Peak or plateau

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

While I agree, there weren't very many folks lining up the lack of talent and injuries the last couple of years as excuses. If none of that matters, then none of the good fortune does either. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-07-2022, 11:36 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Well I think Zac finally saw the light.And I believe that is,in large part at least,the reason for this teams recent record breaking success.

Earlier in the year,you have to admit,Zac was using very conservative play calling.And when the game was on the line,he did not put the ball,or you might say game in his most valued Offensive player,(Joe Burrows) hands.Now he is.If you look at the Bengals most recent win,against the Kansas City Chiefs,that’s a prime example of aggressive play calling.The most aggressive game I’ve Zac call the entire season.

That’s the identity of this offense,and has been all along.Up tempo aggressive play.Sometimes taking big chances,including going for it on fourth down.That’s not to say that it always works,and I know there  are times that you need to be more conservative.I’m Glad to see that it appears Zac is more than willing now to just turn Burrow loose.

As was the case with the Third and 27 play in the final drive against the Chiefs.Joe ripped that ball downfield to Ja’Maar Chase for a 30 yard completion and first down.Earlier in the year,I do not think Zac would have done that.

Fair enough, but you have to admit.....he got PLENTY of criticism last year for throwing TOO MUCH, and getting Joe hurt in the process. You can't have it both ways. (Even slightly better oline play is the correct answer)

We've been fairly successful on 4th down Zac's entire tenure.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-08-2022, 02:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who gives a shit if Zac is proud of Mixon?  The Bengals are 22nd in rushing yards and 25th in yards per carry.

You didn't mind propping up the Piano Man on stats like these or worse.

[kevin]

(01-07-2022, 10:15 PM)QueenCity Wrote: This may be the most positive post you've had in years.... you okay?

I'll bet you a nickel
that most fans are fickle
says Popeye the Sailor Man

[Daddy-O]

(01-07-2022, 11:36 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Well I think Zac finally saw the light.And I believe that is,in large part at least,the reason for this teams recent record breaking success.

Earlier in the year,you have to admit,Zac was using very conservative play calling.And when the game was on the line,he did not put the ball,or you might say game in his most valued Offensive player,(Joe Burrows) hands.Now he is.If you look at the Bengals most recent win,against the Kansas City Chiefs,that’s a prime example of aggressive play calling.The most aggressive game I’ve Zac call the entire season.

That’s the identity of this offense,and has been all along.Up tempo aggressive play.Sometimes taking big chances,including going for it on fourth down.That’s not to say that it always works,and I know there  are times that you need to be more conservative.I’m Glad to see that it appears Zac is more than willing now to just turn Burrow loose.

As was the case with the Third and 27 play in the final drive against the Chiefs.Joe ripped that ball downfield to Ja’Maar Chase for a 30 yard completion and first down.Earlier in the year,I do not think Zac would have done that.

Agree.  I imagine earlier in the year Zac was trying to protect Burrow as much as possible.  And rightfully so, Burrow needed to come along slowly and Zac had to be scarred from the injury last season (many wanted his head for exposing Burrow so much).

As the season progressed you could see JB getting more and more comfortable.  That, couple with receiver talent became the recipe for the teams success.  Aggressive play calling with again a pass first mentality.  Now they are a match up nightmare for most teams.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Mixon break off a couple long runs in the playoffs due to how teams will have to play the Bengal receivers.  Should be fun to watch.  Hopefully they have hit their stride at the perfect time.  

[KillerGoose]

(01-09-2022, 03:03 AM)bfine32 Wrote: What is your standard? 

I'm shooting for middle of the pack before I start calling something good. That would equate to....

Yards Per Carry - 4.3, currently 4.0 (25th)

EPA per rush - -0.06, currently -0.10 (23rd)

Success Rate - 42%, currently 38% (24th)

Success Rate on short yardage runs (<= 3 yards to go) - 61%, currently 47% (31st)

That is usually what I will look at to try to figure out how good a specific running game is and Cincinnati is bottom of the league in all of those categories. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-09-2022, 02:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Two points

1.  Because this collective euphoria and confidence is identical to what happened after we blew out the Ravens to improve to 5-2.  And again when we blew out the Steelers to improve to 7-4.

