(02-11-2022, 10:12 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: He is definitely saying joe will start considering leaving depending on what the Bengals do this off-season. I posted the video for a reason
First, Carson states that what Joe maybe thinking after this season in that he has a ton of leverage in order for him to re-sign. You neglect on purpose I think to write to help build the team around him including Chase, Higgins, Oline, etc, because he would want 7 Championships.
Did he not say that???
Do you want the Front Office to give the max and more to Burrow and no one else???
Don't you want to win 7 Championships????
Second of Joe is still under contract for the next two years. The team has an option year with the 5th year. The team and Joe can't negotiate until I believe after the 3rd year. This would be Joe's 2nd year.
But please tell me the minute and second where Carson uses YOUR keyword leave??
(02-11-2022, 02:21 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: You don't need super stars to make a good free agency or off season. See Rikey, Eli, Larry, BJ, Chido, trey, flowers, Hilton, reader, Wayans albeit a huge miss it was an aggressive move. Carson can move right along. Joe did in one season what he couldn't do in 15
I dont disagree with you at all regarding FA. Im just saying Carson doesnt seem to be as in tune with these FA's because we didnt really have any stars, as he was discussing Von Miller and Ramsey, etc.
(02-10-2022, 12:27 PM)34inXXIII Wrote: Houshmandzadeh said the team was given used jock straps, which is equally as absurd but we like him so don't question it or his motives.
I can confirm Houshmandzadeh's claim because one of those used jock straps is mine, I contributed to do my part as a Bengal fan!
(02-11-2022, 02:21 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: First, Carson states that what Joe maybe thinking after this season in that he has a ton of leverage in order for him to re-sign. You neglect on purpose I think to write to help build the team around him including Chase, Higgins, Oline, etc, because he would want 7 Championships.
Did he not say that???
Do you want the Front Office to give the max and more to Burrow and no one else???
Don't you want to win 7 Championships????
Second of Joe is still under contract for the next two years. The team has an option year with the 5th year. The team and Joe can't negotiate until I believe after the 3rd year. This would be Joe's 2nd year.
But please tell me the minute and second where Carson uses YOUR keyword leave??
I think the point is (i mentioned this earlier).... Carson is assuming Joe (win or lose) is going to be thinking about his future with the team after the super bowl. Whereas we all think (since none of us know either), Joe will be thinking "What will the Bengals be doing to get us back to the Super Bowl"....not "Will the Bengals do anything to get us back to the Super Bowl". It's a slight nuance but reflective of negative thinking versus positive thinking.
Why does Palmer assume JB will being thinking in a negative context? That's why i think he sounds bitter. All his points are valid points....there's just no reason to imply JB is worried about what the Bengals will do if he hasn't said so himself.
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
(02-11-2022, 02:10 PM)basballguy Wrote: I had thought i'd seen everything from yesterday, thanks for correcting...more below.
What i'm implying with my snarky comment about Palmer is....why is he assuming Burrow will be contemplating his future after the Super Bowl? I'm not in JB's head anymore than Palmer is but he's acting like he knows what Burrow is thinking.
We can all go off what we've seen or heard and I remember when Chase was drafted JB saying (paraphrasing) "When they took Ja'Marr it made me feel like I was part of the process even though I wasn't part of the process". Comments like that would indicate Joe might have a more optimistic view than what Palmer is implying. Palmer was always thinking "Will they?" I don't think it's fair for Palmer to assume JB thinks the same way.
If i'm Burrow, I would've already assumed the Bengals FO is doing what it takes to win because I've seen it first hand...with the draft and with Free Agency.
All of Palmers talking points are valid. All I'm saying is he sounds bitter by saying Joe is contemplating his future with the Bengals. Just because Palmer had a terrible experience (and I agree he was put in a no-win situation) doesn't mean every QB is thinking like he was.
I dont disagree. I think Carson could have worded things better, i also think he isnt very educated on the latest happenings of the Bengals, and I have zero doubt he is still bitter.
But I see his comments as his experience of the promise of the FO doing whatever it took and lying about it that he doesnt want Joe to fall for anything. I also think he is advocating for Joe and us fans for continued success.
