The End of Bates?

[Bengalbug]

(03-31-2022, 08:47 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: He’s torn about ACL and that’s pretty much it. Without having thrown a pass for Cleveland yet, he is the best QB they’ve ever had and the rest of their team is solid as well. They should be much improved.

Basically, I’m hoping you’re not much of a betting man.

That is a bold statement - “ he is the best QB they’ve ever had”.

Otto Graham

He is widely considered the best quarterback of his era, winning four AAFC championships and three NFL championships, all with the Cleveland Browns. He was a three-time NFL MVP, and he won two MVP awards as a member of the AAFC. Graham was a seven-time All-Pro selection and a five-time Pro Bowler. He was the most prolific passer of his era, which is all the more impressive when you consider that he played in an option-based offense and never played the quarterback position until he reached the professional level. Graham held the highest career QB passer rating (86.6) until Joe Montana retired in 1994. He still holds the NFL record for passing yards per attempt (9.0). Thanks to his background as a collegiate running back, Graham rushed for 44 touchdowns during his 10-year professional career. He was inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1965.

Record
114-20-4*
Playoff
9-3*
Stat Total
Comp
1,464
Att.
2,626
%
55.8
Yard
23,584
TD
174
INT
135
Rat.
86.6
GWD
N/A
Rush
882
TD
44

[Bengalbug]

(03-30-2022, 10:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Latest words from KB don't seem like we're going to make signing JB3 to a long term a top priority:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/30/bengals-will-circle-back-with-jessie-bates-at-some-point-on-contract-talks/
I think we gave JB3 our best offer last year and he turned it down, The Bengals aren't going any higher than they've already offered.

See if Mathieu will take the 3 year offer and rescind bates.

[KillerGoose]

(03-31-2022, 10:15 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: That is a bold statement - “ he is the best QB they’ve ever had”.  

Otto Graham

He is widely considered the best quarterback of his era, winning four AAFC championships and three NFL championships, all with the Cleveland Browns. He was a three-time NFL MVP, and he won two MVP awards as a member of the AAFC. Graham was a seven-time All-Pro selection and a five-time Pro Bowler. He was the most prolific passer of his era, which is all the more impressive when you consider that he played in an option-based offense and never played the quarterback position until he reached the professional level. Graham held the highest career QB passer rating (86.6) until Joe Montana retired in 1994. He still holds the NFL record for passing yards per attempt (9.0). Thanks to his background as a collegiate running back, Graham rushed for 44 touchdowns during his 10-year professional career. He was inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1965.

Record
114-20-4*
Playoff
9-3*
Stat Total
Comp
1,464
Att.
2,626
%
55.8
Yard
23,584
TD
174
INT
135
Rat.
86.6
GWD
N/A
Rush
882
TD
44

I immediately knew I should have clarified but was too lazy to do it. I'm talking new-era Browns. There's really no point in debating current players vs. players from 70+ years ago. Graham dominated in a league with eight teams for a chunk of his career, most of which don't exist anymore. At least when he went to the NFL, they had 12 teams. Lol. Yes, Graham is the most accomplished QB in their history and Watson certainly won't beat that. He's probably the best QB they have had since Graham, though. 

[Tony]

(03-31-2022, 08:47 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: He’s torn about ACL and that’s pretty much it. Without having thrown a pass for Cleveland yet, he is the best QB they’ve ever had and the rest of their team is solid as well. They should be much improved.

Basically, I’m hoping you’re not much of a betting man.

Actually I am, and I'm up 10 grand in March...

You , will see... He's gonna flop in Cleveland. He won't be there more than 3 years... Watch

[Bengalbug]

(04-01-2022, 02:15 AM)Tony Wrote: Actually I am, and I'm up 10 grand in March...

You , will see... He's gonna flop in Cleveland. He won't be there more than 3 years... Watch

I tend to agree…especially on a contract like that, seems like karma IMO.

I could be wrong, but I just don’t see this ending up with a SB.

[*jason*]

(04-01-2022, 08:00 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I tend to agree…especially on a contract like that, seems like karma IMO.

I could be wrong, but I just don’t see this ending up with a SB.

Considering that Deshaun Watson has literally never sucked karma is the only hope for those claiming he will flop in Cleveland. Good offensive line, great running game, good WRs, very good defense, very good offensive coach... Yeah. He's gonna struggle there.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-01-2022, 08:51 AM)jason Wrote: Considering that Deshaun Watson has literally never sucked karma is the only hope for those claiming he will flop in Cleveland. Good offensive line, great running game, good WRs, very good defense, very good offensive coach... Yeah. He's gonna struggle there.

Yeah, I have avoided the Deshaun Watson part of Smack Talk in large part because I can't honestly shit on him as a football player. Lol

There's always the hope that Cleveland will screw it up somehow, but I highly doubt any flopping will be due to Watson playing football poorly.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-01-2022, 08:51 AM)jason Wrote: Considering that Deshaun Watson has literally never sucked karma is the only hope for those claiming he will flop in Cleveland. Good offensive line, great running game, good WRs, very good defense, very good offensive coach... Yeah. He's gonna struggle there.

