Congrats Tomlin

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Mike Tomlin exemplifies the adage, "the good is the enemy of the great." Don't get me wrong, he does some things extremely well. His ability to evaluate WR talent is probably tops in the entire league. Before some of you state that the GM is responsible for drafting I would point out that during the Cowher years our WR drafting was sub par. Then Tomlin came on board and, with the exact same GM, our WR drafts went through the roof. Sure there have been some misses, but his overall record on this topic is stellar. His players also seem to love him and love playing for him.


That said, his decision making, both pre game day and during the game are sub par. His stubborn sticking with Trubisky cost us at least two games, the first Ravens game especially (Rudolph should have got the nod on that one). His game planning and the teams overall preparedness are also sub par. This is exemplified by sloppy execution and consistent playing down to the level of your opponent. Even when our roster was absolutely stacked Steeler fans were anxious about "trap games", and this team rarely misses an opportunity to make a backup QB look like Tom Brady in his prime (although to be fair that happened under Cowher as well).


In the grand scheme of things we are overall fortunate I guess. Tomlin is a good, not great, coach with some major strengths coupled with glaring weaknesses. He's no Bill Walsh and he's no Rich Kotite. I'd give him a 7 to 7.5 out of 10, but I think the stars will really have to align for us to win another SB under his leadership.

[BengalYankee]

(01-10-2023, 10:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Mike Tomlin exemplifies the adage, "the good is the enemy of the great."  Don't get me wrong, he does some things extremely well.  His ability to evaluate WR talent is probably tops in the entire league.  Before some of you state that the GM is responsible for drafting I would point out that during the Cowher years our WR drafting was sub par.  Then Tomlin came on board and, with the exact same GM, our WR drafts went through the roof.  Sure there have been some misses, but his overall record on this topic is stellar.  His players also seem to love him and love playing for him.  


That said, his decision making, both pre game day and during the game are sub par.  His stubborn sticking with Trubisky cost us at least two games, the first Ravens game especially (Rudolph should have got the nod on that one).  His game planning and the teams overall preparedness are also sub par.   This is exemplified by sloppy execution and consistent playing down to the level of your opponent.  Even when our roster was absolutely stacked Steeler fans were anxious about "trap games", and this team rarely misses an opportunity to make a backup QB look like Tom Brady in his prime (although to be fair that happened under Cowher as well).  


In the grand scheme of things we are overall fortunate I guess.  Tomlin is a good, not great, coach with some major strengths coupled with glaring weaknesses.  He's no Bill Walsh and he's no Rich Kotite.   I'd give him a 7 to 7.5 out of 10, but I think the stars will really have to align for us to win another SB under his leadership.

Not just the NFL, how many head coaches/managers have gone 16 years in a row and NEVER had a losing season in any sport?

While I must say that my two favorite teams or the Bengals and anyone[except for this year against the Ravens] playing against your Stealer squad.
That said I have high respect for Tomlin for being a GREAT coach. 

Who in the current NFL is a Great coach?
Belicheat = Yes, but he has not won a SB without Brady.
Andy Reid = Yes, but he is 1-1 in the SB, sounds familiar.

Was Gruden a Great coach? Some say so as he was a $100 million dollar coach, but the same argument about him using Dungy's players, but Dungy's last year was not 8-8.  Was Sean Payton? One SB win in 16 years, sounds familiar. Rumor is he will be worth millions as a HC. Would Tomlin if he left coaching for a few years? 

Tomlin hater's will say he used Cowher's team to win a SB. BS!!! The Stealers were on a decline with Cowher going 8-8 his last year. Cowher was smart enough to leave a sinking ship. The year the Stealer's "won" the SB was by injuring Carson Palmer in the first round, getting lucky with a shoe string tackle by Pig Ben, and biased referees in the Championship. That team was not a Great team, they did what they had to do to get by. They came in 2nd place in their division.

Why does anyone not say John Harbaugh inherited Brian Billick's SB team? 

So I ask again, who is a Great current NFL coach?

 P.S. You guys don’t deserve Tomlin. I do hope he quits or gets fired and then I will sit back and see your team go sub-par .500 year after year.

Can’t wait.

[GMDino]

(01-11-2023, 04:14 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Not just the NFL, how many head coaches/managers have gone 16 years in a row and NEVER had a losing season in any sport?

While I must say that my two favorite teams or the Bengals and anyone[except for this year against the Ravens] playing against your Stealer squad.
That said I have high respect for Tomlin for being a GREAT coach. 

Who in the current NFL is a Great coach?
Belicheat = Yes, but he has not won a SB without Brady.
Andy Reid = Yes, but he is 1-1 in the SB, sounds familiar.

