Why the **** is Jessie Bates not signed yet?

[Stewy]

(08-17-2022, 03:00 PM)jason Wrote: Why even bother franchising him a second time though. It's clear he's not long for this team, and there are plenty of other contracts that are coming up. I don't know for sure, but this all feels like a good time to use the tag while Hill develops, then move on with the rookie deal.

Because if he balls out that means he'll make 20 mill+ and the 2nd tag won't be over 18 mil.  And i wouldn't put it beyond MB to send a message to all agents, that they operate the way they operate, and if you F with us, we'll F with you.....said in a MB kind of way.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-17-2022, 03:41 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Bell is up after this year too. Safety is going to need to be addressed one way or another. 

They should extend Bell. He’s still only 27 years old, playing at a high level, and a team captain. I know they aren’t typically big on 3rd contracts for players, but he’s a prime candidate for one.

[bk42]

With salaries and the salary cap continuing to go up, I think trying to extend Bell & Pratt before the regular season starts would be great if the prices are reasonable

[THE PISTONS]

(08-17-2022, 04:28 PM)J24 Wrote: I think it was clear since last offseason that the Bengals were never going to spend big money on a Safety.  It's clear that Bates deserves more money than what the Bengals are willing to offer at this point. 

The bigger question to me is if the Bengals are willing to spend big money on Higgins.  He has the same agent as Bates and will want at least  40 Million guaranteed(Probably in the 50s)? I just don't see this Front Office willing  to do that.

Is it clear that Bates deserves more than the Bengals offered?

At times, he plays like a top 5 safety. Other times he plays like an average safety.

Say we sign him to a Derwin James type contract and he plays like that average safety...that wrecks our cap.

[J24]

(08-18-2022, 12:15 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Is it clear that Bates deserves more than the Bengals offered?

At times, he plays like a top 5 safety. Other times he plays like an average safety.

Say we sign him to a Derwin James type contract and he plays like that average safety...that wrecks our cap.

Yes without a doubt he deserves a big time contract. Let's look at the facts.

1.) He is reliable.  He has missed one meaningful game in his Career and that was on a short week.

2.) He has lead the team in solo tackles the past two seasons and he was 2nd on the team in solo Tackles in his first two seasons. 

3.) He has made an all pro 2nd team and was the best player at safety according to PFF in 2020. The guy has proved elite ability in his Career. He is still only 25 years old the best football his ahead of him.

4.) He played the best ball of his career during the biggest games of his career.  Can we really afford to lose a player that plays his Best when the lights are on.

5.) He has the highest rate of forced incopletion rate at 19% since the start of 201 season. . 

On the flipside- let's say Bates leaves next season and shows he is the best coverage safety in the NFL for the next 5 seasons? Can the We really afford that as a franchise? 

Also I'm not against losing Bates what I'm against is losing Bates for free. He is too good of a player to let walk without compensation.

[Whatever]

(08-18-2022, 12:52 AM)J24 Wrote: Yes without a doubt he deserves a big time contract. Let's look at the facts.

1.) He is reliable.  He has missed one meaningful game in his Career and that was on a short week.

2.) He has lead the team in solo tackles the past two seasons and he was 2nd on the team in solo Tackles in his first two seasons. 

3.) He has made an all pro 2nd team and was the best player at safety according to PFF in 2020. The guy has proved elite ability in his Career. He is still only 25 years old the best football his ahead of him.

4.) He played the best ball of his career during the biggest games of his career.  Can we really afford to lose a player that plays his Best when the lights are on.

5.) He has the highest rate of forced incopletion rate at 19% since the start of 201 season. . 

On the flipside- let's say Bates leaves next season and shows he is the best coverage safety in the NFL for the next 5 seasons? Can the We really afford that as a franchise? 

Also I'm not against losing Bates what I'm against is losing Bates for free. He is too good of a player to let walk without compensation.

He's been durable, but you can't call him reliable given how erratic his level of play is.

Both James and Fitzpatrick had more solo tackles last year than Bates has had during any year of his career.  Lots of players peak during their rookie deals and never achieve those levels of play again, especially one year wonders.  Case in point, look at Robert Geathers.  He had 10.5 sacks the third year of his career and never had more than 3.5 any year after that.  

