Flores files a class action suit against the NFL

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(02-05-2022, 04:52 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: I have to be honest with over 70% of the players being black I would prefer a black HC a guy who listens or listened to the same kind of music, grew up in the same kind of world, a guy who can relate to life as a black man. And I do think the black players feel more comfortable around a guy who gets it and has been where they came from.

Why we have only one black HC is surprising and really makes no sense, if I owned an NFL team, I'd be looking for a black HC simply makes sense.

I can see this. It’s about relatability which makes sense. The first I heard this was about 30 years ago when a black Raiders player said he appreciated playing under Art Shell who was one of the first long term black head coaches. Art was also an incredible offensive tackle so his credibility factor was off the charts.

Forget skin color for a moment because players from all backgrounds respected and loved playing for Tony Dungy, Dennis Green, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith, and yes, even Marvin Lewis. From what I’ve heard the Miami players played hard for Brian Flores and, even though I loathe all things Steelers, I have mad respect for Mike Tomlin. He has NEVER had a losing season.

[basballguy]

(02-05-2022, 04:52 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: I have to be honest with over 70% of the players being black I would prefer a black HC a guy who listens or listened to the same kind of music, grew up in the same kind of world, a guy who can relate to life as a black man.  And I do think the black players feel more comfortable around a guy who gets it and has been where they came from.

Why we have only one black HC is surprising and really makes no sense,  if I owned an NFL team,  I'd be looking for a black HC simply makes sense.

You would hire a HC based upon the type of music the listened to or where they grew up?  No you wouldn't.  You like to think that you would but if you were in that position you'd be thinking much differently.  

"Those that can't do, teach"

I don't see why it's unfathomable, in a sport dominated by african americans, other ethnicities focus more on coaching/leading than playing to break into the league.  

The NFL has a real problem with the Rooney Rule and it's clearly not working as it was intended.  All it's doing is making things worse.  But I don't think your POV on how they should hire is any better.  

[Elzio Dennick]

(02-05-2022, 05:06 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I can see this.  It’s about relatability which makes sense.  The first I heard this was about 30 years ago when a black Raiders player said he appreciated playing under Art Shell who was one of the first long term black head coaches.  Art was also an incredible offensive tackle so his credibility factor was off the charts.

Forget skin color for a moment because players from all backgrounds respected and loved playing for Tony Dungy, Dennis Green, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith, and yes, even Marvin Lewis.  From what I’ve heard the Miami players played hard for Brian Flores and, even though I loathe all things Steelers, I have mad respect for Mike Tomlin.  He has NEVER had a losing season.

I see you get it,  yes that word.....relatability makes total sense. Just knowing your coach has had to deal with the same things you are dealing with is a big deal and does make a difference.  You can talk to him about things a white coach would know nothing about it.  

[Elzio Dennick]

(02-05-2022, 08:26 PM)basballguy Wrote: You would hire a HC based upon the type of music the listened to or where they grew up?  No you wouldn't.  You like to think that you would but if you were in that position you'd be thinking much differently.  

"Those that can't do, teach"

I don't see why it's unfathomable, in a sport dominated by african americans, other ethnicities focus more on coaching/leading than playing to break into the league.  

The NFL has a real problem with the Rooney Rule and it's clearly not working as it was intended.  All it's doing is making things worse.  But I don't think your POV on how they should hire is any better.  

That's right,  I would want a HC who relates to his athletes, a guy who has the same interests the same life experiences.  A guy who knows who Marvin Gaye was a guy who can talk the same language as his players. You walk into his office and there are pictures of Bessie Smith, Muddy Waters on the walls. And he can talk Lil' Wayne.  Point......relate.

And I made it very clear that is what I would do,  said nothing about the NFL. 

When you work close together like a HC/QB it would help if they were the same race,  simply common sense. See Belichick/Brady, Lombardi/Starr, Noll/Bradshaw, Walsh/Montana, Jimmy/Troy.

[basballguy]

(02-05-2022, 08:55 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: That's right,  I would want a HC who relates to his athletes, a guy who has the same interests the same life experiences.  A guy who knows who Marvin Gaye was a guy who can talk the same language as his players. You walk into his office and there are pictures of Bessie Smith, Muddy Waters on the walls. And he can talk Lil' Wayne.  Point......relate.

And I made it very clear that is what I would do,  said nothing about the NFL. 

When you work close together like a HC/QB it would help if they were the same race,  simply common sense. See Belichick/Brady, Lombardi/Starr, Noll/Bradshaw, Walsh/Montana, Jimmy/Troy.

LO ***** L

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(02-05-2022, 08:45 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: I see you get it,  yes that word.....relatability makes total sense. Just knowing your coach has had to deal with the same things you are dealing with is a big deal and does make a difference.  You can talk to him about things a white coach would know nothing about it.  

Oh yes, I get it and this comes from my time in the military. With that said, there are white coaches and Latino coaches who had hard lives growing up. The hard life of a white or Latino youth may not be the same as the hard life of a black youth but it can be hard nonetheless. We need to look at each other as one beautiful human race because in every ethnic group can be found saints, sinners, losers, and winners.

The other day I was thinking about this race issue and I was sitting with my friend from work who is black and a Cleveland Browns fan. We both have military experience; he is an electrical engineer and I am a physicist. We were sitting there having a beer and I told him I have much more in common with him as an American than I do with some white guy from Sweden. We laughed but it was true.

There was a time in the NFL when there was more than one black head coach and trends come and go in cycles. There will be more black head coaches, then less, then more.