Was Gruden a Great coach? Some say so as he was a $100 million dollar coach, but the same argument about him using Dungy's players, but Dungy's last year was not 8-8.  Was Sean Payton? One SB win in 16 years, sounds familiar. Rumor is he will be worth millions as a HC. Would Tomlin if he left coaching for a few years? 

Tomlin hater's will say he used Cowher's team to win a SB. BS!!! The Stealers were on a decline with Cowher going 8-8 his last year. Cowher was smart enough to leave a sinking ship. The year the Stealer's "won" the SB was by injuring Carson Palmer in the first round, getting lucky with a shoe string tackle by Pig Ben, and biased referees in the Championship. That team was not a Great team, they did what they had to do to get by. They came in 2nd place in their division.

Why does anyone not say John Harbaugh inherited Brian Billick's SB team? 

So I ask again, who is a Great current NFL coach?

 P.S. You guys don’t deserve Tomlin. I do hope he quits or gets fired and then I will sit back and see your team go sub-par .500 year after year.

Can’t wait.

Steelers went 8-8 after Cowhers Super Bowl.

With essentially the same team and a more experienced Ben Tomlin lost in the first round his first year (a pattern would come of that) and then won a Super Bowl...because of Ben and Holmes and Harrison.

The next year?  They went 9-7...and missed the playoffs.

Since then they have been back to a SB...and lost.

Since then?  Well, lets look at the body of work.


These numbers for Noll are after the last Super Bowl win for his teams.

And Tomlin is now at six...and counting.



Good coach, players like him, but he has many flaws that prevent him from taking his team further than he has already.

[BengalYankee]

(01-11-2023, 10:29 AM)GMDino Wrote: Steelers went 8-8 after Cowhers Super Bowl.

With essentially the same team and a more experienced Ben Tomlin lost in the first round his first year (a pattern would come of that) and then won a Super Bowl...because of Ben and Holmes and Harrison.

The next year?  They went 9-7...and missed the playoffs.

Since then they have been back to a SB...and lost.

Since then?  Well, lets look at the body of work.


These numbers for Noll are after the last Super Bowl win for his teams.

And Tomlin is now at six...and counting.



Good coach, players like him, but he has many flaws that prevent him from taking his team further than he has already.

Why am I defending your guy on a Smack forum?
Like I said I hope he quits or gets fired and then the real fun begins as in Pittsburgh Steelers Pre-1970. 

So you blame Tomlin his first year for his first round loss, but the next year when they won the SB you don't give him the credit? You know what you sound like right?

Pig Ben was horrible in his SB with Cowher with a passer rating of 22.6  9/21 for 123 yards and 2 interceptions.
Pig Ben was decent in his SB with Tomlin with a passer rating of 93.2  21/30 for 256 yards   1 TD 1 interception

Tomlin regular season 0.636    8-9 postseason   overall  0.625
Cowher regular season 0.619   12-9 postseason overall 0.619

I see you slyly did not answer my questions who currently in the NFL is a Great head coach, the one SB win Andy Reid? Is Sean Payton 1SB win?
Is $100 million dollar coach Gruden 1 SB win?

What about John Madden 1 SB win right? 
I happen to like like the Old Raiders and their culture/fighting. I know one Bengal fan here whined about Tomlins culture.
As the greatest Owner of the NFL said "Just win baby"

So who if not currently, but recently are Great HC?s

I would say Belicheat is, but also he is nothing without Brady. 

Recently, I would give it to the three Bill's.

Bill Walsh = Yes
Bill Parcells = Yes
Bill Belicheat = Yes

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-11-2023, 04:14 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Not just the NFL, how many head coaches/managers have gone 16 years in a row and NEVER had a losing season in any sport?

While I must say that my two favorite teams or the Bengals and anyone[except for this year against the Ravens] playing against your Stealer squad.
That said I have high respect for Tomlin for being a GREAT coach. 

Who in the current NFL is a Great coach?
Belicheat = Yes, but he has not won a SB without Brady.
Andy Reid = Yes, but he is 1-1 in the SB, sounds familiar.

Was Gruden a Great coach? Some say so as he was a $100 million dollar coach, but the same argument about him using Dungy's players, but Dungy's last year was not 8-8.  Was Sean Payton? One SB win in 16 years, sounds familiar. Rumor is he will be worth millions as a HC. Would Tomlin if he left coaching for a few years? 

