Cornerback

[Bengalpool]

(03-16-2022, 11:34 PM)Housh Wrote: My guess is Pat Pete.

He will not be alot of money and hes still good but has declined to the point where even he cant be expecting over 10 mill


We have to keep in mind too we need a STARTER. Trae W. just cant be trusted anymore. I think we are cutting him as soon as we sign a replacement.

I'm thinking you're correct. Unless we're in the Bradberry sweepstakes. 

[basballguy]

(03-16-2022, 11:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: Deciding that one game defined the guys whole season is kind of weird. He was objectively good down the stretch and is a low end #2 quality corner. Cooper Kupp against any teams #2 is going to demolish them. I mean heck, look what Ward just got paid and Chase put up 200 yards on him.

The super bowl was just one game.  I could also add the Chiefs and Raiders games....and that's just the playoffs.  Do we want to talk about the regular season too?  He had a stretch of 5 games where he played adequate towards the end of the season.  Beyond that, he was terrible.  Sure we didn't have any better options but you're kidding yourself if you think he was a good player this year.  

"Oh man Apple made that game saving tackle at the end of the half!"......forgetting Apple already gave up a stupid PI, a TD, and long bomb reception before that...

People, for whatever reason, have a short memory when it comes to Apple and i just don't get it.  He's made a career of being a failure.  

(03-16-2022, 11:55 PM)Housh Wrote: In all good conscience I cannot say a guy is trash because he cant guard Cooper Kupp 1 v 1 in the endzone.


Apple was SUPPOSED to be our 4th guy but he played kinda good all playoffs for a guy that had to guard Tyreke Hill, Julio Jones and Cooper Kupp/OBJ. 

If he can be had for 3 mill 1 yr then im fine. 

Cooper Kupp wouldve did that shit to everyone in the league but Jalen Ramsey. PERIOD. 

I posted this right after the bowl. That last TD they scored was the coaches fault. You just dont ask Apple to do that with your whole season on the line. Honestly that last call makes me question LOU HEAVILY and i honestly feel hes a dumbass for that call. That wasnt just a run of the mill bad choice. To me its as bad as Pete Carroll not running against New England. It was a coach knowing that if his call failed the media would blame Apple. I do not like Lou for that call but Apple shouldnt be the one on the grill for it.

If we sign him to his intended role (backup role backup salary), meaning he's only playing on certain packages, no objections from me.  

Separately.....

If we 'expect' someone to fail against big names then what's the point?  I'd like to see someone in there where there's a chance they could cover a big name....maybe not every game and every big name, but occasionally play lights out and and hold a big name to a stat that's like 5 catches for 30 yards and 0 TDs.  With Apple, you KNOW he won't do that.  You can only hope he's not the reason we lose the game....and I'm not going to hang the SB L on him but he sure as hell didn't make life easier for the rest of the team.  

[KillerGoose]

(03-17-2022, 10:43 AM)basballguy Wrote: The super bowl was just one game.  I could also add the Chiefs and Raiders games....and that's just the playoffs.  Do we want to talk about the regular season too?  He had a stretch of 5 games where he played adequate towards the end of the season.  Beyond that, he was terrible.  Sure we didn't have any better options but you're kidding yourself if you think he was a good player this year.  

"Oh man Apple made that game saving tackle at the end of the half!"......forgetting Apple already gave up a stupid PI, a TD, and long bomb reception before that...

People, for whatever reason, have a short memory when it comes to Apple and i just don't get it.  He's made a career of being a failure.  

I have to disagree as well. Eli Apple wasn't bad this past season. Does that mean he is irreplaceable? No, not in the slightest. He wasn't great by any stretch but he played well and I would be happy to keep him, assuming he maintains his play. He'd be a fantastic depth corner. He played 93% of snaps and had the second lowest passer rating allowed, only behind Chidobe (75 for Chidobe and 86 for Apple).

Saying he was "terrible" is objectively false, not sure what else to say. 

[basballguy]

(03-17-2022, 10:57 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I have to disagree as well. Eli Apple wasn't bad this past season. Does that mean he is irreplaceable? No, not in the slightest. He wasn't great by any stretch but he played well and I would be happy to keep him, assuming he maintains his play. He'd be a fantastic depth corner. He played 93% of snaps and had the second lowest passer rating allowed, only behind Chidobe (75 for Chidobe and 86 for Apple).

Saying he was "terrible" is objectively false, not sure what else to say. 

The trend of people around here adding the word "objectively" before adjectives is a little bizarre.  

Aside from that, you are the perfect example of someone who has short memory.  Apple can't tackle, can't cover, and gives up stupid penalties.  

You are objectively naïve.  

[Soonerpeace]

AFC teams are ramping up. I hope we aren’t through. The AFC is shaping up as a blood bath and we were injury free mostly and won 3 playoff games that could have gone either way. Our roster just isn’t where it needs to be. I understand no team doesn’t have holes. I’m still concerned about the OL, CB, and DT depth. I’m not as comfortable as I was Monday based on what the other AFC teams have done. I think there’s a good chance something is in the works but it still makes me nervous.

[KillerGoose]

(03-17-2022, 11:05 AM)basballguy Wrote: The trend of people around here adding the word "objectively" before adjectives is a little bizarre.  

Aside from that, you are the perfect example of someone who has short memory.  Apple can't tackle, can't cover, and gives up stupid penalties.  

You are objectively naïve.  

Lol, you've never seen someone say "objectively" + adj.? It's not a recent thing with me, had no idea it was a trend.

