Zac play calling

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-24-2022, 03:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was just watching on the NFL network the Cincy/KC game in OT. They were raving how the Bengals were down 21-3 at Arrowhead and beat KC. Just an incredible feat. Yet the criticism Taylor gets is so petty. Oh his play calling cost us in the SB. Perine out there instead of Mixon. His play calling hasn’t helped Burrow. If any coach had Burrow and Chase they’d win too. The respect he gets with so little experience as a head coach for doing so well in the playoffs and on the road plus turning around a team with a 4-11-1 record his amazing accomplishment is sooooo underrated

I don't know that I agree with that.  I think and freely admit he's done a great job as HC.  I think most others have as well.  Those that loved him last year and those that wanted him fired after last year seem to be in pretty solid agreement that what he's done with the team is impressive.  

That said, I've always hated the narrative that saying someone has a weakness means you're knocking everything they've done.  I've got some people on my team that are all stars in some areas, but they still have weaknesses.  I do, too.  When I do my semi-annual reviews with them and give them points to focus on for improvement, that doesn't take one bit away from the things they excelled at.  It means they're people and have room to grow.  I think it's beyond acceptable to say Zac's killing it as a HC of the team but has room for improvement when it comes to his OC duties.  

[Soonerpeace]

(02-24-2022, 05:44 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I don't know that I agree with that.  I think and freely admit he's done a great job as HC.  I think most others have as well.  Those that loved him last year and those that wanted him fired after last year seem to be in pretty solid agreement that what he's done with the team is impressive.  

That said, I've always hated the narrative that saying someone has a weakness means you're knocking everything they've done.  I've got some people on my team that are all stars in some areas, but they still have weaknesses.  I do, too.  When I do my semi-annual reviews with them and give them points to focus on for improvement, that doesn't take one bit away from the things they excelled at.  It means they're people and have room to grow.  I think it's beyond acceptable to say Zac's killing it as a HC of the team but has room for improvement when it comes to his OC duties.  

I stand behind what I said. I mentioned Zac’s lack of experience as a head coach or as a mastermind turning a team in horrible shape around. The roster was awful. With no experience as a head coach to manufacture this incredible turnaround he’s had zero blueprint. We aren’t talking about a coach with experience. We are talking about one with none. No he’s not arrived as an OC but I’d say he’s sure arrived in a lot more important things. His first playoff run 3-1. Oh he’s not HOF yet but for a coach with no head coach or extremely limited OC experience he’s done amazing.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-24-2022, 05:44 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I don't know that I agree with that.  I think and freely admit he's done a great job as HC.  I think most others have as well.  Those that loved him last year and those that wanted him fired after last year seem to be in pretty solid agreement that what he's done with the team is impressive.  

That said, I've always hated the narrative that saying someone has a weakness means you're knocking everything they've done.  I've got some people on my team that are all stars in some areas, but they still have weaknesses.  I do, too.  When I do my semi-annual reviews with them and give them points to focus on for improvement, that doesn't take one bit away from the things they excelled at.  It means they're people and have room to grow.  I think it's beyond acceptable to say Zac's killing it as a HC of the team but has room for improvement when it comes to his OC duties.  

And the biggest mistake sales managers make is concentrating on what their salesmen aren’t good at. Too many sales managers barely touch on the great things done well and go straight to the areas of concern. They can’t balance it. I was a owner/mgr for 33 years. My regional had a one on one with a girl who knocked it out of the park and made Predidents Club her first year. All excited he ripped her for he pour areas. Expecting very positive feedback she got the opposite. As far as Taylor I betcha he learns a ton from this year. With an improved line he’ll be better

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-24-2022, 06:29 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And the biggest mistake sales managers make is concentrating on what their salesmen aren’t good at. Too many sales managers barely touch on the great things done well and go straight to the areas of concern. They can’t balance it. I was a owner/mgr for 33 years. My regional had a one on one with a girl who knocked it out of the park and made Predidents Club her first year. All excited he ripped her for he pour areas. Expecting very positive feedback she got the opposite. As far as Taylor I betcha he learns a ton from this year. With an improved line he’ll be better

I'm not a sales manager and I don't rip anyone.. but sure, there are people who do that.  They're bad managers.  

Zac might learn and grow.  He's not new to calling plays.  He is new at being a HC.  Overall, he's done a great job.  I'm not calling for him to be replaced (I was a year ago), I'm just always wondering if his skillset is being an OC or whether he'd benefit more by having someone else in that role.  I know that's taken as an attack on Zac, and people interpret however they want, but that's not my intention.  Just think there's a gap and always has been.  Do I think he needs to be shown the door after this season, though?  No, of course not.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-23-2022, 11:56 AM)Wyche Wrote: That's been my point in all of this. If Zac is awful, then McVay must not be all that, considering the final score.