Tomlin hater's will say he used Cowher's team to win a SB. BS!!! The Stealers were on a decline with Cowher going 8-8 his last year. Cowher was smart enough to leave a sinking ship. The year the Stealer's "won" the SB was by injuring Carson Palmer in the first round, getting lucky with a shoe string tackle by Pig Ben, and biased referees in the Championship. That team was not a Great team, they did what they had to do to get by. They came in 2nd place in their division.

Why does anyone not say John Harbaugh inherited Brian Billick's SB team? 

So I ask again, who is a Great current NFL coach?

 P.S. You guys don’t deserve Tomlin. I do hope he quits or gets fired and then I will sit back and see your team go sub-par .500 year after year.

Can’t wait.

EDIT: Sorry. Replied to the wrong post.

[*Synric*]

The Squeelers pulling out a winning season week 18 made the Cincinnati Bengals the Leader of the Toughest Division in the AFC.

[*michaelsean*]

Damn these old threads. I just repped Faulk on a post from 2003.

[StoneTheCrow]

(01-11-2023, 12:38 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Damn these old threads. I just repped Faulk on a post from 2003.

We need to tie a cinder block tied to the feet of this thread and push it into the Ohio River.

[GMDino]

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Why am I defending your guy on a Smack forum?

I assume it's a trauma response.  

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Like I said I hope he quits or gets fired and then the real fun begins as in Pittsburgh Steelers Pre-1970. 

I'm not calling for him to do either.  I just acknowledge he has many faults that come to a head in the playoffs.

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: So you blame Tomlin his first year for his first round loss, but the next year when they won the SB you don't give him the credit? You know what you sound like right?

I literally said he took the same team to the playoffs, lost and then won a Super Bowl.  I did not deny him any credit for that.  I was pointing out that with that same team he went 9-7 after the Super Bowl and missed the playoffs just like Cowher went 8-8 after his win...with mostly that same team.

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Pig Ben was horrible in his SB with Cowher with a passer rating of 22.6  9/21 for 123 yards and 2 interceptions.
Pig Ben was decent in his SB with Tomlin with a passer rating of 93.2  21/30 for 256 yards   1 TD 1 interception

Aye.  I mentioned Ben was more experienced under Tomlin.

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Tomlin regular season 0.636    8-9 postseason   overall  0.625
Cowher regular season 0.619   12-9 postseason overall 0.619

Yep. Despite combining the two, Cowher had the better playoff record w/o the kind of teams that Tomlin had.  

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: I see you slyly did not answer my questions who currently in the NFL is a Great head coach, the one SB win Andy Reid? Is Sean Payton 1SB win?
Is $100 million dollar coach Gruden 1 SB win?

What about John Madden 1 SB win right? 
I happen to like like the Old Raiders and their culture/fighting. I know one Bengal fan here whined about Tomlins culture.
As the greatest Owner of the NFL said "Just win baby"

I don't get a vote for the HOF.  I believe Tomlin will get in.  And when he does they'll go on and on about how he had this streak of non-losing seasons.  that streak isn't a bad thing...it's just overrated IMHO because it hasn't translated to anything in the postseason.  

I think Madden is overrated too.  

He had a super short career that was wildly successful as far as winning percentage goes, and he had the unfortunate case of coaching when there were a couple dominant teams in the league in his conference that he had to play in the playoffs.  If not for injuries the Steelers had he may never had reached a Super Bowl.  But I think he gets a lot of fluff because people "liked him" as an announcer.  

But lets look at the names you listed:

Andy Reid - Regular season: 247 138 1 .641 Playoffs: 19 16 .543
Never missed the playoffs more than two years in a row.
Only five (5) one and done in 17 appearances (with two different teams) and counting.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 6.  Same as Tomlin.

Sean Payton - Regular Season: 152 89 0 .631 Playoffs:9 8 .529
Missed the playoffs three years in a row once.
Two (2) one and done in nine appearances.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 3

Jon Gruden - Regular Season: 117 112 0 .511 Playoffs: 5 4 .556
On the verge of missing the playoffs for the 4th straight year before he resigned.
Two (2) one and done in five appearances.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 9 (before he resigned)

Of those I think Reid is a great coach, Payton is about as good as Tomlin, Gruden is NOT a great coach even with a SB win.

And the "a win is a win" crowd means nothing to me either.  When the Steelers started 11-0 a few years back I kept telling everyone it was a false record and the team's lack of growth and improvement would catch up to them.  A 1-4 run later and they were one and done...again.

(01-11-2023, 11:31 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: So who if not currently, but recently are Great HC?s

I would say Belicheat is, but also he is nothing without Brady. 

Recently, I would give it to the three Bill's.

