Armstead to Dolphins

[*pally*]

expensive deal

Dolphins signing LT Terron Armstead to 5-year, $75M deal. (via @TomPelissero) pic.twitter.com/ltijNppMHe

— NFL (@NFL) March 22, 2022

[TecmoBengals]

Oh wow, I'm glad the Bengals didn't give Armstead such a contract. Good player, but is he going to be on the field?

[leonardfan40]

$15 mil a year for an elite LT is not bad at all. He has serious injury concerns though. Guaranteed money and dead cap hits in future years will determine how good this deal is. If he stays healthy $15 mil a year is an absolute steal.

[*bfine32*]

Gotta see the final terms. I've seen it listed closer to $90 MIL. I was all for bringing TA in on a short term, but not this. Hopefully we can lock up JW next off season for a similar number

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(03-22-2022, 08:58 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: $15 mil a year for an elite LT is not bad at all. He has serious injury concerns though. Guaranteed money and dead cap hits in future years will determine how good this deal is. If he stays healthy $15 mil a year is an absolute steal.

My only thing is he’s 31 already has durability concerns in his youth. You have him signed until he’s 36 will he stay elite that whole time and play the majority of the games? It’s a bit risky to me, but honestly that’s just what’s going to happen with the best available FA some years. Someone will be desperate to pay them.

[CoachGeorge]

As I say, this is really a 2 year $44 millions in guarantees. That was market value. The rest of his deal is fiction.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

A LT who can stay healthy for a QB who can't stay healthy. I can't see that backfiring at all.

[XenoMorph]

(03-22-2022, 08:44 PM)pally Wrote: expensive deal

Dolphins signing LT Terron Armstead to 5-year, $75M deal. (via @TomPelissero) pic.twitter.com/ltijNppMHe

— NFL (@NFL) March 22, 2022

Should make Bridgewater happy...

[GodFather]

(03-23-2022, 01:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A LT who can stay healthy for a QB who can't stay healthy. I can't see that backfiring at all.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 08:44 PM)pally Wrote: expensive deal

Dolphins signing LT Terron Armstead to 5-year, $75M deal. (via @TomPelissero) pic.twitter.com/ltijNppMHe

— NFL (@NFL) March 22, 2022

Once again we get the better player for a better deal. 

Armstead isn't better than Collins, he is older and is hurt nearly every season and we got La'el for 10 mil a year.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-23-2022, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Once again we get the better player for a better deal. 

Armstead isn't better than Collins, he is older and is hurt nearly every season and we got La'el for 10 mil a year.

Rose goggle alert:

In the last 3 seasons, TA has started 37 games, LC 25.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-23-2022, 09:04 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Rose goggle alert:

In the last 3 seasons, TA has started 37 games, LC 25.

Collins had a couple seasons where he missed significant time okay, Armstead is older and misses games every season like Reiff.

I like Collins better as a player to boot. Never wanted Armstead, he would of cost way too much and we wouldn't of been able to 
add our other guys in Cappa, Karras or BJ Hill.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-23-2022, 10:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Collins had a couple seasons where he missed significant time okay, Armstead is older and misses games every season like Reiff.

I like Collins better as a player to boot. Never wanted Armstead, he would of cost way too much and we wouldn't of been able to 
add our other guys in Cappa, Karras or BJ Hill.

For the most part I agree with. I wouldn’t touch TA’s contract. Just as I wouldn’t give away picks (some were advocating multiple picks) for a guy with injury issues of his own on top of character concerns to boot

I think TA is generally overrated. But what surprises me that LC hasn’t sniffed a pro-bowl considering he played for the Cowboys. Bengals, I would understand.

[pdub2005]

(03-23-2022, 11:52 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: For the most part I agree with.  I wouldn’t touch TA’s contract.  Just as I wouldn’t give away picks (some were advocating multiple picks) for a guy with injury issues of his own on top of character concerns to boot

I think TA is generally overrated.  But what surprises me that LC hasn’t sniffed a pro-bowl considering he played for the Cowboys.  Bengals, I would understand.