James and Fitzpatrick are both multi time 1st team All Pro's as well as multi time Pro Bowlers.  Bates' one year as a second team All Pro doesn't bring his resume in line with theirs.  Furthermore, both have proven that they aren't just one year wonders.  Bates has not.

Depends on what he wants.  Is Dax Hill at FS + $18-20 mil/year to spend on other positions better for the team than Bates?  Dexter Jackson played his best ball when the lights were brightest, too.  It doesn't mean he was worth elite money.

James and Fitzpatrick's Passer Rating When Targeted in their best and worst seasons are much better than Bates'.  Forced Incompletion rate isn't a great start to use when determining if someone is good in coverage.  A guy can get burned a lot, but still get his hands on lots of balls.

What if WJIII had left and become the next Revis?  There is very little to indicate Bates will establish himself as the best cover S over the next 5 years.  

Nobody is trading for a one year wonder at S coming off a terrible season that wants paid at an elite level.  

[sandwedge]

(08-18-2022, 12:52 AM)J24 Wrote: Yes without a doubt he deserves a big time contract. Let's look at the facts.

1.) He is reliable.  He has missed one meaningful game in his Career and that was on a short week.

2.) He has lead the team in solo tackles the past two seasons and he was 2nd on the team in solo Tackles in his first two seasons. 

3.) He has made an all pro 2nd team and was the best player at safety according to PFF in 2020. The guy has proved elite ability in his Career. He is still only 25 years old the best football his ahead of him.

4.) He played the best ball of his career during the biggest games of his career.  Can we really afford to lose a player that plays his Best when the lights are on.

5.) He has the highest rate of forced incopletion rate at 19% since the start of 201 season. . 

On the flipside- let's say Bates leaves next season and shows he is the best coverage safety in the NFL for the next 5 seasons? Can the We really afford that as a franchise? 

Also I'm not against losing Bates what I'm against is losing Bates for free. He is too good of a player to let walk without compensation.

If the Bengals are going to let Bates walk, why would they compensate him?

[treee]

Sometimes the factors just don't line up. He wants to get paid and that's fair. But with a salary cap, teams need to maximize the production they're getting for each dollar spent. In other words, to field the best team possible.

Our DBs are already very solid with a lot of upside. That combined with the fact that we have so many huge contracts to be signed in the next few years puts him as less likely to get a long term deal here.

It is understandable to want to play under a long term deal instead of the franchise tag. Evidence points to sitting out for a year not being the optimal move for these players, so that pretty much narrows it down to either playing under the tag or having their total compensation impacted by the fact that teams will also have to give up assets to acquire the ability to sign them to a contract (draft picks or other players).

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2022, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They should extend Bell. He’s still only 27 years old, playing at a high level, and a team captain. I know they aren’t typically big on 3rd contracts for players, but he’s a prime candidate for one.

This.

I was not a huge fan of Bell when we signed him because a lot of people claimed he struggled in coverage.  But to me has been one of our better signings.

I love to extend him if we could do it at a reasonable price.  He seems to have become one of the leaders on the defense.

[AlphaBengal]

(08-18-2022, 09:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

I was not a huge fan of Bell when we signed him because a lot of people claimed he struggled in coverage.  But to me has been one of our better signings.

I love to extend him if we could do it at a reasonable price.  He seems to have become one of the leaders on the defense.

I think you have to bring back Bell. You need solid, reliable starters on your roster that won't eat up a big chunk of the cap. All the elite teams have them and he's the perfect candidate for that. 

[The D.O.Z.]

As a veteran leader and solid SS, resigning Bell is a no brainer to me. He’s had some clutch moments for us, and although I love his playoff performance, his hit on Pupu will forever be one of my favorites of all time.

[Soonerpeace]

He’ll be back next week. I expect he’ll play bd the Rams. They are gearing up the matchup vs the Rams to be the one’s only real test of preseason. There won’t be tackling to the ground but everything else will be full go. Bates will play. I think all the starters will play.

[BFritz21]

With the way Dax is playing, I'd be pretty scared if I were Bates.