Bill Walsh = Yes
Bill Parcells = Yes
Bill Belicheat = Yes

I can't argue with that list.  

But to sum up I think Tomlin is good.  Players love him and will do whatever he tells them.  They want to win for him.  I just don't believe he is great.  His assistant coach hires are bad, his time management is bad, he doesn't make adjustments in game, etc.

The things he is NOT good at show up in the playoffs more.  Sometimes the players will to win overcomes that...but that doesn't make him a great coach, in my opinion.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-09-2023, 06:52 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:   = 

.....in response to the Stoolers nonsense.....

[BengalYankee]

(01-11-2023, 01:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: I assume it's a trauma response.  



I'm not calling for him to do either.  I just acknowledge he has many faults that come to a head in the playoffs.


I literally said he took the same team to the playoffs, lost and then won a Super Bowl.  I did not deny him any credit for that.  I was pointing out that with that same team he went 9-7 after the Super Bowl and missed the playoffs just like Cowher went 8-8 after his win...with mostly that same team.



Aye.  I mentioned Ben was more experienced under Tomlin.


Yep. Despite combining the two, Cowher had the better playoff record w/o the kind of teams that Tomlin had.  


I don't get a vote for the HOF.  I believe Tomlin will get in.  And when he does they'll go on and on about how he had this streak of non-losing seasons.  that streak isn't a bad thing...it's just overrated IMHO because it hasn't translated to anything in the postseason.  

I think Madden is overrated too.  

He had a super short career that was wildly successful as far as winning percentage goes, and he had the unfortunate case of coaching when there were a couple dominant teams in the league in his conference that he had to play in the playoffs.  If not for injuries the Steelers had he may never had reached a Super Bowl.  But I think he gets a lot of fluff because people "liked him" as an announcer.  

But lets look at the names you listed:

Andy Reid - Regular season: 247 138 1 .641 Playoffs: 19 16 .543
Never missed the playoffs more than two years in a row.
Only five (5) one and done in 17 appearances (with two different teams) and counting.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 6.  Same as Tomlin.

Sean Payton - Regular Season: 152 89 0 .631 Playoffs:9 8 .529
Missed the playoffs three years in a row once.
Two (2) one and done in nine appearances.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 3

Jon Gruden - Regular Season: 117 112 0 .511 Playoffs: 5 4 .556
On the verge of missing the playoffs for the 4th straight year before he resigned.
Two (2) one and done in five appearances.
Longest streak without a playoff win (one and done/DNP) - 9 (before he resigned)

Of those I think Reid is a great coach, Payton is about as good as Tomlin, Gruden is NOT a great coach even with a SB win.

And the "a win is a win" crowd means nothing to me either.  When the Steelers started 11-0 a few years back I kept telling everyone it was a false record and the team's lack of growth and improvement would catch up to them.  A 1-4 run later and they were one and done...again.


I can't argue with that list.  

But to sum up I think Tomlin is good.  Players love him and will do whatever he tells them.  They want to win for him.  I just don't believe he is great.  His assistant coach hires are bad, his time management is bad, he doesn't make adjustments in game, etc.

The things he is NOT good at show up in the playoffs more.  Sometimes the players will to win overcomes that...but that doesn't make him a great coach, in my opinion.

1 SB win + 1 SB loss = Andy Reid = Mike Tomlin[16 years non-losing season] = Great Coach

Hate current KC Chiefs >>>
Hate all-time Pittsburgh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Love 1970's Oakland Raiders kicked Stealers asses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



 

[GMDino]

(01-11-2023, 05:22 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: 1 SB win + 1 SB loss = Andy Reid = Mike Tomlin[16 years non-losing season] = Great Coach

Hate current KC Chiefs >>>
Hate all-time Pittsburgh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Love 1970's Oakland Raiders kicked Stealers asses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



 

Great coach to you.  Good coach to me.

He'll be in the HOF anyway.

Raiders 7-6 against the Steelers from 1970-1980...2-3 in the playoffs.

Raiders one one AFC Championship. in the 70's.

Yep...really "kicked ass". 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

When the Bengals beat the Ravens this weekend, they will have more playoff wins in the last 12 years than the Steelers. A span during which the Steelers lost in the playoffs to Tim Tebow, Blake Bortles, and Baker Mayfield.

[BengalYankee]

(01-11-2023, 10:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: When the Bengals beat the Ravens this weekend, they will have more playoff wins in the last 12 years than the Steelers. A span during which the Steelers lost in the playoffs to Tim Tebow, Blake Bortles, and Baker Mayfield.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(01-11-2023, 10:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: When the Bengals beat the Ravens this weekend, they will have more playoff wins in the last 12 years than the Steelers. A span during which the Steelers lost in the playoffs to Tim Tebow, Blake Bortles, and Baker Mayfield.