2.  I am not being negative.  In fact I am one of the people saying we have the talent to win this year.  I am only being labeled as "negative" because I am not crowning Zac Taylor as a great coach yet.

Zac Taylor can’t be crowned a great coach. Don’t think anybody wants to suggest so. He’s only coached 3 years and hasn’t won a playoff game. But some are selling him short. In the last 5 years Cincy,Detroit, Jacksonville, NYG, and NYJ have all won about the same number of games. Those teams had the same opportunity in drafting high and in free agency to improve. They are still bad. Duke Tobin was in charge of Player Personnel under Marvin. I ask what has changed to turn this team around?

It’s cognitive bias by some. Taylor had a plan to change the losing culture. He wanted a locker room that hung out together (check) he wanted to draft players from winning college teams and team captains (check) he wanted free agents that were from winning teams and team leaders (check). He also brought in some great coaches ( despite his late hire his first year). But as Uzomah said and also Hubbard his consistency and Burrow said his leadership stands out.

But the narrative he should be winning because of the talent is the classic “ can’t see the trees for the forest”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fredtoast]

(01-09-2022, 12:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s cognitive bias by some. Taylor had a plan to change the losing culture. He wanted a locker room that hung out together (check) 

I have not seen any proof that the guys on this team hang out together more than previous teams.

(01-09-2022, 12:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  he wanted to draft players from winning college teams and team captains (check)

Again I see no proof that we draft more players from winning teams than we used to.

(01-09-2022, 12:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:   he wanted free agents that were from winning teams and team leaders (check).

Ricardo Allen from 4-12 Falcons
Eli Apple from 5-11 Panthers
B.W. Webb from 5-11 Giants
Chidobe Awuzie from 6-10 Cowboys
Jon Miller from 6-10 Bills
Riley Reiff from 7-9 Vikings
Samaja Perine from 7-9 WFT
Xavier Su'a-Filo from 8-8 Cowboys

(01-09-2022, 12:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  He also brought in some great coaches (despite his late hire his first year).

Right now I see one good hire (Pollack) on his staff of about 15.

[Soonerpeace]

You absolutely haven’t listened to NUMEROUS player comments and specifically Uzomah stating that players used to not hang out together. Do some research.

Sure there are some players who weren’t team leaders that were free agents. But the big additions were. As far as drafts? Chase and Burrow (LSU) Jonathan Williams (Bama) Carman ( Clemson) and several others were team captains if not on winning teams. I’m going to go through almost all of them to prove to you but I expect a huge acknowledgement you were dead wrong about this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soonerpeace]

(01-09-2022, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have not seen any proof that the guys on this team hang out together more than previous teams.




Again I see no proof that we draft more players from winning teams than we used to.





Ricardo Allen from 4-12 Falcons
Eli Apple from 5-11 Panthers
B.W. Webb from 5-11 Giants
Chidobe Awuzie from 6-10 Cowboys
Jon Miller from 6-10 Bills
Riley Reiff from 7-9 Vikings
Samaja Perine from 7-9 WFT
Xavier Su'a-Filo from 8-8 Cowboys






Right now I see one good hire (Pollack) on his staff of about 15.

So far to prove to you that you are out of your element here on Taylor drafting players with strong character. These are ones you noted.

Reiff Vikings Team Captain
Awouzie Santa Clara Award national football foundation scholar athlete Colorado Buffalo team captain and noted for his extensive community service
Samaje Perine OU Team Captain Danny Wuerful watch list the premier award for college community service. Traveled to Haiti on a mission trip to aid in the earthquake.
Xavier Su’ a-filo spent 2 years of his college career in mission work for the Church of Latter Day Saints UCLA team captain.