McVay is a choke artist. The only reason he won the SB is because he faced a bigger choke artist across the field.


Most of the play calling head coaches are choke artists. Ask Eagles and Chiefs fans about the great Andy Reid. His only SB win was due to a collapse by SF(another choke job).

The game gets too big for someone that has to run an entire sideline and plan out the offense's every step, especially inexperienced coaches. Sometimes you get so caught up in the moment, you forget simple shit like, ohhhh, I don't know . . . screen plays? 

It must be nice to get paid handsomely while still going through On The Job Training.

As a HC? Great job bringing in talent and changing the culture. As a play caller, he's weak.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-24-2022, 06:38 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I'm not a sales manager and I don't rip anyone.. but sure, there are people who do that.  They're bad managers.  

Zac might learn and grow.  He's not new to calling plays.  He is new at being a HC.  Overall, he's done a great job.  I'm not calling for him to be replaced (I was a year ago), I'm just always wondering if his skillset is being an OC or whether he'd benefit more by having someone else in that role.  I know that's taken as an attack on Zac, and people interpret however they want, but that's not my intention.  Just think there's a gap and always has been.  Do I think he needs to be shown the door after this season, though?  No, of course not.

He’s got hardly any play calling experience

[casear2727]

(02-24-2022, 04:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think Perine in instead of Mixon was a mistake. Hill the running back coach suggested putting in Joe but scared of forcing a timeout Zac refrained. But Perine is their 2 minute back. It’s no mystery Mixon struggles ( not blocking ) but picking up blitzes and twists. Perine is bigger. They also try to manage Mixon’s load. I was told LA took away the screens. Makes sense as I’d expect Cincy to throw a lot that game and work on that as a strategy thinking that was exactly what they’d do. I’ve not watched the replay to validate that.

What happened is that the game was close and their players made plays and ours didn’t. We made a lot in our playoff run. I think we made a lot of mistakes on offense in the Super Bowl. Joe made a lot. The receivers ran wrong routes. Joe didn’t do well in protection calls. If Spain even gets any hit on Donald then Burrow hits Higgins and steps up on the last play. But LA (and look for others to do so) tried to collapse the pocket a lot. Bottom line is they spent so much effort blocking the edges the interior could push the pocket back. I think Pollard got really out coached in the Super Bowl. He did a good job this year and our OL isn’t good but the SB was not his best. Nor was it Taylor’s. But I’m sure not complaining

I believe everything you said.

My Monday QBing:  It's the Super Bowl, play your best, which is Mixon in short distance.

Rams are the worst at screens, there are a variety of screens, WR screens, play action screens, middle screens, outside screens - Rams cannot take away every single screen option on every play.  The Niners beat them 2 out 3 times and screened the hell out of them every game, hit an 80 yarder in the loss, should we think the Rams werent trying to take them away vs the Niners.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-24-2022, 07:33 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: McVay is a choke artist. The only reason he won the SB is because he faced a bigger choke artist across the field.


Most of the play calling head coaches are choke artists. Ask Eagles and Chiefs fans about the great Andy Reid. His only SB win was due to a collapse by SF(another choke job).

The game gets too big for someone that has to run an entire sideline and plan out the offense's every step, especially inexperienced coaches. Sometimes you get so caught up in the moment, you forget simple shit like, ohhhh, I don't know . . . screen plays? 

It must be nice to get paid handsomely while still going through On The Job Training.

As a HC? Great job bringing in talent and changing the culture. As a play caller, he's weak.

That's one take....

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-24-2022, 08:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He’s got hardly any play calling experience

At what point does someone go from new to experienced?  He spent part of a season as OC at Miami, a season as OC at UC and now 3 seasons as OC for the Bengals.  Seems he should be beyond the "on the job training" with 4 1/2 years under his belt as specifically an OC.  The argument I hear a lot is that "he hasn't had his guys to run his offense."  That's probably the worst argument of all, because it means someone can't adapt.  He was a QB himself and has been an offensive coach for a decade.  At some point you either are great at something or you're not.  It's quite possible he'll continue to improve and become a prominent offensive mastermind in the league.  It's also possible he's a middling OC but a great HC.  I just think HCs should focus on that role and hire out a staff to do the rest. 

I dunno.  It doesn't matter.  Those who choose to see only good will see that.  Those who choose to just see the bad will see that.  But there is actually a middle ground.  I just don't think it's a bad thing to say some people aren't great at everything.  

[Soonerpeace]

(02-24-2022, 07:33 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: McVay is a choke artist. The only reason he won the SB is because he faced a bigger choke artist across the field.


Most of the play calling head coaches are choke artists. Ask Eagles and Chiefs fans about the great Andy Reid. His only SB win was due to a collapse by SF(another choke job).

