OL Free Agents - Bengals vs. Steelers

[shanebo]

I just realized that the Steelers also signed a RT, G, and C. Comparing the contracts (all numbers approximate):

RT:
Bengals - Lael Collins, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - Chukwuma Okorafor, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)

G:
Bengals - Alex Cappa, 4 yrs/$40 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - James Daniels, 3 yrs/$27 mil ($9m per)

C:
Bengals - Ted Karras, 3 yrs/$18 mil ($6m per)
Steelers - Mason Cole, 3 yrs/$15.75 mil ($5.25m per)

In a vacuum, I probably would have preferred Daniels to Cappa -- he's a younger player, more versatile (plays all inside positions), and I think he's slightly better (although I'm no OL guru ...), plus he's cheaper and the contract is shorter. But I recognize that Cappa has the intangibles we're looking for -- championship experience, played with Brady, etc. And his contract may end up being cheaper without incentives (4 yrs/$35 mil.) Cappa also graded better than Daniels last year, although he played on a better line with a better QB. So I'll trust our front office on this one.

I prefer Karras to Cole. He's a little older and slightly more expensive, but he's more versatile and a better player. And again, he has the championship/Brady (and Belichick) intangibles.

Collins v. Okorafor is no contest. Collins is a far better player, and we got him for the same price as the Steelers paid for the mediocre Okorafor. Should prove to be a great signing as long as he stays healthy and out of trouble.

So overall, I think the Bengals did a better job in signing OL FAs than the Steelers. I understand that it's far to early to compare FA success or contract values, but it still makes me happy ... Kudos to the Bengals front office!

[*Go Cards*]

Collins definitely tips the scale in the Bengals favor imo

[grampahol]

The Bengal signees get to protect JoeyB and clear paths for JoeM as opposed to Trubisky and whatsisface..  Who do you think has the most incentive to knock it out of the park? It's a no brainer.. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-22-2022, 10:58 AM)shanebo Wrote: I just realized that the Steelers also signed a RT, G, and C.  Comparing the contracts (all numbers approximate):

RT:
Bengals - Lael Collins, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - Chukwuma Okorafor, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)

G:
Bengals - Alex Cappa, 4 yrs/$40 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - James Daniels, 3 yrs/$27 mil ($9m per)

C:
Bengals - Ted Karras, 3 yrs/$18 mil ($6m per)
Steelers - Mason Cole, 3 yrs/$15.75 mil ($5.25m per)

In a vacuum, I probably would have preferred Daniels to Cappa -- he's a younger player, more versatile (plays all inside positions), and I think he's slightly better (although I'm no OL guru ...), plus he's cheaper and the contract is shorter.  But I recognize that Cappa has the intangibles we're looking for -- championship experience, played with Brady, etc.  And his contract may end up being cheaper without incentives (4 yrs/$35 mil.)  Cappa also graded better than Daniels last year, although he played on a better line with a better QB.  So I'll trust our front office on this one.

I prefer Karras to Cole.  He's a little older and slightly more expensive, but he's more versatile and a better player.  And again, he has the championship/Brady (and Belichick) intangibles.

Collins v. Okorafor is no contest.  Collins is a far better player, and we got him for the same price as the Steelers paid for the mediocre Okorafor.  Should prove to be a great signing as long as he stays healthy and out of trouble.

So overall, I think the Bengals did a better job in signing OL FAs than the Steelers.  I understand that it's far to early to compare FA success or contract values, but it still makes me happy ...  Kudos to the Bengals front office!

Cappa's deal is for $35 mil, not $40, as was initially reported. 

[casear2727]

(03-22-2022, 10:58 AM)shanebo Wrote: I just realized that the Steelers also signed a RT, G, and C.  Comparing the contracts (all numbers approximate):

RT:
Bengals - Lael Collins, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - Chukwuma Okorafor, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)

G:
Bengals - Alex Cappa, 4 yrs/$40 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - James Daniels, 3 yrs/$27 mil ($9m per)

C:
Bengals - Ted Karras, 3 yrs/$18 mil ($6m per)
Steelers - Mason Cole, 3 yrs/$15.75 mil ($5.25m per)

In a vacuum, I probably would have preferred Daniels to Cappa -- he's a younger player, more versatile (plays all inside positions), and I think he's slightly better (although I'm no OL guru ...), plus he's cheaper and the contract is shorter.  But I recognize that Cappa has the intangibles we're looking for -- championship experience, played with Brady, etc.  And his contract may end up being cheaper without incentives (4 yrs/$35 mil.)  Cappa also graded better than Daniels last year, although he played on a better line with a better QB.  So I'll trust our front office on this one.

I prefer Karras to Cole.  He's a little older and slightly more expensive, but he's more versatile and a better player.  And again, he has the championship/Brady (and Belichick) intangibles.

Collins v. Okorafor is no contest.  Collins is a far better player, and we got him for the same price as the Steelers paid for the mediocre Okorafor.  Should prove to be a great signing as long as he stays healthy and out of trouble.

So overall, I think the Bengals did a better job in signing OL FAs than the Steelers.  I understand that it's far to early to compare FA success or contract values, but it still makes me happy ...  Kudos to the Bengals front office!