(02-11-2022, 02:21 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: First, Carson states that what Joe maybe thinking after this season in that he has a ton of leverage in order for him to re-sign. You neglect on purpose I think to write to help build the team around him including Chase, Higgins, Oline, etc, because he would want 7 Championships.
Did he not say that???
Do you want the Front Office to give the max and more to Burrow and no one else???
Don't you want to win 7 Championships????
Second of Joe is still under contract for the next two years. The team has an option year with the 5th year. The team and Joe can't negotiate until I believe after the 3rd year. This would be Joe's 2nd year.
But please tell me the minute and second where Carson uses YOUR keyword leave??
(02-11-2022, 02:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagreeing with you at all regarding FA. Im just saying Carson doesnt seem to be as in tune with these FA's because we didnt really have any stars, as he was discussing Von Miller and Ramsey, etc.
Ok. But then still a silly narrative for him to push. Our FO isn't perfect and I think we all would've liked to see a better oline this year but it seems like the MO has changed a bit and this season should only help.
Maybe this makes me sound overly sensitive, but **** it.
My issue isn't with WHAT Palmer is saying. Taking at face value, he makes a perfectly fair point. My issue is that he is saying this NOW, literally two days before the Bengals play the most important game in franchise history. If there was ever a time to speculate on Burrow's future with the team after his rookie deal is up, this sure as **** isn't it. He came back from a devastating injury and led the team to a Super Bowl appearance against all odds. The city is in an absolute frenzy. Read the ***** room, man.
Congratulate the team and the city, wish Joe Burrow all the best, and leave it at that for now. Any discussion about what Burrow might do after his rookie deal sounds like unnecessary projection on Palmer's part. At the very least wait until the off season to have this discussion. But two days before the Super Bowl? Come on.
(02-11-2022, 10:12 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: He is definitely saying joe will start considering leaving depending on what the Bengals do this off-season. I posted the video for a reason
Sometimes you can say things without actually saying them. I'm sure someone will have a sarcastic reply to that, but some people can communicate a point without being blunt. The whole interview was like watching a dark cloud...and here we are arguing CP on what should be the best week of our fandom.
(02-11-2022, 10:37 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I do disagree in a couple areas.
- EVERYONE states that the Rams are littered with stars... because they are. He has stated over and over how special Joe and Chase are, other than those 2 we dont have any true NFL stars. We know how special our guys are but even DJ Reader gets no media love. I think your fandom is clouding this point. Besides the David and Goliath reference isnt always negative, many many people see us this position. Keep in mind how much more knowledgeable you are than outsiders.
- There is no way in the world we can blame someone for voicing concerns due to their past experiences. He has much more validated knowledge of how things were, which obviously shapes his opinion. But you are wrong in stating that he "Projected" a worst case scenario. He simply asked the question "Will the Bengals be satisfied with going to this Super Bowl or will they continue to strive for more success" as to spending freely and smartly (which he said), utilizing an example of being satisfied.
I do think/hope they will continue to build the team like they have, but as a fan since the late 70's I would not be shocked if they retreated in some way. I dont think Carson was out of line whatsoever and in fact he is applying a little pressure to the FO in asking these questions and NOT projecting what they will do. I truly hope Joe does put pressure on ownership to continue to want to win as much as he does, in fact there was an article regarding just this topic not long ago. Carson said he wished he would have handle it better when he asked for that commitment but was lied to, which seems about right since things have changed only recently with Katie.
I dont think he ignored our FA's but I think you believe you over value their stardom more than everyone else outside of us. I think our fanbase is unaware of the players agreement that demanded a new salary floor on ownership forcing cheap owners to spend on players. I think that had a lot to do with our FA which may have been a positive for Katie and her team to push MB, we also did a damn good job of getting the right players.
I dont see a vendetta whatsoever, he continuously states in this interview, and others, how much the FANS deserve the success. These are very fair questions and I see them as a positive for our fanbase and our team.
As to timing, he is in a promotions tour for his product, it is in every interview. And he does not bring up things out of the blue, he is being asked questions and answering honestly. I appreciate the honesty, I hope Katie sees this and shows Carson, as well as the team and all of us that their commitment will continue.
I think if you rewatch it in a different frame of mind you may see it in a different way. Maybe not..