Circling back to the military, I have had black bosses who have mentored me better than anyone else. All I saw was their rank not their skin color. I hope those under me see the same thing no matter their background.

[XenoMorph]

He now claims he didnt get the texans job due to the Lawsuit..... lol... Yeah filing a lawsuit generally doesnt help you gain employement

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-05-2022, 08:55 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: When you work close together like a HC/QB it would help if they were the same race,  simply common sense. See Belichick/Brady,  Lombardi/Starr, Noll/Bradshaw, Walsh/Montana, Jimmy/Troy.

So... you want racial segregation? I'm pretty sure that's what you're advocating for here and it's really weird.

[Whatever]

(02-05-2022, 05:06 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I can see this.  It’s about relatability which makes sense.  The first I heard this was about 30 years ago when a black Raiders player said he appreciated playing under Art Shell who was one of the first long term black head coaches.  Art was also an incredible offensive tackle so his credibility factor was off the charts.

Forget skin color for a moment because players from all backgrounds respected and loved playing for Tony Dungy, Dennis Green, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith, and yes, even Marvin Lewis.  From what I’ve heard the Miami players played hard for Brian Flores and, even though I loathe all things Steelers, I have mad respect for Mike Tomlin.  He has NEVER had a losing season.

The issue is that the NFL is a performance based league as well as a copycat league.  Players have spoken openly about their dislike for playing for Belichick, but he's still the most successful NFL HC by miles.  No NFL owner is going to take a HC that is relatable to the players over one that wins.  If you can do both, great, but hiring a HC because he's relatable is putting the cart before the horse.

What's interesting is in '17 there were a record 8 minority HC's.  Unfortunately, most of them didn't perform and the "Find the next McVay" trend hit.  With there only being 4 African American OC's in the league and most teams looking for offensive coaches, there's not a of opportunities.  The bloom has also come off the rose a bit with Tomlin.  He hasn't won a playoff game since '16 and his handling of a number of high profile discipline cases has been suspect.

Personally, the phins playing hard for Flores is national media talking head spin to try and make him seem like a better coach than he actually is.  How hard are you really playing when you start the season 1-7?  It also doesn't really jive with all the issues Flores has had with assistant coaches.  Jim Caldwell was hired as QB coach/assistant HC and quit in July '19 before the Dolphins even played one game.  DC Patrick Graham resigned after one season, as did Flores' 2nd OC, Chan Gailey.  I have a hard time believing Flores has all these issues working with his assistants, but the players are ride or die with him.

[BillsGuy1986]

(02-09-2022, 03:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: The issue is that the NFL is a performance based league as well as a copycat league.  Players have spoken openly about their dislike for playing for Belichick, but he's still the most successful NFL HC by miles.  No NFL owner is going to take a HC that is relatable to the players over one that wins.  If you can do both, great, but hiring a HC because he's relatable is putting the cart before the horse.

What's interesting is in '17 there were a record 8 minority HC's.  Unfortunately, most of them didn't perform and the "Find the next McVay" trend hit.  With there only being 4 African American OC's in the league and most teams looking for offensive coaches, there's not a of opportunities.  The bloom has also come off the rose a bit with Tomlin.  He hasn't won a playoff game since '16 and his handling of a number of high profile discipline cases has been suspect.

Personally, the phins playing hard for Flores is national media talking head spin to try and make him seem like a better coach than he actually is.  How hard are you really playing when you start the season 1-7?  It also doesn't really jive with all the issues Flores has had with assistant coaches.  Jim Caldwell was hired as QB coach/assistant HC and quit in July '19 before the Dolphins even played one game.  DC Patrick Graham resigned after one season, as did Flores' 2nd OC, Chan Gailey.  I have a hard time believing Flores has all these issues working with his assistants, but the players are ride or die with him.

Let me put it this way. When your division foes are celebrating moves you've made, it is probably a mistake. I respected Flores, even though the Bills killed him every single time. 

[grampahol]

(02-03-2022, 04:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: They have to investigate such a claim.   anyone that has proof they got paid would be convicting themselves of a crime also.

Flores didn't get paid the 100000 per game.. He refused to do it. He says he has the proof so we shall see. if he's taking that to court it's quite a different matter than whatever the league might do to Ross.. Whatever punishment is handed down if any will have the force of law while the league can hem and haw forever about it..

[Whatever]

(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)BillsGuy1986 Wrote: Let me put it this way. When your division foes are celebrating moves you've made, it is probably a mistake. I respected Flores, even though the Bills killed him every single time. 

I think he's a decent coach that should get another HC opportunity at some point.  At the same time, I don't think he was fired due to his race.  He had a nearly identical record to Gase when he was fired.  He went through OC's like toilet paper and they have a young QB in Tua that they need stability to develop.  The decision was likely made when they face planted to a 1-7 start when they were supposed to be playoff contenders.  The only way the 2ns half surge was going to save his job is if they made the playoffs, but they fell short.

[XenoMorph]

(02-10-2022, 05:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: Flores didn't get paid the 100000 per game.. He refused to do it. He says he has the proof so we shall see. if he's taking that to court it's quite a different matter than whatever the league might do to Ross.. Whatever punishment is handed down if any will have the force of law while the league can hem and haw forever about it..

from what i read it has to go thru arbitration due to the language in his contract... But we will see.

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2022, 08:55 PM)Elzio Dennick Wrote: When you work close together like a HC/QB it would help if they were the same race,  simply common sense. See Belichick/Brady,  Lombardi/Starr, Noll/Bradshaw, Walsh/Montana, Jimmy/Troy.

That would explain why the Throwin' Samoan didn't catch on here.