If Bengals Pick Late, Trade Down

[*ochocincos*]

(01-28-2022, 06:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like the Becton thought as well if the Jets extend Moses. We will see how it plays out.

True on Allen's pass protection, not the greatest but he is ten times the run blocker Hopkins is.

That's kind of the problem with most OL in the league.
Just good at either pass or run, not both.
Very few guys good at both.

I think if the Bengals want to be a run-focused team, they should get good run blockers.
If they wanna be pass-focused, prioritize pass blocking.

You can keep Hopkins at C if you do the latter.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-28-2022, 06:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I loved the Carman pick but it is a tough move from LT to RG in your rookie year. I also think he should be getting a lot more
snaps with how Adeniji has been playing. Carman is clearly a more physical RG or LG and can be a road grader in the run game
unlike Adeniji. I know Carman has some more penalties but he has been the better OL this season IMO and PFF's.

D'Ante Smith could also grow into a good OL but we need some proven vet FA's. A top Center and a top RT.

Brian Allen and Morgan Moses sound good to me as Synric has been saying.

I would have loved it more if it was in the 3rd or 4th round.  Taking him with that pick as a major gamble.  We'll see if it pays off.  I don't think Rounds 1 and 2 are for guys switching positions or guys coming off injuries where you expect them to play year 1.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2022, 06:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's kind of the problem with most OL in the league.
Just good at either pass or run, not both.
Very few guys good at both.

I think if the Bengals want to be a run-focused team, they should get good run blockers.
If they wanna be pass-focused, prioritize pass blocking.

You can keep Hopkins at C if you do the latter.

Feel the same if we can't get OL that are good at both. As you said James Daniels is another option at Center and he is a 
guy who can both run block and pass block well. I would prefer to be good at both of course. But we are more of a passing 
team with our weapons. So pass protection is what we need the most.

(01-28-2022, 06:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would have loved it more if it was in the 3rd or 4th round.  Taking him with that pick as a major gamble.  We'll see if it pays off.  I don't think Rounds 1 and 2 are for guys switching positions or guys coming off injuries where you expect them to play year 1.

I doubt Carman would of lasted much longer than where we took him let alone to the 3rd or 4th. I had him rated at worst
as a early 3rd rounder. I am a bit disappointed that he hasn't contributed more but I still think he can be a top Guard for us 
once he cleans up the penalties and grows. Rookie OL in the 2nd round usually aren't stellar early on.

Creed Humphrey was who I wanted the most who did have a stellar rookie year.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-28-2022, 06:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Feel the same if we can't get OL that are good at both. As you said James Daniels is another option at Center and he is a 
guy who can both run block and pass block well. I would prefer to be good at both of course. But we are more of a passing 
team with our weapons. So pass protection is what we need the most.


I doubt Carman would of lasted much longer than where we took him let alone to the 3rd or 4th. I had him rated at worst
as a early 3rd rounder. I am a bit disappointed that he hasn't contributed more but I still think he can be a top Guard for us 
once he cleans up the penalties and grows. Rookie OL in the 2nd round usually aren't stellar early on.

Creed Humphrey was who I wanted the most who did have a stellar rookie year.

Coming off of back surgery, I thought he would be a 3rd rounder at best.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2022, 07:17 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Coming off of back surgery, I thought he would be a 3rd rounder at best.

That was the concern with him no doubt and it seemed to of slowed him down before the season.

So it stunted his growth early, need to take these things into account when picking players you need to play well right away.

[kevin]

BENGALS IN SUPER BOWL

Why pay 1st round money to a pick at very end of 1st round ? Makes no sense.

Trade back into the top of 2 and maybe add a later pick. Same type player at Round 2 money.

Oh Yes, WHO DEY, BENGALS IN THE SUPER BOWL.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-31-2022, 01:56 AM)kevin Wrote: BENGALS IN SUPER BOWL

Why pay 1st round money to a pick at very end of 1st round ?   Makes no sense.

Trade back into the top of 2 and maybe add a later pick.  Same type player at Round 2 money.

Oh Yes, WHO DEY, BENGALS IN THE SUPER BOWL.

     

 Because of the 5th year option. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-31-2022, 03:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote:  Because of the 5th year option. 

