Dysfunction in Cleveland

[KillerGoose]

Baker is unhappy with the coaching staff in Cleveland and could be asking for a trade this off-season if things don’t improve.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/browns-qb-baker-mayfield-must-resolve-his-differences-with-kevin-stefanski-soon-in-case-they-need-to-co-exist-next-season-mary-kay-cabot.html

[TecmoBengals]

[XenoMorph]

if you had to choose would you keep the coach or the QB?

[Interceptor]

What are they asking for in exchange for Brian Drew?

[motoarch]

(01-06-2022, 11:13 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: if you had to choose would you keep the coach or the QB?

I mean gun to my head I HAVE to pick one.



















Just shoot me.

[Stewy]

(01-06-2022, 11:13 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: if you had to choose would you keep the coach or the QB?

(01-06-2022, 04:37 PM)motoarch Wrote: I mean gun to my head I HAVE to pick one.



















Just shoot me.

Exactly.

"None of the Above"

[J24]

Honest opinion alert.

Mayfield is better than he gets credit for. No he isn't an elite QB but you can definitely win with him. Cleveland needs to get healthy and get some more help around him at Wr. The future is still bright in Cleveland and they are our toughest competition in the north.

[motoarch]

(01-07-2022, 03:11 AM)J24 Wrote: Honest opinion alert.

Mayfield is better than he gets credit for. No he isn't an elite QB but you can definitely win with him. Cleveland needs to get healthy and get some more help around him at Wr. The future is still bright in Cleveland and they are our toughest competition in the north.

Is he?




Career (first 4 years)

61.6
14,125
92
56
87.8


this season

60.5
3,010
17
13
83.1




In todays NFL those aren't good numbers.  They'er okay for a middle of the pack starter.  His number for this season are on the wrong side of middle of the pack.  Dalton was better than that (not by a lot but better) and he was the poster boy for 'eeh'.


 He's serviceable...ish.  With all the talent on that team there really isn't an excuse for how bad they've been and someone needs to take the blame for that and he is the weakest link. Can you win with him? Well its year 5 and they havent lived up to any of the hype of what they were suppose to

[SunsetBengal]

(01-07-2022, 03:11 AM)J24 Wrote: Honest opinion alert.

Mayfield is better than he gets credit for. No he isn't an elite QB but you can definitely win with him. Cleveland needs to get healthy and get some more help around him at Wr. The future is still bright in Cleveland and they are our toughest competition in the north.

Isn't that along the same lines of what many people said when Andy Dalton was our QB?  They often went on to say that in order to win AD needed a strong team around him to lead, and that despite losing so many times in the playoffs it was always "just one more OL, or one more weapon, or one more pass rusher and this team will be able to get over the hump".  The truth is starting to appear that Mayfield, just like Andy Dalton, is really just an average, capable starter in the NFL and will need to have the perfect supporting cast in order to lead a team to bigger things.

[KillerGoose]

(01-07-2022, 03:11 AM)J24 Wrote: Honest opinion alert.

Mayfield is better than he gets credit for. No he isn't an elite QB but you can definitely win with him. Cleveland needs to get healthy and get some more help around him at Wr. The future is still bright in Cleveland and they are our toughest competition in the north.

These two guys above me have already stated my thoughts but I believe that Baker is essentially the Cleveland Andy Dalton. If you give Baker some of the teams that Andy had, he will do well. However, he is unlikely to ever be the guy. Maybe he will put together an elite season like Dalton did in 2015 but it won't be the norm for him. 

[Stewy]

The truth about Oklahoma's offense.....

#1 - It relies upon having enough receivers in a pattern for at least one guy to be open.
#2 - It is a quick release offense - so reads (mostly done by the coaches) are done pre-snap but there are never more than 2-3 REAL options. In other words the QB will be throwing to 1-2 places based upon the play and due to design and generally weak competition this leads to guys being wide open ALOT.
#3 - Most poor to good Teams (which is 95% of OK schedule on a yearly basis) - can't field the athlete's to cover 1-2 elite + 2-3 good receivers.
#4 - The QB required for this is not necessarily NFL caliber - They may have the arm and the accuracy, but they are not reading defenses pre-snap and are only going through a single progression before the play breaks down.

Over and over the QB's coming out of Lincoln Riley's systems are falling short in the NFL, even the Heisman trophy winners.

#5 - Lincoln Riley went to USC to get elite QB's for his system - and a better chance for elite athlete's at every position.
-To win a national championship with his system, he's going to need an elite QB, that can read the elite defenses their going to see at the National Stage, and he just hasn't had it in OK.

Baker Mayfield was false goods from the beginning.

[KillerGoose]

(01-07-2022, 02:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: The truth about Oklahoma's offense.....