If we pull the tag, does any team offer him anything at this point that was even close to what we were offering? Does any team offer him anything worthwhile this close to the season?

Could we get anything more than peanuts if we try the tag and trade??

It's sad but Bates agent screwed him, Ben Roethlisberger style.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-21-2022, 09:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: With the way Dax is playing, I'd be pretty scared if I were Bates.

If we pull the tag, does any team offer him anything at this point that was even close to what we were offering? Does any team offer him anything worthwhile this close to the season?

Could we get anything more than peanuts if we try the tag and trade??

It's sad but Bates agent screwed him, Ben Roethlisberger style.

Hill has looked really good so far, in my opinion.
I'd be satisfied with him starting at FS this year if Bates hasn't returned.
Hill is playing fast, he's attacking the ball carrier, and he's making plays in the passing game.
He's what I expected he'd be.

[BengalsBong]

(08-21-2022, 09:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: With the way Dax is playing, I'd be pretty scared if I were Bates.

If we pull the tag, does any team offer him anything at this point that was even close to what we were offering? Does any team offer him anything worthwhile this close to the season?

Could we get anything more than peanuts if we try the tag and trade??

It's sad but Bates agent screwed him, Ben Roethlisberger style.

That would go a long way in getting Burrow, Chase and Tee all longer contracts.

[Whatever]

(08-21-2022, 11:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hill has looked really good so far, in my opinion.
I'd be satisfied with him starting at FS this year if Bates hasn't returned.
Hill is playing fast, he's attacking the ball carrier, and he's making plays in the passing game.
He's what I expected he'd be.

Dax has looked really good.  He's honestly ahead of where I expected him to be and I felt him could come in and be a good starter as a rookie.

[BFritz21]

(08-21-2022, 11:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hill has looked really good so far, in my opinion.
I'd be satisfied with him starting at FS this year if Bates hasn't returned.
Hill is playing fast, he's attacking the ball carrier, and he's making plays in the passing game.
He's what I expected he'd be.

Hill has looked DAMN GOOD!


I'm impressed with his hustle and playmaking abilities! 

He's playing well against the run AND pass and showing great instincts!

I didn't want to lose Bates but, like I keep saying, after half-assing the regular season last year and then turning down our offer (which, by all indications, was fair), I'm ready to move on. 

Rescind the offer and sign a big name that becomes available after last cuts (hopefully an o-lineman), and let Bates watch us make another Super Bowl run!

[BFritz21]

(08-21-2022, 11:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: Dax has looked really good.  He's honestly ahead of where I expected him to be and I felt him could come in and be a good starter as a rookie.

I'm pretty AMAZED by his play!

He's all over the field and he's showing great instincts!

I'm not saying I know better than anyone else, but I played safety before the wreck so I'm LOVING watching his play and I'm VERY impressed!

[J24]

(08-21-2022, 09:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: With the way Dax is playing, I'd be pretty scared if I were Bates.

If we pull the tag, does any team offer him anything at this point that was even close to what we were offering? Does any team offer him anything worthwhile this close to the season?

Could we get anything more than peanuts if we try the tag and trade??

It's sad but Bates agent screwed him, Ben Roethlisberger style.

1.) Why would we get nothing for him at this point? Did his playoff tape disappear overnight? Did his 2020 tape dissappear as well?

1b.) Why pull the plug now on the franchise tag on him now? We wouldn't even get a comp pick for him right now.

2.)Bates and Hill can play together; Hill has been just as impressive from the Slot as deep Safety. Both him and Bates make us a better team!

3.) His agent is trying to get a fair deal for Him! How did he screw him again?

(08-21-2022, 11:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hill has looked really good so far, in my opinion.
I'd be satisfied with him starting at FS this year if Bates hasn't returned.
Hill is playing fast, he's attacking the ball carrier, and he's making plays in the passing game.
He's what I expected he'd be.

Dude is a stud and his versatility is unquestionable.

[BFritz21]

(08-21-2022, 11:22 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: That would go a long way in getting Burrow, Chase and Tee all longer contracts.

I don't think so because the tag would only be used for this year and wouldn't impact the deals being signed next offseason.

I do think it could help us sign some impact players that become available.