Meh. That’s actually a pretty weak group as it currently stands, imo. Definitely not as good as what Baker had.

[M.W.]

(04-01-2022, 08:51 AM)jason Wrote: Considering that Deshaun Watson has literally never sucked karma is the only hope for those claiming he will flop in Cleveland. Good offensive line, great running game, good WRs, very good defense, very good offensive coach... Yeah. He's gonna struggle there.

I agree that Watson will play well, at some point, however the  lasting effect on the franchise will be detrimental. the salary cap and lack of high level draft picks will hurt them.

[*jason*]

(04-01-2022, 09:44 AM)M.W. Wrote: I agree that Watson will play well, at some point, however the  lasting effect on the franchise will be detrimental. the salary cap and lack of high level draft picks will hurt them.

They're gonna be a big problem until it is time to pay the Piper though.

[*jason*]

(04-01-2022, 09:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Meh. That’s actually a pretty weak group as it currently stands, imo. Definitely not as good as what Baker had.

Who did he have his last year in Houston? I honestly don't remember... Cooks? Either way he's never had a good line in front of him let alone backs like Chubb and Hunt.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-01-2022, 09:52 AM)jason Wrote: Who did he have his last year in Houston? I honestly don't remember... Cooks? Either way he's never had a good line in front of him let alone backs like Chubb and Hunt.

I don’t disagree with your general point (that Watson is really good and set up pretty well in Cleveland), I just wouldn’t really call that a particularly strong WR group up there right now. Granted, I’m sure they’ll address it in the draft. But as it currently stands you’d have to say they got worse at receiver.

OBJ > Cooper
Landry > Peoples-Jones
Higgins > Schwartz

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-31-2022, 09:50 AM)grampahol Wrote: I doubt he made it to MySpace...more like still "For a good time call Mike" on some public bathroom wall somewhere..

Ahhhhhh. The original social media platform. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-01-2022, 02:15 AM)Tony Wrote: Actually I am, and I'm up 10 grand in March...

You , will see... He's gonna flop in Cleveland. He won't be there more than 3 years... Watch

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-01-2022, 10:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t disagree with your general point (that Watson is really good and set up pretty well in Cleveland), I just wouldn’t really call that a particularly strong WR group up there right now. Granted, I’m sure they’ll address it in the draft. But as it currently stands you’d have to say they got worse at receiver.

OBJ > Cooper
Landry > Peoples-Jones
Higgins > Schwartz

Ehhhh...

OBJ has the talent to be better than Cooper, but he hasn't been for years. Even with the Rams, he played 12 games (regular season and playoffs) and had 593 yards/7 TDs. Guy is crazy talented, but he hasn't really produced like it since 2016 and has been living off hype since and seems to be always hurt or banged up. Tore an ACL in each of the last 2 seasons.

But agreed that it isn't a great WR group right now. Supposedly Landry's agent said there's mutual interest in coming back. Amazing how that happens when he will have Watson throwing him the ball rather than Mayfield. Lol.. Cooper/Landry/Peoples-Jones would be a pretty solid group. Sure as hell no Chase/Higgins/Boyd, but not bad.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-31-2022, 09:50 AM)grampahol Wrote: I doubt he made it to MySpace...more like still "For a good time call Mike" on some public bathroom wall somewhere..

[KillerGoose]

(04-01-2022, 02:15 AM)Tony Wrote: Actually I am, and I'm up 10 grand in March...

You , will see... He's gonna flop in Cleveland. He won't be there more than 3 years... Watch

Hey, you gave yourself some cushion for losing. Smart man. 

[Graphicguy]

(04-01-2022, 09:44 AM)M.W. Wrote: I agree that Watson will play well, at some point, however the  lasting effect on the franchise will be detrimental. the salary cap and lack of high level draft picks will hurt them.

Yeah...agree 100%.  First, he won't be in uniform for the first part of the season because of the NFL's suspension.  Once he does get on the field, he'll have success.  But, he'll also have some bad games (as every player does).  Then, the talking heads will trash him in Cleveland, criticizing the team for such a bad decision. Then, the lack of top tier draft picks will hamper the team.  Then, the cap issues will start and not allow the team to maneuver, even in free agency.  Before you know it, 5 seasons have gone by and they aren't in any better shape than they have been.

[bengals1969]

(04-01-2022, 11:57 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: Yeah...agree 100%.  First, he won't be in uniform for the first part of the season because of the NFL's suspension.  Once he does get on the field, he'll have success.  But, he'll also have some bad games (as every player does).  Then, the talking heads will trash him in Cleveland, criticizing the team for such a bad decision. Then, the lack of top tier draft picks will hamper the team.  Then, the cap issues will start and not allow the team to maneuver, even in free agency.  Before you know it, 5 seasons have gone by and they aren't in any better shape than they have been.

The Browns might be betting on a big inflation of the CAP as why they could let Watson take all he wanted from the CAP cash.
Sunday Ticket is up for bid right now and some galaxy sized pockets are allegedly bidding, Amazon and Apple.
With $248 million tied up in guarantees to two QB’s, the Browns will be a media darling for bungling franchise if they don’t excel over the next 2-3 years.

[BacknDaDey]

Wow...this thread has truly been hijacked.