A few things

[Devils Advocate]

It infuriates me when our team seemingly refuses to run a quick play, after a play that is close, where the opposing coach may wish to challenge.

The 20 yard completion to Sanu(?), where he was ruled down by contact after Pettine challenged, exemplifies this point. And it has happened several times over, going all the way back to the Palmer era.

I think I can recall once where they've tried to hurry the next play to avoid a challenge.



It's clear as day that Jeremy Hill's downturn is all in his head due to his fumbling issues. He's worried about losing the ball which is costing him yards. We all want less fumbles so I don't know how to remedy this but it seems maybe that the coaches have gotten into his head a bit too much. Maybe another approach can bring better balance to keeping him conscience of holding onto the ball yet thoughtful enough to think about where he's running.


At some point The Browns have to live or die with Manziel to see if he can help or not.

I thought he did some good things last night. He's definitely more dangerous outside of the pocket, but he also showed that he can do good things while in the pocket. He made some nice throws ( some poor ones too ) and crisp decisions at times while remaining in the pocket. I don't know if he's the answer in Cleveland or anywhere, but you've gotta see what you've got over the course of more than just a few games. I do know that Pettine isn't the answer. The guy is clueless. I missed the halftime interviews they do with the coaches so I don't know how true this quote is but the reporter asked Pettine about the first half and he said 'we've gotta keep Johnny in the pocket. They then asked Marvin about the upcoming second half and he said 'we've gotta keep Johnny in the pocket'. Lol. 

I have one more thought on bye weeks vs TNFB.

Why not simply do away with official bye weeks. That way each team can play a Thursday night game with plenty of rest. I'm too lazy to do the math. I wonder if it works out? I guess it's essentially a bye week before a Thursday game but without the structure of a 'bye week' and the scheduling complications exposed by it. Am I missing something with this thought?

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2015, 01:06 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Why not simply do away with official bye weeks. That way each team can play a Thursday night game with plenty of rest. I'm too lazy to do the math. I wonder if it works out? I guess it's essentially a bye week before a Thursday game but without the structure of a 'bye week' and the scheduling complications exposed by it. Am I missing something with this thought?

A lot of people have made the same suggestion.  Instead of a two-week break with no game the teams gets a 11 day break before the Thursday game and a ten day break after it.

[Devils Advocate]

(11-06-2015, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of people have made the same suggestion.  Instead of a two-week break with no game the teams gets a 11 day break before the Thursday game and a ten day break after it.

I wasn't aware this has been suggested. Just proves what I've been told once in my life, that I'm blazing down a beaten path, lol. 

What do you think about Hill? 

[masterpanthera_t]

(11-06-2015, 01:06 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: It infuriates me when our team seemingly refuses to run a quick play, after a play that is close, where the opposing coach may wish to challenge.

The 20 yard completion to Sanu(?), where he was ruled down by contact after Pettine challenged, exemplifies this point. And it has happened several times over, going all the way back to the Palmer era.

I think I can recall once where they've tried to hurry the next play to avoid a challenge.



It's clear as day that Jeremy Hill's downturn is all in his head due to his fumbling issues. He's worried about losing the ball which is costing him yards. We all want less fumbles so I don't know how to remedy this but it seems maybe that the coaches have gotten into his head a bit too much. Maybe another approach can bring better balance to keeping him conscience of holding onto the ball yet thoughtful enough to think about where he's running.


At some point The Browns have to live or die with Manziel to see if he can help or not.

I thought he did some good things last night. He's definitely more dangerous outside of the pocket, but he also showed that he can do good things while in the pocket. He made some nice throws ( some poor ones too ) and crisp decisions at times while remaining in the pocket. I don't know if he's the answer in Cleveland or anywhere, but you've gotta see what you've got over the course of more than just a few games. I do know that Pettine isn't the answer. The guy is clueless. I missed the halftime interviews they do with the coaches so I don't know how true this quote is but the reporter asked Pettine about the first half and he said 'we've gotta keep Johnny in the pocket. They then asked Marvin about the upcoming second half and he said 'we've gotta keep Johnny in the pocket'. Lol. 

I have one more thought on bye weeks vs TNFB.

Why not simply do away with official bye weeks. That way each team can play a Thursday night game with plenty of rest. I'm too lazy to do the math. I wonder if it works out? I guess it's essentially a bye week before a Thursday game but without the structure of a 'bye week' and the scheduling complications exposed by it. Am I missing something with this thought?