There yah go. Depends on the players that are available also. This isn't something we should be stubborn about doing just 
cause we don't want to pay a first round pick, first round pick money. Makes no sense. Take the BPA for our needs.

[Whatever]

(02-03-2022, 07:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: There yah go. Depends on the players that are available also. This isn't something we should be stubborn about doing just 
cause we don't want to pay a first round pick, first round pick money. Makes no sense. Take the BPA for our needs.

Yup.  It's waaayyy too early to say we should definitely trade up, down, or stay put.  You have to know how FA went.  You have to know who's available.  You have to know what's being offered.  Did a Top 15 prospect fall into our lap?  Is there a glaring hole in the starting lineup and a guy available that fills that need?  Do you need extra draft picks for cheap depth because you went really top heavy in FA and have to fill out the depth chart?  What's the talent drop off?  There's too many variables currently in play.

[XenoMorph]

(01-01-2022, 03:55 PM)kevin Wrote: Players at end of round 1 are not much better than players top of round 2, but they are more expensive to sign.  If Bengals are a play-off team and pick in the last 10 or so, trade back for more picks.  Trade out of 1 and 2 for top picks in 2 and 3 and try to get extra picks in 3 or 4.   So in top of 2, Bengals could add depth at RB with Isaiah Spiller of Texas A&M.  Top of 3 a young Blocker coming out 2 years early in Zion Nelson, an offensive lineman from Miami Florida. The money saved on dropping a few spots down goes to sign extra picks attained in trading down.  if they could add an extra 3rd round and 4th round trading back a little, they could fill even more areas.  

Now some will say why a RB when we have Mixon. Because most NFL teams have a stable of RBs in case of injuries to the top RBs.  A Top round 2 RB, well, Paul Brown always said it's hard o pass on a RB. We could still get a good Blocker top of 3.  Plus maybe add an extra round 3 and 4, or at worst an extra 4 and 5 in trading back a few spots.  It's a sound move financially, and in talent, and in adding extra picks that are not round 6 or 7 but much better in the mid rounds. I would think a few Blockers drafted is still in order.

We have Mixon, Perine, Evans, but a top round 2 RB would really give us a top stable of RBs. Fantasy players can't argue this, because Fantasy players always draft and hoard every single RB in the NFL worth anything. A top pick round 2 RB sets up a top 3 Blocker and another Blocker and other positions if trading down brings a top 2, a top 3 and another 3, and a couple of round 4's.  That is how I hope they would work a late round pick in 1 and 2, trade down into the top of 2 and 3 and add extra good picks doing it.

I post this waiting for Rose Bowl game. I'm hoping Bengals win a lot more games this year and have a good play-off run, so I'm really not into the Draft until Senior Bowl, Combines and Draft more in the Spring.  I can't see a team drafting late in round 1 and paying round 1 money that way.  Trade back into the top of the next round plus an extra draft pick, and get the same type player at top of round 2 and 3 for less than what late round 1 and 2 costs. And Add more Mid Round Picks.  More BANG for the Buck.

depends on whats sitting there.. and how far back we gotta go.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2022, 03:54 AM)Whatever Wrote: Yup.  It's waaayyy too early to say we should definitely trade up, down, or stay put.  You have to know how FA went.  You have to know who's available.  You have to know what's being offered.  Did a Top 15 prospect fall into our lap?  Is there a glaring hole in the starting lineup and a guy available that fills that need?  Do you need extra draft picks for cheap depth because you went really top heavy in FA and have to fill out the depth chart?  What's the talent drop off?  There's too many variables currently in play.

Spot on as usual.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2022, 04:55 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: depends on whats sitting there.. and how far back we gotta go.

Indeed.

What can also be appealing is a team wanting to trade up into the end of the 1st round to get that 5th year option.
If the Bengals get a really good offer like maybe a 3rd rounder (or 2023 2nd rounder) just to move back 5-10 spots into the early 2nd, it might be worth it.

It will be interesting to see what players are still available when Bengals pick.
I'd be ok trading back if there's not some stud DB, DT, or OL still there.

