Bates - FT

[WVUHomer]

First off, entirely speculation on my part.

Second, with the fact we don't seem to be getting closer on the LT contract, would you consider trading Bates to say, Detroit at 2 if they would accept, and replace him with Kyle Hamilton or would he not be a good fit for that role in our D? Would you only require the #2 overall or more for Bates?

Third, the draft can't get here fast enough.

[*Synric*]

Jessie Bates isn't worth the #2 overall pick. I don't even think Bates and the Bengals pick at #31 would be worth the #2 Overall Pick. Even if your just saying Kyle Hamilton I think the Bengals would have to give up alot because that is still the #2 Pick... and if the Bengals are willing to give up that much in trade would Kyle Hamilton be the guy over possibly say Aidan Hutchinson Travon Walker Kayveon Thibideaux Ahmad Gardner? (and that's just defense).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I don’t think he has been consistent enough and the position isn’t valued as much as CB, for example, for Detroit to trade the #2 overall pick for Bates. But, I would trade him for their #32 or #34. Maybe even #66 and #97.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-29-2022, 12:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Jessie Bates isn't worth the #2 overall pick. I don't even think Bates and the Bengals pick at #31 would be worth the #2 Overall Pick. Even if your just saying Kyle Hamilton I think the Bengals would have to give up alot because that is still the #2 Pick... and if the Bengals are willing to give up that much in trade would Kyle Hamilton be the guy over possibly say Aidan Hutchinson Travon Walker Kayveon Thibideaux Ahmad Gardner? (and that's just defense).

Yep. At best, Bates is maybe worth 32nd overall.


I'd say Bates is more worth probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[*Synric*]

(03-29-2022, 01:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep. At best, Bates is maybe worth 32nd overall.


I'd say Bates is more worth probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

You might and it's a big might considering their Cap but I think Kansas City wants a single high free safety and they have picks 29 and 30... but then you just have to turn around and hope Daxton Hill is there or reach for Lewis Cine.

[WVUHomer]

(03-29-2022, 01:40 PM)Synric Wrote: You might and it's a big might considering their Cap but I think Kansas City wants a single high free safety and they have picks 29 and 30... but then you just have to turn around and hope Daxton Hill is there or reach for Lewis Cine.

All fair points. I was trying to think who had cap space to make it work. I was trying to reference the Adams trade from Sea to NYJ as my gauge and figured 2 would be equal to 2 mid 1sts. I'd consider 29 and 30 to have 3 straight 1sts

[casear2727]

(03-29-2022, 01:44 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: All fair points. I was trying to think who had cap space to make it work. I was trying to reference the Adams trade from Sea to NYJ as my gauge and figured 2 would be equal to 2 mid 1sts. I'd consider 29 and 30 to have 3 straight 1sts

I definitely think we fans overvalue Bates quite a bit. Im not sure any team would take Bates and his high contract demand over Hamilton who will most likely end up being the better player and on a rookie deal for 5 years....  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I think the Jets might be a potential trade partner for Bates. They have picks 4, 10, 35, and 38 in the first two rounds. I’d trade him for #38.

[casear2727]

(03-30-2022, 05:46 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think the Jets might be a potential trade partner for Bates. They have picks 4, 10, 35, and 38 in the first two rounds. I’d trade him for #38.

I think our staff would as well.  But with Hamilton, Hill, Brisker and Cine available throughout these picks if Im the Jets I'd say no way.

[WVUHomer]

(03-30-2022, 05:50 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think our staff would as well.  But with Hamilton, Hill, Brisker and Cine available throughout these picks if Im the Jets I'd say no way.

It's possible but it is also possible they would rather the proven player than the unknown. Were in a shape we could take the risk on the back end to keep contracts manageable for the foreseeable future with Burrow's impending contract.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-30-2022, 05:50 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think our staff would as well.  But with Hamilton, Hill, Brisker and Cine available throughout these picks if Im the Jets I'd say no way.

There has been speculation the Jets could take Hamilton at #4 or 10 (which I think is too high for a S, personally.) If they could trade for Bates with #38, they could target other positions than S with picks 4, 10, and 35.

On the other hand, they may prefer to draft a S in the 1st or 2nd instead of trading for Bates.