- So are we talking about actual skill or just "stardom"? Who gives a flying rip about whether or not Trey Hendrickson or DJ Reader are as famous as Odell Beckham? They may not be as famous as Beckham, but they're better players at this stage.
Carson's point there was clearly that the Bengals haven't tried as hard as the Rams to attain great players. So it's folly for Carson to judge that based on "stars". More fame doesn't = more skill.
The talent level on these 2 teams is pretty close to equal. Will you agree with that? Probably not, I'm guessing. You can't even admit that calling someone "David" is a little
disrespectful. Like Burrow said, we have a great team with great players. They're not David, and the Rams aren't Goliath, either.
- If you read between the fairly obvious lines, it's clear what Carson thinks will happen. Be honest. The FO being terrible was the theme of the entire interview. They left on an open question, but the tone of the entire interview being so negative made it hard to imagine a positive answer to a question that - in itself - was so negative.
- How did he not ignore our free agents?? He didn't mention a single one of them. Didn't give props or even acknowledge that we signed any great players. He just compared us to the Rams and made it sound like they did it the right way, and we half-assed it. That's BS, and frankly, you not being able to admit that tells me all I need to know.
Maybe the cap floor is the reason for the splurges? Maybe not. We don't know. I just know they signed great players that helped lead this team to the Super Bowl. Especially on defense, which was integral on us getting here. So...give credit for that, or you expose yourself as lacking objectivity.
- The vendetta isn't with the fans. It's with ownership. He highlights all the negatives relentlessly, and doesn't acknowledge any progress or success they've had. He's not Boomer or Chad, etc. Those guys have ripped the organization, but also give credit when it's due. Carson is all negative towards the FO, and gives 0 credit for any progress. Even before the Super Bowl.
- On the timing, he knows what questions are coming. They get briefed before these interviews. Is it asking too much to want a little fairness if he's going to dredge up negativity? The FO has done some good things, and if you can't admit that, I guess I now see why you so staunchly side with Team Carson.
I don't think you'll rewatch that video with a different frame of mind, either.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(02-10-2022, 09:18 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoeALdTHUNg Carson the quitter is basically saying Joe should leave if they don't go out and continue to improve the team on the 8 minute mark.
Dude, the youtube video I posted was the same youtube video you posted. And now you come with a twitter video, c'mon stop it.
Plus he never said for Joe to leave you lie too much.
(02-11-2022, 02:26 PM)GodFather Wrote: I can confirm Houshmandzadeh's claim because one of those used jock straps is mine, I contributed to do my part as a Bengal fan!
This is 100% false. Housh didn't wear an extra small jock strap.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(02-11-2022, 03:24 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Dude, the youtube video I posted was the same youtube video you posted. And now you come with a twitter video, c'mon stop it.
Plus he never said for Joe to leave you are lie too much.
The last two offseasons have had a LOT of free agent spending, none of which qualifies as dumpster diving. Instead we signed players still in or approaching their prime who a) fit the scheme, b) high character and c) from winning programs. The defense was COMPLETELY retooled in the process and the expenditure was huge, FAR over the cap floor.
(02-11-2022, 03:47 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Clearly your listening skills are off.
Minutes, seconds where he says Joe should leave.
P.S. Joe has leverage does not mean Joe should leave. In addition, Joe can't control his destiny until after year 5 of his contract and even then the team has more options.
Plus your first video was youtube and not twitter.
(02-11-2022, 03:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: The last two offseasons have had a LOT of free agent spending, none of which qualifies as dumpster diving. Instead we signed players still in or approaching their prime who a) fit the scheme, b) high character and c) from winning programs. The defense was COMPLETELY retooled in the process and the expenditure was huge, FAR over the cap floor.
No one said anything about dumpster diving.
No one said we didint sign perfect players for us.
No one said our defense did not greatly improve.
We did not sign named superstars like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey, which apparently Carson deems as a FO going all out, he's not wrong - but the Rams have mortgaged their future, and I dont think Carson is that in tune with the great guys we did sign.
But kind of like you missing the DJ Reader at G thread you are missing the context of this thread as well. C'mon Joe.
(02-11-2022, 03:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sometimes you can say things without actually saying them. I'm sure someone will have a sarcastic reply to that, but some people can communicate a point without being blunt. The whole interview was like watching a dark cloud...and here we are arguing CP on what should be the best week of our fandom.