Some OL I'm staying put on:
- Linderbaum (C Iowa)
- Zion Johnson (OG BC)
- Charles Cross (OT Miss St)
- Trevor Penning (OT Northern Iowa)
- Nicholas Petit-Frere (OT Ohio St)

Some DBs I'm staying put on:
- Sauce Gardner (CB UC)
- Roger McCreary (CB Auburn)
- Kaiir Elam (CB Florida)
- Trent McDuffie (CB Washington)

Not sure if I'd care to stay put for many DL, but these are the guys I'd consider taking late 1st:
- DeMarvin Leal (DT Texas A&M)
- Travon Walker (DL Georgia) - Would consider using in a hybrid role of base DE and swing inside, or possibly bulk back up near 300 lb and make permanent DT again

There are some other DTs I like, but I think many should be available early-mid 2nd.

[EatonFan]

The other factor here is something we've never talked about on this board. Since we've made the SB, there will be FAs that want to come here and will sign for possibly less to come.

[SunsetBengal]

This would have made for an interesting poll question. My answer to the OP's question is that it would be conditional, as in the Bengals must not see anyone that they have a top grade on at that slot, and a team must offer them more than "average market compensation" to get to that slot for the guy that they are willing to pay to move up for.

Even a late 1st round pick get's that 5th year option.

[XenoMorph]

(02-09-2022, 09:12 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This would have made for an interesting poll question.  My answer to the OP's question is that it would be conditional, as in the Bengals must not see anyone that they have a top grade on at that slot, and a team must offer them more than "average market compensation" to get to that slot for the guy that they are willing to pay to move up for.

Even a late 1st round pick get's that 5th year option.

trying to remember now when was the last time we didnt use a pick in round 1.

and with the way we have been drafting the last few years it be hard to give it up... Although 31/32 is a big difference from 1&5 lol

[*ochocincos*]

(02-09-2022, 05:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: trying to remember now when was the last time we didnt use a pick in round 1.

and with the way we have been drafting the last few years it be hard to give it up... Although 31/32 is a big difference from 1&5 lol

Imagine staying up late watching Rd 1 of the draft only to then see your team trade out of Rd 1 at the very end of the night lol.
That would be very frustrating.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-09-2022, 05:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: trying to remember now when was the last time we didnt use a pick in round 1.

and with the way we have been drafting the last few years it be hard to give it up... Although 31/32 is a big difference from 1&5 lol

Yes, picking at the end of the round is much different that at the top, however our needs are a bit different than they were 2-3 years ago, as well.  The Bengals have their QB, LT, WR1 WR2, RB, DE, LB, and S positions sitting in place.  Seems to me like they should be able to find a very good RT or interior OL, CB, and DL depth at the end of the rounds.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-31-2022, 01:56 AM)kevin Wrote: BENGALS IN SUPER BOWL

Why pay 1st round money to a pick at very end of 1st round ?   Makes no sense.

Trade back into the top of 2 and maybe add a later pick.  Same type player at Round 2 money.

Oh Yes, WHO DEY, BENGALS IN THE SUPER BOWL.

     

Pick 32 last year (Joe Tryon) - 4 years, $11.171 mill ($2.8 mill APY)
Pick 33 last year (Tyson Campbell) - 4 years, $9 mill ($2.25 mill APY)

You're talking the difference of only $2.1 mill over 4 years.

So yes, you take the someone in Rd 1 for the 5th year option, as they don't really make much more money than someone picked at the very beginning of Rd 2.

[BillsGuy1986]

Kinda funny that all fans have these discussions about the draft, but I've always been the "take the BPA regardless of need guy". Trading up is almost always a bad move. Trading back less so, but the patriots do that all the time and they have had mixed results.

If i'm the GM I am probably more apt to stay put and take the best guy to minimize risk.

[BenZoo2]

Until we see what the roster looks like after free agency and what’s on the board when we pick the topic is kind of moot.

If there’s a good player, especially at a position of need that gets pushed down the board you gotta think long and hard about passing them over.

Then there are the teams drafting in top part of the draft that go bpa because they don’t love the qb options but are willing to overpay to get one still there at 31-2 for the 5th year option.

I don’t see them moving up in rd 1 but I hope they get a 3rd and 4th rd comp pick and if they trade outta rd 1 they the flexibility to move around in 2-4 and get guys they really want


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