I don't know what to tell you man. He does miss tackles and had one of the highest missed tackle % on the team, but saying he can't cover is just wrong. He was 54th out of 135 corners in passer rating allowed that had 25 or more targets on the season. Bump it up to 50 targets or more, he was 39th out of 85. He led the team in penalties, but that wasn't hard to do. Cincinnati didn't commit very many of them, and neither did he. He had five penalties for 72 yards. 

We aren't going to come to an agreement here, that's pretty obvious. I think he did fine and would be an excellent depth corner - you think he is god awful. One of us is closer to the truth, so I guess I'll just remain naïve and be correct instead of enlightened and wrong. 

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2022, 10:43 AM)basballguy Wrote:  I could also add the Chiefs and Raiders games.

Eli Apple made the biggest tackle of the Chiefs game.

What is wrong with your memory?

Since Jalen Ramsey gave up more receiving yards in the Super Bowl than Apple maybe the Rams will cut him and we can sign him for cheap.

[basballguy]

(03-17-2022, 11:34 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Lol, you've never seen someone say "objectively" + adj.? It's not a recent thing with me, had no idea it was a trend.

I don't know what to tell you man. He does miss tackles and had one of the highest missed tackle % on the team, but saying he can't cover is just wrong. He was 54th out of 135 corners in passer rating allowed that had 25 or more targets on the season. Bump it up to 50 targets or more, he was 39th out of 85. He led the team in penalties, but that wasn't hard to do. Cincinnati didn't commit very many of them, and neither did he. He had five penalties for 72 yards. 

We aren't going to come to an agreement here, that's pretty obvious. I think he did fine and would be an excellent depth corner - you think he is god awful. One of us is closer to the truth, so I guess I'll just remain naïve and be correct instead of enlightened and wrong. 

The general consensus around here is Apple was awful for the first 10 or so games and played well the last 5 or 6 games.  (Note:  This is not my opinion, I think he was bad all year).

So if that's the case, what do you think his allowed passer rating was before that stretch of good games?  

The problem with looking at stats in the aggregate (season totals) is that if you didn't watch every game (or in this case remember) then you easily forget how much of a liability someone like Apple is.  Hanging your hat on a mediocre allowed passer rating should be all the evidence you need on whether or not he's a good player.  

Regarding penalties, how many penalties do you have to commit as a CB for it to be considered "many?"  

Apple led the team in penalties (well tied) and as you know, almost every penalty a CB makes results in a first down and that was definitely the case with Apple.  Four PI's is definitely a lot and puts him closer to the top of the league leaders than the bottom.  

[basballguy]

(03-17-2022, 10:43 AM)basballguy Wrote: "Oh man Apple made that game saving tackle at the end of the half!"......forgetting Apple already gave up a stupid PI, a TD, and long bomb reception before that...

People, for whatever reason, have a short memory when it comes to Apple and i just don't get it.  He's made a career of being a failure.  

(03-17-2022, 11:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Eli Apple made the biggest tackle of the Chiefs game.

What is wrong with your memory?

Someone give fred a trophy for proving my point.  

[KillerGoose]

(03-17-2022, 12:11 PM)basballguy Wrote: The general consensus around here is Apple was awful for the first 10 or so games and played well the last 5 or 6 games.  (Note:  This is not my opinion, I think he was bad all year).

So if that's the case, what do you think his allowed passer rating was before that stretch of good games?  

His passer rating allowed for the first 10 weeks was....91.6. He had three games where he allowed over 100 passer rating and one of those games he allowed one catch for 22 yards. That was the only target of the game that went his way, and it was for a rating of 118.7. That rating through the first 10 weeks would have put him at 43rd out of 85 corners with over 50 targets and 64th out of 135 for corners with over 25 targets. That is pretty far from awful, man. I watched every game this season and I just never saw him as a liability in pass coverage. His missed tackles were frustrating, absolutely. I just don't agree that he was awful by any definition of the word. He played fine and would be a fantastic depth corner if the price was right. He can provide adequate starting level play, assuming that he maintains that level of course. 

His penalties are likely more burdensome than I am giving them credit for, but that doesn't really change my position. Again, you are saying that he was bad/awful all year and I simply don't agree. I didn't see that during the season, and I am not seeing it upon review, either. 

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2022, 12:13 PM)basballguy Wrote: Someone give fred a trophy for proving my point.  

Eli Apple only allowed 54 receiving yards on 8 targets in that game.  6.8 yds per target is pretty good.  He also had 7 tackles.

And how is making the biggest play of the entire game not a good thing?

As for penalties the better CBs usually have a lot of penalties.  I don't know why.  Maybe it is because they are extra aggressive?  Maybe it is because they are more often close enough in covergae to make a play and get a penalty.  But for example just look at this year.  Apple had 5 penalties.  Half of the 8 CBs selected to the Pro Bowl had at least 5 penalties.  Trevon Diggs had 9 while Jalen Ramsey, J.C. Jackson, and Marshon Lattimore all had 5.

Apple is not a #1 CB, but he is a decent #2 or a good #3.  All the stats seem to prove that.

I could make any CB in the league look like crap if I just pointed out everytime he was beaten or committed a penalty and ignored everytime he was good in coverage.  And that is what you are doing with Apple.

[C0de_M0nkey]

Eli Apple was solid in 2021. Easily one of the most improved players in the league. However, he’s a clown off the field. He only had one solid year yet he runs his mouth more than any cornerback in the NFL. We can re-sign him to another short term deal but that’s it. Apple is a system CB, not a cornerstone of the defense.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Wouldn't mind seeing if Rasul Douglas' breakout was real or not.
Wouldn't hate Steven Neslon either.

I also would be perfectly fine with Patrick Peterson on a 1 year deal to just push a longterm fix at CB to next year.

[Au165]

Apple back 1 year 4 million.