Patriots had a busy offseason rebuilding their team. I refer you to:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32167432/will-new-england-patriots-see-results-spending-163-million-free-agency

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2021/11/26/patriots-free-agent-signings-stats-performance-matt-judon-kyle-van-noy-hunter-henry-jonnu-smith-nelson-agholor-kendrick-bourne/

In addition to drafting a new franchise QB, they also used free agency by targeting specific players for their rebuild. It wasn't just about transitioning from Brady to Cam to Mac.

I did forget about Judon, that's a big oversight.

The rest are all former players/little contributors, save for Bourne; in 2 years, we added 9 new FA STARTERS on D (one has been injured, sadly), 2 FA starters on Oline and drafted 1 starter on D, as well as 4 starters on offense, in 2 years. Again, aside from Waynes being injured, all of those above additions have contributed greatly to the bulk of the team's snaps, not a few role players and guys that were brought back.

Not saying that we're the model of how to rebuild, but we have literally improved through ALL our pickups; the Patriots just had a ton of guys opt out last year, got them all back and signed a handful of FAs, while only drafting 3 players that have contributed.

Of their 8 draft picks, only 4 have played and only 3 have played meaningful snaps (because they're already good at those positions). Of our 10, 7 have played and 6 have contributed to the team, with the 3 missing time due to injury and not ineffectiveness (though I have a feeling Hubert wouldn't have done much, especially with a healthy Ossai).

If Mac Jones came out last year and played for the Patriots, they would've still made the playoffs, even with the opt-outs. Newton was the destroyer of the 2020 season for them. They didn't need to, "rebuild," anything.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-08-2021, 03:14 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I did forget about Judon, that's a big oversight.

The rest are all former players/little contributors, save for Bourne; in 2 years, we added 9 new FA STARTERS on D (one has been injured, sadly), 2 FA starters on Oline and drafted 1 starter on D, as well as 4 starters on offense, in 2 years. Again, aside from Waynes being injured, all of those above additions have contributed greatly to the bulk of the team's snaps, not a few role players and guys that were brought back.

Not saying that we're the model of how to rebuild, but we have literally improved through ALL our pickups; the Patriots just had a ton of guys opt out last year, got them all back and signed a handful of FAs, while only drafting 3 players that have contributed.

Of their 8 draft picks, only 4 have played and only 3 have played meaningful snaps (because they're already good at those positions). Of our 10, 7 have played and 6 have contributed to the team, with the 3 missing time due to injury and not ineffectiveness (though I have a feeling Hubert wouldn't have done much, especially with a healthy Ossai).

If Mac Jones came out last year and played for the Patriots, they would've still made the playoffs, even with the opt-outs. Newton was the destroyer of the 2020 season for them.

Well, my take away is that the Patriots had an offseason rebuilding. I'm not making any statements about to what extent the rebuild efforts have or haven't contributed to Bill resuming his winning ways. I also recognize that teams and their GMs/coaches have varying degrees of rebuilding needs. In the Bill v Zac comparison, I'd argue Zac had a more challenging rebuild. I think you're making the same point, so I agree with you that Zac had more he had to improve than Bill. I think Bill's rebuild success is influenced by Mac's success, getting the COVID opt out players back, value in TEs that can block/catch, and a run game focus.

[J24]

(12-08-2021, 01:03 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Exactly that; they got rid of Newton, got their opt-outs back and added 2, "new," players (and Henry hasn't done a whole lot, outside of the 7 TDs). I put new in quotes because Brown was with them previously. Brown also has only played 5 games, so he hasn't done much either.

I get your sentiment on the coaching, but I wouldn't say we have, "meh," coaches; before this year, absolutely (would be even more disparaging than, "meh," TBH), but they have been given time to improve and they clearly have, as well as bringing in new line coaches that have undoubtedly improved the team immensely.

They don't set the world on fire, but the games called, the players reactions and the culture, show that the current staff has improved and may help the team reach heights it hasn't in decades.

Another season like the last 2 and it would be time to move on, but time will tell the worth of the staff, at this point.

Matthew Judon has been a hell of pickup along with Van Noy on defense. Also drafted Christian Baramore who is having a similar impact to the their defense like Atkins did in 2010 for ours. They definitely have improved the roster since last season !

[Destro]

Bengals been rebuilding since 1989.