As far as coaches Hobby and Walters have been fabulous. Lou never been a DC before has done very well. Brian Callahan getting strong looks as a head coach.

From winning teams was just one area. The subject was changing the culture. The point clearly was he was going to bring in quality players and they needed to fit some parameters.

Reiff, Awouzie’s, and Hilton’s teams were most of their years teams that won a lot of games and played in the playoffs.

Uzomah “ The culture in the locker room is huge. This isn't a job like, 'Oh, we're just going to work, play football. Go to these meetings.' We're the homies. We're brothers in there. We're grinding, having a good time talking to each other, chirping. When we chirp at practice it's not a knock. We're trying to make the other person better. That's the thing that is unique. Sometimes people take that personally and this year we're taking it as, maybe I'll just step up and do my job. The locker room and what the coaches have instilled in us is huge."

Awouzie in his interview this week raved about Taylor and his culture
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shake n Blake]

(01-09-2022, 02:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Two points

1.  Because this collective euphoria and confidence is identical to what happened after we blew out the Ravens to improve to 5-2.  And again when we blew out the Steelers to improve to 7-4.

2.  I am not being negative.  In fact I am one of the people saying we have the talent to win this year.  I am only being labeled as "negative" because I am not crowning Zac Taylor as a great coach yet.

I guess I see your point? We swept the Steelers and Ravens. Blew out the Raiders. Beat KC. But we've also lost to the Chargers, Browns and 49ers.

There's some inconsistency there, but that's the entire conference. With who we've beat and where we're at, I'd say our chances are as good or better than most.

(01-09-2022, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Right now I see one good hire (Pollack) on his staff of about 15.

Lou Anarumo - DC
Brian Callahan - OC
James Casey - TE
Al Golden - LB
Marion Hobby - DL
Steve Jackson - CB
Robert Livingston - S
Dan Pitcher - QB
Troy Walters - WR
and the entire strength and conditioning crew

All of these guys deserve praise for how their groups have performed this year. Not many of our hires had good resumes, but you have to judge them by results, and the results are good.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-09-2022, 11:13 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Agree.  I imagine earlier in the year Zac was trying to protect Burrow as much as possible.  And rightfully so, Burrow needed to come along slowly and Zac had to be scarred from the injury last season (many wanted his head for exposing Burrow so much).

As the season progressed you could see JB getting more and more comfortable.  That, couple with receiver talent became the recipe for the teams success.  Aggressive play calling with again a pass first mentality.  Now they are a match up nightmare for most teams.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Mixon break off a couple long runs in the playoffs due to how teams will have to play the Bengal receivers.  Should be fun to watch.  Hopefully they have hit their stride at the perfect time.  

Such a good point.....and then, this season, when he decided to stick with the run and kinda sorta put Burrow on a pitch count, those SAME fans crucified him for being a "coward".  

[fredtoast]

(01-09-2022, 02:50 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  Lou never been a DC before has done very well.

I guess the problem is that we have a different definition of "very well"

Lou has one of the best defenses that money can buy.  Here are players Bengals have signed for him.

Hendrickson..$15 million per year
Reader...........$13 million 
Hubbard........$10 million
Awuzie..........$ 7 million
Ogunjobi.......$ 6.2 million
Hilton............$ 6 million
Bell...............$ 6 million

And here are the results

Points allowed.....17th
Yards allowed......18th
Yds/play...............21st
3rd down%.........22nd


So what exactly has Lou done "very well"?

[grampahol]

(01-10-2022, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess the problem is that we have a different definition of "very well"

Lou has one of the best defenses that money can buy.  Here are players Bengals have signed for him.

Hendrickson..$15 million per year
Reader...........$13 million 
Hubbard........$10 million
Awuzie..........$ 7 million
Ogunjobi.......$ 6.2 million
Hilton............$ 6 million
Bell...............$ 6 million

And here are the results

Points allowed.....17th
Yards allowed......18th
Yds/play...............21st
3rd down%.........22nd


So what exactly has Lou done "very well"?