Absolutely no way would I prefer Daniels to Cappa.  The Bears had zero interest in re-signing their own 24 yr old lineman... Im surprised Daniels received the amount he did from the Steelers after the comments by the Bears.  I'll take the guy whose team really wanted to keep him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 10:58 AM)shanebo Wrote: I just realized that the Steelers also signed a RT, G, and C.  Comparing the contracts (all numbers approximate):

RT:
Bengals - Lael Collins, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - Chukwuma Okorafor, 3 yrs/$30 mil ($10m per)

G:
Bengals - Alex Cappa, 4 yrs/$40 mil ($10m per)
Steelers - James Daniels, 3 yrs/$27 mil ($9m per)

C:
Bengals - Ted Karras, 3 yrs/$18 mil ($6m per)
Steelers - Mason Cole, 3 yrs/$15.75 mil ($5.25m per)

In a vacuum, I probably would have preferred Daniels to Cappa -- he's a younger player, more versatile (plays all inside positions), and I think he's slightly better (although I'm no OL guru ...), plus he's cheaper and the contract is shorter.  But I recognize that Cappa has the intangibles we're looking for -- championship experience, played with Brady, etc.  And his contract may end up being cheaper without incentives (4 yrs/$35 mil.)  Cappa also graded better than Daniels last year, although he played on a better line with a better QB.  So I'll trust our front office on this one.

I prefer Karras to Cole.  He's a little older and slightly more expensive, but he's more versatile and a better player.  And again, he has the championship/Brady (and Belichick) intangibles.

Collins v. Okorafor is no contest.  Collins is a far better player, and we got him for the same price as the Steelers paid for the mediocre Okorafor.  Should prove to be a great signing as long as he stays healthy and out of trouble.

So overall, I think the Bengals did a better job in signing OL FAs than the Steelers.  I understand that it's far to early to compare FA success or contract values, but it still makes me happy ...  Kudos to the Bengals front office!

Nice thread Shanebo. I like the comparisons and agree I think we did the better job of the 2 teams. Collins is better than 
Okorafor, Karras is better than Cole and Daniels might have the edge on Cappa simply cause of age and versatility. Higher 
upside but Cappa is pretty young himself and is a much better run blocker right now. We will see who fairs better.

Both teams biggest weakness was their O-lines but Pitt still has a QB problem as well. Biscuit isn't on Burrow's planet as
far as a player.

[jwalker3853]

(03-22-2022, 01:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice thread Shanebo. I like the comparisons and agree I think we did the better job of the 2 teams. Collins is better than 
Okorafor, Karras is better than Cole and Daniels might have the edge on Cappa simply cause of age and versatility. Higher 
upside but Cappa is pretty young himself and is a much better run blocker right now. We will see who fairs better.

Both teams biggest weakness was their O-lines but Pitt still has a QB problem as well. Biscuit isn't on Burrow's planet as
far as a player.

Agreed.   Pretty sure Biscuit will be easier to sack then Ben was.    Don't know that Pitt can count on the QB to extend the play and avoid sacks as much as they have in the past w/ Big Ben.   I do think they improved their Oline tho.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 01:29 PM)jwalker3853 Wrote: Agreed.   Pretty sure Biscuit will be easier to sack then Ben was.    Don't know that Pitt can count on the QB to extend the play and avoid sacks as much as they have in the past w/ Big Ben.   I do think they improved their Oline tho.  

Still don't think it will be enough with Hendrickson, Reader, Hubbard, BJ Hill, Ossai, Kareem, Cam, Tupou and whoever we Draft.

Agree, I think Biscuit will be terrorized by our guys. They do have a much better OL than last year but I don't think it will be enough
to beat us, they still might win a lot of games though as they seem to even when they look like they suck. Tomlin is a good coach.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Daniels was a Twitter darling, for some reason.

He has never been that good in the league and the Bears drafted him to be the heir-apparent at C... and he never played there due him struggling.

[SunsetBengal]

I'd say that the Bengals did well at selecting OL players with skill sets that fit the scheme they intend to execute, as well as players with the mental discipline to keep penalties and assignment blunders to a minimum.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 03:18 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Daniels was a Twitter darling, for some reason.

He has never been that good in the league and the Bears drafted him to be the heir-apparent at C... and he never played there due him struggling.

I like Daniels, he has good technique, great feet, is young and can play all the interior positions.

But honestly Cappa is better as of right now, especially at run blocking.

(03-22-2022, 03:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd say that the Bengals did well at selecting OL players with skill sets that fit the scheme they intend to execute, as well as players with the mental discipline to keep penalties and assignment blunders to a minimum.

I think there is a bit of difference in the scheme though with the players they added. Cappa and Karras are not necessarily 
wide zone O-lineman cause they aren't overly athletic. La'el is extremely athletic though and fits all scheme types, physical 
and athletic which is why I was wanting him here so bad. Dude is a freak, seriously.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like Daniels, he has good technique, great feet, is young and can play all the interior positions.

But honestly Cappa is better as of right now, especially at run blocking.