Probably a victim of being a right tackle. Willie Anderson ran into that a lot throughout his career.

Here are some good quotes from this article about Willie's career:


"During those 13 years, there were 39 offensive tackles voted to the AFC Pro Bowl team, three each season. Only five of those 39 tackles played the right side."


"Anderson was voted to the Pro Bowl three times and Lincoln Kennedy twice from the right side. The other 34 spots went to 10 different left tackles, including Hall of Famers Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden and Willie Roaf. The four offensive tackles voted to the 1990s NFL all-decade team all played left tackle. The four tackles on the 2000s NFL all-decade team also were all left tackles."

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/state-your-case-why-ot-willie-anderson-deserves-hof-consideration

Edit:

Also, Right tackle was not even recognized as a separate position for All-Pro voting until 2016. Just look at 2015, all the tackles were left tackles:

2015 All Pro Tackes:

Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth, Tyron Smith, Trent Williams

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(03-23-2022, 09:04 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Rose goggle alert:

In the last 3 seasons, TA has started 37 games, LC 25.

Hell Armstead's contract status even has an injury designation on ESPN.




Tried my best to find all their injuries out of curiosity and reading injury reports for 8 years.

Terron Armstead
2013: 6-2 [Rookie? I don't see any injury reports]
2014: 14-14 [Neck injury I believe]
2015: 13-13 [Knee injury]
2016: 7-7 [Various knee/quad injuries, ended on IR]
2017: 10-10 [Torn Labrum to start season]
2018: 10-10 [Pectoral injury]
2019: 15-15 [High ankle sprain]
2020: 14-14 [Arm injury, COVID]
2021: 8-8 [Elbow injury, knee injury that required offseason surgery] 
Total: 38 missed games out of 145 games (26.2% injury time)

Kal'El Collins
2015: 12-11 [Rookie? I don't see any injury reports]
2016: 3-3 [Torn foot ligament]
2017: 16-16 
2018: 16-16
2019: 15-15 [Left knee injury]
2020: 0-0 [Hip Surgery]
2021: 12-10 [PED Suspension]
Total: 30 missed games out of 92 non suspension games. (32.6% injury time)

I guess that means technically La'El is more injury prone. But he's more of a boom or bust guy. If he played at least 4 games he'll play all season or he doesn't play at all. Whereas Terron is going to miss 2-6 games every season, but play most of it.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-24-2022, 12:04 AM)pdub2005 Wrote: Probably a victim of being a right tackle. Willie Anderson ran into that a lot throughout his career.

Here are some good quotes from this article about Willie's career:


"During those 13 years, there were 39 offensive tackles voted to the AFC Pro Bowl team, three each season. Only five of those 39 tackles played the right side."


"Anderson was voted to the Pro Bowl three times and Lincoln Kennedy twice from the right side. The other 34 spots went to 10 different left tackles, including Hall of Famers Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden and Willie Roaf. The four offensive tackles voted to the 1990s NFL all-decade team all played left tackle. The four tackles on the 2000s NFL all-decade team also were all left tackles."

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/state-your-case-why-ot-willie-anderson-deserves-hof-consideration

Edit:

Also, Right tackle was not even recognized as a separate position for All-Pro voting until 2016. Just look at 2015, all the tackles were left tackles:

2015 All Pro Tackes:

Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth, Tyron Smith, Trent Williams

That is a very good point but times have chained slighty (even Eric Williams from Dallas who was a contemporary of Willie’s reached 4) but it’s still a problem.

These are recent RT that have received post-season recognition:

Lane Johnson, Tristan Wirfs, Ryan Ramczyk, Trent Brown, Brian O’Neill, Mitchell Schwarz & Orlando Brown, Jr.

I went through a whole bunch of pro-bowl snub articles each year since LC has been in the league. The only ones that complained were Cowboys based. Collins is an excellent RT (and G too). But we aren’t talking the second coming. Some guy was complaining that Jonah was only average. Like it was something to be embarrassed about.