Well, he IS a DC and you aren't.. There is that.. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2022, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess the problem is that we have a different definition of "very well"

Lou has one of the best defenses that money can buy.  Here are players Bengals have signed for him.

Hendrickson..$15 million per year
Reader...........$13 million 
Hubbard........$10 million
Awuzie..........$ 7 million
Ogunjobi.......$ 6.2 million
Hilton............$ 6 million
Bell...............$ 6 million

And here are the results

Points allowed.....17th
Yards allowed......18th
Yds/play...............21st
3rd down%.........22nd


So what exactly has Lou done "very well"?

Take Marvin Lewis' outdated, record setting in futility defense and make it at least viable?

[fredtoast]

(01-10-2022, 01:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Take Marvin Lewis' outdated, record setting in futility defense and make it at least viable?

He did not have to do that with Marvin's defense.  The front office bought Lou a new one.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-10-2022, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess the problem is that we have a different definition of "very well"

Lou has one of the best defenses that money can buy.  Here are players Bengals have signed for him.

Hendrickson..$15 million per year
Reader...........$13 million 
Hubbard........$10 million
Awuzie..........$ 7 million
Ogunjobi.......$ 6.2 million
Hilton............$ 6 million
Bell...............$ 6 million

And here are the results

Points allowed.....17th
Yards allowed......18th
Yds/play...............21st
3rd down%.........22nd


So what exactly has Lou done "very well"?

Total Defense and Scoring Defense improved from last year. Spending money doesn’t guarantee anything. Reader and Wayne’s from 2020 and never played. But anybody can see things like holding KC to three points in the second half is an improvement.

We get it you aren’t impressed with this staff. They will win Saturday and get our first NFL Playoff win in 30 years and you’ll be knocking them for whatever obscure point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2022, 01:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He did not have to do that with Marvin's defense.  The front office bought Lou a new one.

Thank goodness, previous staff had ran it into the ground, along with the oline.

[Nepanyrush]

(01-09-2022, 02:50 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: So far to prove to you that you are out of your element here on Taylor drafting players with strong character. These are ones you noted.

Reiff Vikings Team Captain
Awouzie Santa Clara Award national football foundation scholar athlete Colorado Buffalo team captain and noted for his extensive community service
Samaje Perine OU Team Captain Danny Wuerful watch list the premier award for college community service. Traveled to Haiti on a mission trip to aid in the earthquake.
Xavier Su’ a-filo spent 2 years of his college career in mission work for the Church of Latter Day Saints UCLA team captain.

As far as coaches Hobby and Walters have been fabulous. Lou never been a DC before has done very well. Brian Callahan getting strong looks as a head coach.

From winning teams was just one area. The subject was changing the culture. The point clearly was he was going to bring in quality players and they needed to fit some parameters.

Reiff, Awouzie’s, and Hilton’s teams were most of their years teams that won a lot of games and played in the playoffs.

Uzomah “ The culture in the locker room is huge. This isn't a job like, 'Oh, we're just going to work, play football. Go to these meetings.' We're the homies. We're brothers in there. We're grinding, having a good time talking to each other, chirping. When we chirp at practice it's not a knock. We're trying to make the other person better. That's the thing that is unique. Sometimes people take that personally and this year we're taking it as, maybe I'll just step up and do my job. The locker room and what the coaches have instilled in us is huge."

Awouzie in his interview this week raved about Taylor and his culture
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Impressive. I had a feeling that the poster you were responding to had been presenting statistics selectively gathered to support his argument, and was wondering if someone would make the effort to research more thoroughly. 

[TecmoBengals]

(01-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Nepanyrush Wrote: Impressive. I had a feeling that the poster you were responding to had been presenting statistics selectively gathered to support his argument, and was wondering if someone would make the effort to research more thoroughly. 

The poster he referenced often fails to contextualize the data selected while purporting their take is the only correct perspective.