I think there is a bit of difference in the scheme though with the players they added. Cappa and Karras are not necessarily 
wide zone O-lineman cause they aren't overly athletic. La'el is extremely athletic though and fits all scheme types, physical 
and athletic which is why I was wanting him here so bad. Dude is a freak, seriously.

I'm not so sure that Cappa and Karras will not be suited for a wide zone attack.  Looking at some footage of their blocking, they both seem to be agile and quick enough to get out wide and down field.  Just because they haven't played in a Wide Zone scheme doesn't mean that they won't transition well to it.  I will say that Karras becoming the player that he is, is likely a benefit from the coaching and development he received with the Patriots.  His draft profile looked pretty grim.

[casear2727]

(03-22-2022, 05:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not so sure that Cappa and Karras will not be suited for a wide zone attack.  Looking at some footage of their blocking, they both seem to be agile and quick enough to get out wide and down field.  Just because they haven't played in a Wide Zone scheme doesn't mean that they won't transition well to it.  I will say that Karras becoming the player that he is, is likely a benefit from the coaching and development he received with the Patriots.  His draft profile looked pretty grim.

The wide zone fit us well with the guys we had.  There are no individual assignments, simply block the first guy that crosses your face and allows the RB to move with the flow looking for a breakdown in containment.

I am all for us utilizing some old school in-line power plays especially to the right side this year.  I also predict more double-slide as we have guys now that can sustain a block.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 05:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not so sure that Cappa and Karras will not be suited for a wide zone attack.  Looking at some footage of their blocking, they both seem to be agile and quick enough to get out wide and down field.  Just because they haven't played in a Wide Zone scheme doesn't mean that they won't transition well to it.  I will say that Karras becoming the player that he is, is likely a benefit from the coaching and development he received with the Patriots.  His draft profile looked pretty grim.

Not saying Cappa and Karras can't do it as you know. I am just thinking we might see some different schemes, not all 
wide zone with the guys we added. They can do a lot, all of them and I expect with these vets Pollack can get this OL 
to where he wants it. Just watched La'el talking and he said Pollack was the best OL coach he has ever been around, 
hands down. I like hearing this from a talented player like La'el Collins as I have felt the same about Pollack in the past
but the guy isn't a miracle worker either and I still don't understand putting a guy like Adeniji out there...

Whether this was Pollack's decision or not it was a bad one. Would take Carman or FJ over what we were seeing.

(03-22-2022, 05:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The wide zone fit us well with the guys we had.  There are no individual assignments, simply block the first guy that crosses your face and allows the RB to move with the flow looking for a breakdown ion containment.

I am all for us utilizing some old school in-line power plays especially to the right side this year.  I also predict more double-slide as we have guys now that can sustain a block.

Yes, thinking we see some different blocking than only wide zone in the run game now. Nothing wrong with having more 
to pick from as long as it doesn't confuse anybody. Keep it simple as much as possible. Watching La'el he is special. Such a
great athlete for a big man with insane strength, punch and quickness. Very good pass blocker as well as long as he doesn't
do too much 2 hand punches or let his guy get inside. These are his only weaknesses that I see.

Cappa and Karras are very sound fundamentally and technically which is what makes them so good.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2022, 05:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The wide zone fit us well with the guys we had.  There are no individual assignments, simply block the first guy that crosses your face and allows the RB to move with the flow looking for a breakdown in containment.

I am all for us utilizing some old school in-line power plays especially to the right side this year.  I also predict more double-slide as we have guys now that can sustain a block.

(03-22-2022, 06:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not saying Cappa and Karras can't do it as you know. I am just thinking we might see some different schemes, not all 
wide zone with the guys we added. They can do a lot, all of them and I expect with these vets Pollack can get this OL 
to where he wants it. Just watched La'el talking and he said Pollack was the best OL coach he has ever been around, 
hands down. I like hearing this from a talented player like La'el Collins as I have felt the same about Pollack in the past
but the guy isn't a miracle worker either and I still don't understand putting a guy like Adeniji out there...

Whether this was Pollack's decision or not it was a bad one. Would take Carman or FJ over what we were seeing.


Yes, thinking we see some different blocking than only wide zone in the run game now. Nothing wrong with having more 
to pick from as long as it doesn't confuse anybody. Keep it simple as much as possible. Watching La'el he is special. Such a
great athlete for a big man with insane strength, punch and quickness. Very good pass blocker as well as long as he doesn't
do too much 2 hand punches or let his guy get inside. These are his only weaknesses that I see.

Cappa and Karras are very sound fundamentally and technically which is what makes them so good.

To both, I agree that we will likely see some old-fashioned straight-ahead rushing plays this season, especially since the team made an effort to add guys that are capable of getting movement in the middle.  On that note, I feel lthat no team that truly wants to be successful should rely on one play, such as the wide zone (and it really is just a play, rather than a "scheme") as their only method of moving the ball on the ground.  Plays such as the wide zone will be much more effective when the team can average 4+ per play, straight up the gut.

Not only does being able to rush the ball effectively take a little heat off of Burrow, as the pass rushers are now forced to respect the run, it provides a bona-fide ability to simply hand the ball off with confidence on critical short yardage plays (as evidenced in the Superbowl loss).