I dont think he worded his point as well I would have liked and I do see some bitterness.
- So are we talking about actual skill or just "stardom"? Who gives a flying rip about whether or not Trey Hendrickson or DJ Reader are as famous as Odell Beckham? They may not be as famous as Beckham, but they're better players at this stage.
Carson's point there was clearly that the Bengals haven't tried as hard as the Rams to attain great players. So it's folly for Carson to judge that based on "stars". More fame doesn't = more skill.
Many, outsiders like Carson dont recognize our FA haul because of the lack of star power, thats on them.
The talent level on these 2 teams is pretty close to equal. Will you agree with that? Probably not, I'm guessing. You can't even admit that calling someone "David" is a little
disrespectful. Like Burrow said, we have a great team with great players. They're not David, and the Rams aren't Goliath, either.
On paper the talent level is not close. Who would Rams fans/many pundits take from the Bengals to start for the Rams?
Offense: JoeyB (maybe), Chase, Mixon (maybe)
Defense: Bates, Hilton, Bell, Awuzie, Wilson (maybe)
- If you read between the fairly obvious lines, it's clear what Carson thinks will happen. Be honest. The FO being terrible was the theme of the entire interview. They left on an open question, but the tone of the entire interview being so negative made it hard to imagine a positive answer to a question that - in itself - was so negative.
The FO has been terrible for 30 years, all except the last 2, and when he was in the building they were not only bad but dishonest according to him. Again he showed signs of bitterness.
- How did he not ignore our free agents?? He didn't mention a single one of them. Didn't give props or even acknowledge that we signed any great players. He just compared us to the Rams and made it sound like they did it the right way, and we half-assed it. That's BS, and frankly, you not being able to admit that tells me all I need to know.
Most people dont recognize our FAs due to the lack of star names. We know better but most, including Carson obviously do not.
- Maybe the cap floor is the reason for the splurges? Maybe not. We don't know. I just know they signed great players that helped lead this team to the Super Bowl. Especially on defense, which was integral on us getting here. So...give credit for that, or you expose yourself as lacking objectivity.
I have said many times maybe it's just coincidence, and I give credit to Katie for pushing it and Duke for signing the right guys. Dont ignore that I have said this, but the timing....?
- The vendetta isn't with the fans. It's with ownership. He highlights all the negatives relentlessly, and doesn't acknowledge any progress or success they've had. He's not Boomer or Chad, etc. Those guys have ripped the organization, but also give credit when it's due. Carson is all negative towards the FO, and gives 0 credit for any progress. Even before the Super Bowl.
The FO has been awful for 98% of the time MB has been in charge when it comes to resources, this defense of MB is comical and would be ridiculed to pieces not long ago, but this one great season forgives all the bad for some reason, even though we are still at the very bottom when it comes to resources.
- On the timing, he knows what questions are coming. They get briefed before these interviews. Is it asking too much to want a little fairness if he's going to dredge up negativity? The FO has done some good things, and if you can't admit that, I guess I now see why you so staunchly side with Team Carson.
We dont know if he was prepped as to questions or not. Carson, even with bitterness in his voice, is advocating for Joe and the team and especially the fans. I dont see how anyone who has been on these boards & reddit for longer than a few years does not see that he is saying exactly what the majority of us have been saying for years.
I don't think you'll rewatch that video with a different frame of mind, either.
I dont watch it as a victim of some outsider attacking our team. I see at as someone who has dealt with MB and has far more insight and experiences with him than any of us has. I see CP s a huge fan of Joe due to his brother's work with him. I do not disagree with him that we have been loyal fans for decades and deserve a winner. I see him saying this a is a crucial offseason (most important ever to me) and that the FO needs to continue the commitment to winning. His talk of Joe having leverage to force this is not new, there was an article about it not too long ago. If the FO doesnt keep up we would want Joe to use that leverage to push them to do so wouldnt we? I think we are all hopeful that Katie and Duke will continue what they have the last 2 off-seasons, those fearing MB screw it up cant be blamed based on history. Thats me, I think we keep going but wouldnt be overly surprised if we are disappointed.
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