I think part of the reason they're not able to run a quick play is that they have to wait on the officials to spot the ball and by that time it seems that the other coach is ready to challenge.  

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2015, 01:06 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: At some point The Browns have to live or die with Manziel to see if he can help or not.

That would make sense with any other team, but the Browns won't give a head coach more than one year.  So the coach feels he does not have any time to develop Mainzel.  He has to win as many games as possible this year.  Especially when it looks like an AFC team might get a wildcard with just an 8-8 record.

[XenoMorph]

Eifert is gonna be expensive that is all

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2015, 01:13 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: What do you think about Hill? 

It is a mystery.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it actually seems that the blocking is not the same for him as it is for Gio.  A lot of people are claiming that Hill is dancing and not hitting the holes.  I agree I have seen a little of that, but I have also seen him get hit in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage when it is just not his fault.  

[Devils Advocate]

(11-06-2015, 01:14 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I think part of the reason they're not able to run a quick play is that they have to wait on the officials to spot the ball and by that time it seems that the other coach is ready to challenge.  

Yeah but I see teams accomplish a quick play with this scenario every single week.

If anything you stand a chance of making the opponents burn a TO.

People think Marvin is an idiot for trying to ice kickers. But he's actually been pretty effective at icing them.

[Au165]

There was a graphic abut how far hill has too run to get 1 yard versus Gio, and he runs a like 2 more yards for every one yard he gains in comparison. This means that he moves further laterally versus Gio. Hill still does too many "moves" behind the line where as Gio is more of a true one cut runner. Hill needs to get back to one cut and just go, even if a guy is there go. Gio has been very good at hitting a whole and making contact yet still getting a few extra yards after.

[XenoMorph]

(11-06-2015, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is a mystery.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it actually seems that the blocking is not the same for him as it is for Gio.  A lot of people are claiming that Hill is dancing and not hitting the holes.  I agree I have seen a little of that, but I have also seen him get hit in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage when it is just not his fault.  

even on one of his bigger runs last night he was shaking his shoulders trying to fake guys out instead of just plowing ahead.

[*michaelsean*]

They aren't getting rid of the byes. It gives them a 17 week televisedseason as opposed to a 16 week.

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2015, 01:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They aren't getting rid of the byes.  It gives them a 17 week televisedseason as opposed to a 16 week.

There would still be an extra week added to the season.  They just need to tie the off week to the Thursday night game.

[Devils Advocate]

(11-06-2015, 01:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: There was a graphic abut how far hill has too run to get 1 yard versus Gio, and he runs a like 2 more yards for every one yard he gains in comparison. This means that he moves further laterally versus Gio. Hill still does too many "moves" behind the line where as Gio is more of a true one cut runner. Hill needs to get back to one cut and just go, even if a guy is there go. Gio has been very good at hitting a whole and making contact yet still getting a few extra yards after.

I see that too. Kinda reminds me how a few years ago Brandon Tate asked Adam Jones about returns and Adam told him to catch and go. Well Tate did and immediately was rewarded with a TD. But inexplicably discarded that advice. However, last night he did it again and had a great return, despite it being called back. 

Back to Jeremy. He does hesitate but I think it's because he's worried about fumbling. 

[Devils Advocate]

(11-06-2015, 01:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That would make sense with any other team, but the Browns won't give a head coach more than one year.  So the coach feels he does not have any time to develop Mainzel.  He has to win as many games as possible this year.  Especially when it looks like an AFC team might get a wildcard with just an 8-8 record.

Yeah I know. Marvin isn't without his faults but at least in Cinci whether you're a coach or player, you're gonna fulfill the duration of your contract and I can appreciate that. It boggles my mind that FA's haven't considered that over the years.

Obviously Cleveland's carrousel hasn't worked. Hugh would be ideal for them and then just stick with him for the long haul.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-06-2015, 01:27 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I see that too. Kinda reminds me how a few years ago Brandon Tate asked Adam Jones about returns and Adam told him to catch and go. Well Tate did and immediately was rewarded with a TD. But inexplicably discarded that advice. However, last night he did it again and had a great return, despite it being called back. 

Back to Jeremy. He does hesitate but I think it's because he's worried about fumbling. 

Maybe that and good RBs generally follow their blockers.  I think they need to feed him the ball more.  Last year, all of his 100 yard games came in games in which he got more than 20 carries.  The most he has gotten this year is 19 in the Raiders game to start the season.  He got 16 in the Bills game.