The game gets too big for someone that has to run an entire sideline and plan out the offense's every step, especially inexperienced coaches. Sometimes you get so caught up in the moment, you forget simple shit like, ohhhh, I don't know . . . screen plays? 

It must be nice to get paid handsomely while still going through On The Job Training.

As a HC? Great job bringing in talent and changing the culture. As a play caller, he's weak.

Weak? He called the plays that produced late game heroics in late season and playoff games. But it’s always funny to go to blogs and message boards and read comments from pundits without a lick of experience. I’m glad Mike Brown recognized the need to take a deep dive into Taylor’s expertise as a play caller before giving him a huge salary increase and length ( it’s big but not released publicly). Mike likes what he sees, but most importantly he talks to numerous players who gave Zac a ringing endorsement.

[higgy100]

(02-24-2022, 07:33 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: McVay is a choke artist. The only reason he won the SB is because he faced a bigger choke artist across the field.


Most of the play calling head coaches are choke artists. Ask Eagles and Chiefs fans about the great Andy Reid. His only SB win was due to a collapse by SF(another choke job).

The game gets too big for someone that has to run an entire sideline and plan out the offense's every step, especially inexperienced coaches. Sometimes you get so caught up in the moment, you forget simple shit like, ohhhh, I don't know . . . screen plays? 

It must be nice to get paid handsomely while still going through On The Job Training.

As a HC? Great job bringing in talent and changing the culture. As a play caller, he's weak.

You are the picture definition of a bad piece of work.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I mean, you wanna make him get behind that line and do 3 step drops more often? If he did that more in the play offs Burrow wouldn’t have had a second to make his first read.

But he was a good enough playcaller and Burrow was talented enough to be one second away from taking a 4 point lead and maybe winning the SB. We knew that was the Achilles heel and it finally caught up to them, but I’m not going to throw Zac under the bus for how he tried to mask deficiencies in such a way that it almost worked.

Criticize how he approached FA the past 2 years, criticize how the team tried and failed to rebuild after letting Whit and Zeitler go. But how Zac tried and almost succeeded in masking the lines deficiencies? No I disagree.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-25-2022, 11:58 AM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: At what point does someone go from new to experienced?  He spent part of a season as OC at Miami, a season as OC at UC and now 3 seasons as OC for the Bengals.  Seems he should be beyond the "on the job training" with 4 1/2 years under his belt as specifically an OC.  The argument I hear a lot is that "he hasn't had his guys to run his offense."  That's probably the worst argument of all, because it means someone can't adapt.  He was a QB himself and has been an offensive coach for a decade.  At some point you either are great at something or you're not.  It's quite possible he'll continue to improve and become a prominent offensive mastermind in the league.  It's also possible he's a middling OC but a great HC.  I just think HCs should focus on that role and hire out a staff to do the rest. 

I dunno.  It doesn't matter.  Those who choose to see only good will see that.  Those who choose to just see the bad will see that.  But there is actually a middle ground.  I just don't think it's a bad thing to say some people aren't great at everything.  

People/coaches aren’t great at everything you are right. The Bengals just made it to the Super Bowl for the first time in 33 years. They’ve hired a young coach with zero experience as a head coach at any level. But they bought into his vision. Many are still non-believers. His vision, his strategy of culture change, his strategy for improving the roster, and confidence he instilled into the players of how good they could be is inescapable. Yet many continue to criticize his play calling ( I think KC and Tenn regrettably saw it first hand in late game play calls) and attribute everything to Lou or Joe. Well we are learning Tom Brady had a lot to do with Bill Belichick. Andy Reid lost with Alex Smith and was fired at Philly. How’d he do when he got Mahomes? Did the Rams do when Taylor left? Then they got Matt Stafford. How did Sean Payton do w/o Drew Brees?

If anything with a poor OL I think Zac has accelerated Burrow’s success. He envisioned it.
57 weeks ago
Joe Burrow “I was excited about it. I think Zac’s going to be a really, really good coach…Obviously we didn’t win as many games as we expected this year. We had a lot of key injuries that kind of prevented us from doing that, but with one more offseason I think next year’s going to be a lot of fun and we’ll take a big step.”

Boomer Esaison "They hired Sam Wyche and drafted me, so they had an ex-quarterback coaching a quarterback. Watching Joe Burrow and Zac Taylor work together last year, before Burrow got hurt, I think Mike Brown realized he hit the lottery. The right coach and the right quarterback. In this day and age of offensive football, he found something special."

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-25-2022, 01:26 PM)higgy100 Wrote: You are the picture definition of a bad piece of work.

Sorry if my contribution didn't meet your standards for a thread started by someone else. I'd love to criticize you and your contributions to this topic but there aren't any.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2022, 05:45 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: A better OL will improve playcalling.  Also, ZT seems to be smart and constantly learning from his own mistakes.

Thank you. I believe the same BTG.