For the first time in recent memory we have a decent line (or should). I am okay with that.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-24-2022, 01:07 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Hell Armstead's contract status even has an injury designation on ESPN.




Tried my best to find all their injuries out of curiosity and reading injury reports for 8 years.

Terron Armstead
2013: 6-2 [Rookie? I don't see any injury reports]
2014: 14-14 [Neck injury I believe]
2015: 13-13 [Knee injury]
2016: 7-7 [Various knee/quad injuries, ended on IR]
2017: 10-10 [Torn Labrum to start season]
2018: 10-10 [Pectoral injury]
2019: 15-15 [High ankle sprain]
2020: 14-14 [Arm injury, COVID]
2021: 8-8 [Elbow injury, knee injury that required offseason surgery] 
Total: 38 missed games out of 145 games (26.2% injury time)

Kal'El Collins
2015: 12-11 [Rookie? I don't see any injury reports]
2016: 3-3 [Torn foot ligament]
2017: 16-16 
2018: 16-16
2019: 15-15 [Left knee injury]
2020: 0-0 [Hip Surgery]
2021: 12-10 [PED Suspension]
Total: 30 missed games out of 92 non suspension games. (32.6% injury time)

I guess that means technically La'El is more injury prone. But he's more of a boom or bust guy. If he played at least 4 games he'll play all season or he doesn't play at all. Whereas Terron is going to miss 2-6 games every season, but play most of it.

My point wasn’t so much a comparison as was to point out that when veterans start to reach injuries, they usually continue along that line.

[Yogo]

I guess, I'm actually glad that La'el was suspeneded for that testing fiasco. Gives him a fresher body and more time to heal up before he came to us!

[pdub2005]

(03-24-2022, 04:50 AM)CoachGeorge Wrote: That is a very good point but times have chained slighty (even Eric Williams from Dallas who was a contemporary of Willie’s reached 4) but it’s still a problem.

These are recent RT that have received post-season recognition:

Lane Johnson, Tristan Wirfs, Ryan Ramczyk, Trent Brown, Brian O’Neill, Mitchell Schwarz & Orlando Brown, Jr.

I went through a whole bunch of pro-bowl snub articles each year since LC has been in the league. The only ones that complained were Cowboys based.  Collins is an excellent RT (and G too). But we aren’t talking the second coming.  Some guy was complaining that Jonah was only average.  Like it was something to be embarrassed about.

For the first time in recent memory we have a decent line (or should). I am okay with that.

Not trying to say he is the second coming of Willie Anderson, but yeah he's pretty damn good. I would think he would of made at least one, but as long as there is a LT bias, it will make it hard for RTs to get in. RT really should be allotted its own slot for the pro-bowl. AFC this year had 3 LT's make the pro bowl, I would imagine since 2015 there would of been at least one year where Collins was the 3rd best RT in the NFC. I would obviously need more research, but my point more is that a RT not having a pro-bowl isn't really a knock IMO.

[pdub2005]

(03-24-2022, 04:50 AM)CoachGeorge Wrote: That is a very good point but times have chained slighty (even Eric Williams from Dallas who was a contemporary of Willie’s reached 4) but it’s still a problem.

These are recent RT that have received post-season recognition:

Lane Johnson, Tristan Wirfs, Ryan Ramczyk, Trent Brown, Brian O’Neill, Mitchell Schwarz & Orlando Brown, Jr.

I went through a whole bunch of pro-bowl snub articles each year since LC has been in the league. The only ones that complained were Cowboys based.  Collins is an excellent RT (and G too). But we aren’t talking the second coming.  Some guy was complaining that Jonah was only average.  Like it was something to be embarrassed about.

For the first time in recent memory we have a decent line (or should). I am okay with that.

The fact that Ramcyzk hasn't been to one pro-bowl, but is regarded by some as the best RT in the league, is absurd. As I mentioned in my first reply, since 2016 All-Pro voting has recognized individual positions on the OL, which helps get recognition. However, given that there is both an AFC and NFC pro-bowl roster, its much easier to get named to a pro-bowl than All-Pro.