Anonymous AFC Personnel Director is not impressed with Burrow

[Frank Booth]

(01-05-2022, 02:24 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Burrow, never got to play in Ryan Day's offense, and LSU's OC was obviously a problem when Joe Brady can come in and get the best college season ever played out of the same dude who just the year before looked like a day 3 draft pick.

What I'm saying is that in Burrow's case in particular, one shouldn't be surprised it wasn't until his senior season that his real potential was on display cuz that was the first time he started for a good OC running a pro style offense.

Had he been named the starter ahead of Haskins, similar success I'm sure would have occurred.....when he was 22.  He may have hit the league more of a Josh Allen dual threat type due to the influence of Urban still being OSU HC at the time, rather than the technician he became at LSU under Brady and a hands off HC in Orgeron but the talent was there.  Haskins didn't win the job by much and it aint like he stunk at the time, he had a helluva year under Ryan Day while Burrow labored under a shitty OC in 18.

For QB's, their teammates and coach and the system are such a huge part of what one can reasonably expect them to accomplish that these things have to be considered much more than with baseball and basketball players and every other position on a football field for that matter.  Chase for instance, or any receiver...what do they do?  They run fast and catch the ball.  A lot easier to just know what pattern YOU have to run as opposed to a QB, who ideally is another OC on the field.  Bit more of a learning curve there.

That's why Kurt Warner's HOF biography skips the part about him stinking up the joint with the Giants.  He played like a HOFer for the Rams and Cards.  With the Giants he was garbage although clearly, in hindsight, he was NOT the problem.

Warner was good when he had hall of fame talent surrounding him

I mean, Marc Bulger replaced Warner and immediately put up pro bowl numbers

Warner was extremely fortunate

[Savagehenry54]

(01-05-2022, 03:03 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Warner was good when he had hall of fame talent surrounding him

I mean, Marc Bulger replaced Warner and immediately put up pro bowl numbers

Warner was extremely fortunate

Marc Bulger?  Pro Bowl?  Definitely a "wtf does that have to do with anything?" grammy nominee.

The body of work speaks for itself.  Chewed up and spit out several times, he kept scrappin, the guy managed to win a title and got robbed of another by egregious referee fuckery (in favor of the Steelers ofc).  Prolly got robbed by Bellichecks spies in the SB against the Pats, when fucface meat chicken boy got his first Lombardi.

He was extremely fortunate, he was good enough at football to make a livin out of it... but he wasn't "lucky", not the way you say.

Tell me which HOF QB just ran out there with bum teammates and shit coaches and got anything done?

You could apply that "surrounded by HOF talent" to any modern era QB.  No research, no google, I have not looked.

Off the top of my head, find me one HOF QB who didnt have some damn fine football talent around em when they compiled their gold jacket resume.  Just one, modern era.  Give it a shot.

[Bronxbengal]

(01-05-2022, 04:28 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Marc Bulger?  Pro Bowl?  Definitely a "wtf does that have to do with anything?" grammy nominee.

The body of work speaks for itself.  Chewed up and spit out several times, he kept scrappin, the guy managed to win a title and got robbed of another by egregious referee fuckery (in favor of the Steelers ofc).  Prolly got robbed by Bellichecks spies in the SB against the Pats, when fucface meat chicken boy got his first Lombardi.

He was extremely fortunate, he was good enough at football to make a livin out of it... but he wasn't "lucky", not the way you say.

Tell me which HOF QB just ran out there with bum teammates and shit coaches and got anything done?

You could apply that "surrounded by HOF talent" to any modern era QB.  No research, no google, I have not looked.

Off the top of my head, find me one HOF QB who didnt have some damn fine football talent around em when they compiled their gold jacket resume.  Just one, modern era.  Give it a shot.

Great post and you are correct. Steelers had Bradshaw and Swan. 49ers had Montana or Young with Jerry Rice. Elway had McCaffrey, Rod Smith and Shannon Sharpe. Payton Manning with the Colts had Marvin Harrison. I believe except McCaffrey and Rod Smith all these WR are hall of fame. So did Bradshaw, Montanan, Manning and Elway get “lucky” with the talent around him?


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[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2022, 03:03 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Warner was good when he had hall of fame talent surrounding him

I mean, Marc Bulger replaced Warner and immediately put up pro bowl numbers

Warner was extremely fortunate

Bulger didn't put up the numbers Warner did, nor did he win like Warner...and what did the Cardinals do after Warner left? They were awful until they got Palmer, and even Palmer didn't lead them to the heights Warner did.

Also, as Savage astutely pointed out, what QB led a team to the Super Bowl without an amazing team around him? You won't find a single one.

Warner was great, and teams were wrong to think he was a fluke. He proved he wasn't in AZ.

[BoomerFan]

I wonder what this personnel director's evaluation for Tom Brady would've been? I'm guessing "near his ceiling" might've been used after winning a few games the first year but before the playoffs.

[Rubekahn29]

(01-05-2022, 03:03 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Warner was good when he had hall of fame talent surrounding him

I mean, Marc Bulger replaced Warner and immediately put up pro bowl numbers

Warner was extremely fortunate

Yeah, but what did either the Rams and Cards do the few years before him and the few years after him? Not a whole lot.

[basballguy]

(01-05-2022, 05:44 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Yeah, but what did either the Rams and Cards do the few years before him and the few years after him? Not a whole lot.

Yep.  

I'm fairly certain if you plug someone in like Mark Sanchez or Qunicy Carter on those teams then you wouldn't get the same production.  A good QB knows how to use the talent around him.  

[pdub2005]

(01-04-2022, 10:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: The weird thing is the guy contradicts himself at the very end, he goes from saying he is "closer to his ceiling than people realize" but a sentence later literally says "He has dog in him and will find ways to continue to improve". In reality, the age thing is very true and was a bit of his knock coming out. That said the age thing is also an "old school" evaluation approach that expected QB's to retire around 33/34. Now with longer careers the reality is that a couple years doesn't make a ton of difference.

In terms of the evaluation, he isn't that far off the top 5 right now so he doesn't need to keep improving at the same rate. If you took Burrow right now and took away 5 interceptions without changing anything else he would be playing at an elite level. Learning to cut down on those interceptions isn't an age issue it is a reps issue you learn from playing in the league and that can improve. 

The one comment that makes no real sense to me is that he said the scheme is QB friendly, I don't see it. This isn't the Shannahan wide zone and boot scheme that we see Tannehill/Baker or half the league running. This has actually been a pretty intricate scheme with "multiple check with me's" and a heavy vertical attacking component.  I wish he would have expanded on that part a bit rather than the generic "QB friendly", because for most people anymore it just means "it doesn't suck".

Plus Burrow just turned 25 last month. 

Oh and to the person asking, the Browns QB from Oklahoma St was Brandon Weeden (sp?) He was hot garbage.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-05-2022, 10:19 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: Plus Burrow just turned 25 last month. 

Oh and to the person asking, the Browns QB from Oklahoma St was Brandon Weeden (sp?) He was hot garbage.

[pdub2005]

(01-05-2022, 10:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote:

I forgot all about that. Thats classic!