#1 - It relies upon having enough receivers in a pattern for at least one guy to be open.
#2 - It is a quick release offense - so reads (mostly done by the coaches) are done pre-snap but there are never more than 2-3 REAL options.  In other words the QB will be throwing to 1-2 places based upon the play and due to design and generally weak competition this leads to guys being wide open ALOT.
#3 - Most poor to good Teams (which is 95% of OK schedule on a yearly basis) - can't field the athlete's to cover 1-2 elite + 2-3 good receivers.
#4 - The QB required for this is not necessarily NFL caliber - They may have the arm and the accuracy, but they are not reading defenses pre-snap and are only going through a single progression before the play breaks down.  

Over and over the QB's coming out of Lincoln Riley's systems are falling short in the NFL, even the Heisman trophy winners.

#5 - Lincoln Riley went to USC to get elite QB's for his system - and a better chance for elite athlete's at every position.
-To win a national championship with his system, he's going to need an elite QB, that can read the elite defenses their going to see at the National Stage, and he just hasn't had it in OK.

Baker Mayfield was false goods from the beginning.

Murray has been a stud in the NFL so far. Hurts has also been surprisingly okay, primarily due to his rushing ability though. He has nearly 4,000 combined yards and 26 TDs. Same with Murray, though Murray is doing it on significantly better passing efficiency. I think that Baker is falling short, but I don't think Kyler is falling short so far and no one really expected Jalen Hurts to do much so he has surprised folks. He is essentially a Cam Newton-lite type player. 

[*rfaulk34*]

Clickbait. You and many other Cleveland local media continue to be drama stirring reporters with no sources or facts. Don’t put words in my mouth so you can put food on your table. I’m not your puppet. https://t.co/MfHnqWk65s

— Baker Mayfield (@bakermayfield) January 6, 2022

 

[J24]

(01-07-2022, 12:15 PM)motoarch Wrote: Is he?




Career (first 4 years)

61.6
14,125
92
56
87.8


this season

60.5
3,010
17
13
83.1




In todays NFL those aren't good numbers.  They'er okay for a middle of the pack starter.  His number for this season are on the wrong side of middle of the pack.  Dalton was better than that (not by a lot but better) and he was the poster boy for 'eeh'.


 He's serviceable...ish.  With all the talent on that team there really isn't an excuse for how bad they've been and someone needs to take the blame for that and he is the weakest link.  Can you win with him?  Well its year 5 and they havent lived up to any of the hype of what they were suppose to

He has had two good seasons with two bad ones. The Andy Dalton comparison is spot on.

(01-07-2022, 12:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Isn't that along the same lines of what many people said when Andy Dalton was our QB?  They often went on to say that in order to win AD needed a strong team around him to lead, and that despite losing so many times in the playoffs it was always "just one more OL, or one more weapon, or one more pass rusher and this team will be able to get over the hump".  The truth is starting to appear that Mayfield, just like Andy Dalton, is really just an average, capable starter in the NFL and will need to have the perfect supporting cast in order to lead a team to bigger things.

100% fair to call him Dalton but you can say that about 90% of the Franchise QBs in the NFL.  The Burrows and Rodgers of the world do not come along that often. 

I reject the whole premise that Dalton was the problem here. He lead a team to 5 straight playoffs and he got hurt while he was having an MVP season.  It wasn't his fault that the front office blew up the team after 2016 either.

Just because Dalton is a Camry and not the Ferrari that Burrow is doesn't mean he wasn't a good franchise QB for us.

(01-07-2022, 12:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: These two guys above me have already stated my thoughts but I believe that Baker is essentially the Cleveland Andy Dalton. If you give Baker some of the teams that Andy had, he will do well. However, he is unlikely to ever be the guy. Maybe he will put together an elite season like Dalton did in 2015 but it won't be the norm for him. 

And that's 90% of Franchise QBs in the NFL. Is a Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Matt Ryan  really that major of an improvement over Baker? Theoretically they could trade for Wilson or Rodgers but that price tag would be immensely huge.

Also the QB draft prospects are not necessarily awesome this draft

[KillerGoose]

(01-07-2022, 05:01 PM)J24 Wrote: And that's 90% of Franchise QBs in the NFL. Is a Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Matt Ryan  really that major of an improvement over Baker? Theoretically they could trade for Wilson or Rodgers but that price tag would be immensely huge.

Also the QB draft prospects are not necessarily awesome this draft

Yeah, all of those guys are pretty clearly better than Baker IMO. 

[J24]

(01-07-2022, 05:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, all of those guys are pretty clearly better than Baker IMO. 

BS

[KillerGoose]

(01-07-2022, 07:37 PM)J24 Wrote: BS

I'm convinced, that's a stout argument. Great job, champ.

Genuinely though, what makes you believe otherwise? 

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(01-07-2022, 05:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, all of those guys are pretty clearly better than Baker IMO. 

I would disagree on a Jimmy. And todays Matt Ryan.

[KillerGoose]

(01-07-2022, 09:00 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I would disagree on a Jimmy. And todays Matt Ryan.

Out of curiosity, based on what?

[*bengalfan74*]

Mayfield is not IMHO a franchise QB. Is he a bridge type guy ? sure. Is he better than your typical back up level QB ? sure.

Is he a guy to sign to a long term, he's our man contract ? NO