It’s not like the Bengals had an amazing twelve year stretch either.  All three of those playoff wins came in just one season. And in that same stretch, you lost to Matt Schaub and T.J. Yates.  

[*michaelsean*]

(01-12-2023, 11:45 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: It’s not like the Bengals had an amazing twelve year stretch either.  All three of those playoff wins came in just one season. And in that same stretch, you lost to Matt Schaub and T.J. Yates.  

And Sanchez.  It would be weird though to have the longest streak of not winning the playoffs, and then matching a team like the Steelers playoff wins over 12 years.  Obviously a cherry picked span, so a little weird.

Edit: I think Sanchez was 2009 so not in the last 12 years, but next door.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(01-12-2023, 06:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And Sanchez.  It would be weird though to have the longest streak of not winning the playoffs, and then matching a team like the Steelers playoff wins over 12 years.  Obviously a cherry picked span, so a little weird.

Edit: I think Sanchez was 2009 so not in the last 12 years, but next door.

Well, if we’re doing to count that, let’s also count the Steelers 2010 - two more wins.  

[*michaelsean*]

(01-12-2023, 07:54 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Well, if we’re doing to count that, let’s also count the Steelers 2010 - two more wins.  

The Bengals’ four this year will put them ahead by two then.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-11-2023, 04:14 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Not just the NFL, how many head coaches/managers have gone 16 years in a row and NEVER had a losing season in any sport?

The same number who've had a franchise QB their entire HC career with the exception of this season.

Quote:While I must say that my two favorite teams or the Bengals and anyone[except for this year against the Ravens] playing against your Stealer squad.
That said I have high respect for Tomlin for being a GREAT coach. 

Cool, if you think Tomlin is a great coach then more power to you.  I don't share that view.

Quote:Who in the current NFL is a Great coach?
Belicheat = Yes, but he has not won a SB without Brady.
Andy Reid = Yes, but he is 1-1 in the SB, sounds familiar.

Was Gruden a Great coach? Some say so as he was a $100 million dollar coach, but the same argument about him using Dungy's players, but Dungy's last year was not 8-8.  Was Sean Payton? One SB win in 16 years, sounds familiar. Rumor is he will be worth millions as a HC. Would Tomlin if he left coaching for a few years? 

There was a time I could have rattled off a list of coaches.  I follow the NFL, outside of the Steelers, so casually now I doubt I could name more than ten.  That being said, a dearth of "great" coaches doesn't make Tomlin one by default.  If everyone in the class got a B grade or lower, that doesn't make the B students A students by default.

Quote:Tomlin hater's will say he used Cowher's team to win a SB. BS!!! The Stealers were on a decline with Cowher going 8-8 his last year. Cowher was smart enough to leave a sinking ship. The year the Stealer's "won" the SB was by injuring Carson Palmer in the first round, getting lucky with a shoe string tackle by Pig Ben, and biased referees in the Championship. That team was not a Great team, they did what they had to do to get by. They came in 2nd place in their division.

I always get a wry chuckle out of the Bengals fans who think they would have won the SB the year Carson got hurt.  I know it's a soothing balm on your gestalt ego for being a franchise mired largely in epic failure.  Cowher was not a "great" coach either, and in fact shared many of Tomlin's weaknesses.  But to say a roster loaded with talent and future HOF'ers was "on the decline" is just silly.

Quote:Why does anyone not say John Harbaugh inherited Brian Billick's SB team? 

I'm sure some do.  I know for damn sure that many say Gruden won a SB with Dungy's team in Tampa.  

Quote:So I ask again, who is a Great current NFL coach?

As I said above, I don't really know, nor does it matter.  I can say, very comfortably, that Tomlin is not a "great coach".  He's good, he has some definite strengths, but he's also got some glaring weaknesses that he is never going to grow out of.

 

Quote:P.S. You guys don’t deserve Tomlin. I do hope he quits or gets fired and then I will sit back and see your team go sub-par .500 year after year.

Can’t wait.

Oh, he'll never be fired, so put the popcorn on hold.  Realistic Steelers fans know two things, Tomlin is a good, not great coach and the Steelers will never fire him.  I'll close by again stating you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

[BengalYankee]

(01-12-2023, 10:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The same number who've had a franchise QB their entire HC career with the exception of this season.

Ben Roethlisberger had two losing seasons.



2006 7-8
2019 0-2


Tomlin losing seasons 


You bring ...