[casear2727]

(03-30-2022, 06:11 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: It's possible but it is also possible they would rather the proven player than the unknown. Were in a shape we could take the risk on the back end to keep contracts manageable for the foreseeable future with Burrow's impending contract.

(03-30-2022, 10:06 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There has been speculation the Jets could take Hamilton at #4 or 10 (which I think is too high for a S, personally.) If they could trade for Bates with #38, they could target other positions than S with picks 4, 10, and 35.

On the other hand, they may prefer to draft a S in the 1st or 2nd instead of trading for Bates.

If we dont think Bates is worth the number he is asking I dont see any way that a team with this many early picks would not take a potentially better player in the future on a 5 year rookie deal. Our best bet is probably a team with a solid chance to make a title run missing a critical piece in my opinion.

[Whatever]

(03-30-2022, 10:17 AM)casear2727 Wrote: If we dont think Bates is worth the number he is asking I dont see any way that a team with this many early picks would not take a potentially better player in the future on a 5 year rookie deal. Our best bet is probably a team with a solid chance to make a title run missing a critical piece in my opinion.

It's hard to see any contender giving up draft picks just to back a Brink's truck up to Bates' door when Honey Badger is still sitting out there in FA.  There's also a couple of decent stopgap options in Jaquiski Tartt and Rodney McLeod.  Plus, there's plenty of good FS prospects in the draft.

[casear2727]

(03-30-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's hard to see any contender giving up draft picks just to back a Brink's truck up to Bates' door when Honey Badger is still sitting out there in FA.  There's also a couple of decent stopgap options in Jaquiski Tartt and Rodney McLeod.  Plus, there's plenty of good FS prospects in the draft.

I totally agree, but there is no reason for a team in building mode to come off picks for a FS at that cost, thus the thought a contender might spring to fill a spot..  Williams and Mathieu should be eye openers for Bates.

Our fanbase on social media severely overrates our own. Reading Twitter and FB one would think CJ was Tony Gonzales and Bates was Ed Reed...

[Speedy Thomas]

(03-29-2022, 12:26 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: First off, entirely speculation on my part.

Second, with the fact we don't seem to be getting closer on the LT contract, would you consider trading Bates to say, Detroit at 2 if they would accept, and replace him with Kyle Hamilton or would he not be a good fit for that role in our D? Would you only require the #2 overall or more for Bates?

Third, the draft can't get here fast enough.

First of all, as others have said, Bates is not worth #2 overall.

Second, we are in win-now mode.  With the possible exception of Hamilton, I don't want any rookie lining up at free safety this year or next.

Worse comes to worst, franchise JBII again next year.  This year and next we are all in.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-29-2022, 12:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Jessie Bates isn't worth the #2 overall pick. I don't even think Bates and the Bengals pick at #31 would be worth the #2 Overall Pick. Even if your just saying Kyle Hamilton I think the Bengals would have to give up alot because that is still the #2 Pick... and if the Bengals are willing to give up that much in trade would Kyle Hamilton be the guy over possibly say Aidan Hutchinson Travon Walker Kayveon Thibideaux Ahmad Gardner? (and that's just defense).

Yeah, even if the Bengals somehow could get the 2nd overall pick, I wouldn't use it on Kyle Hamilton. Draft Evan Neal or Sauce in that case.

(03-29-2022, 01:40 PM)Synric Wrote: You might and it's a big might considering their Cap but I think Kansas City wants a single high free safety and they have picks 29 and 30... but then you just have to turn around and hope Daxton Hill is there or reach for Lewis Cine.

If Daxton Hill is there and the Chiefs want a safety, I doubt they trade a 1st rounder for a guy who's going to want 5yr/$90m or something, wouldn't they just draft Daxton Hill themselves and save about $78m?

[*Synric*]

(03-31-2022, 02:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Daxton Hill is there and the Chiefs want a safety, I doubt they trade a 1st rounder for a guy who's going to want 5yr/$90m or something, wouldn't they just draft Daxton Hill themselves and save about $78m?

Daxton Hill is a great NFL safety prospect but right now that is all he is... Jessie Bates is one of the best single high free safeties in the NFL.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-01-2022, 12:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Daxton Hill is a great NFL safety prospect but right now that is all he is... Jessie Bates is one of the best single high free safeties in the NFL.

Some of the time. Depends on which Bates you're getting. That's a real big question to not know the answer to when it costs you a 1st round pick and and $90m/$18m per year.