Jonah Williams - On Notice

[XenoMorph]

(04-25-2022, 08:21 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Well the thing is and something I was mistaken about is that the Bengals only have until May 2nd to agree to his 5th year option.  So it is kind of tricky to say make it a prove it year.   If they don't commit to the 5th year option then he is a free agent next year.  If he plays good or great that leaves the Bengals with options to either franchise tag him and paying him a guaranteed salary based on the average of the top 5 salaries at his position (which would be very expensive, the tag value for O-line was $16.6 million this year and will most likely be more next year) or trying to work out a longer term deal.  See the recent issues with Jesse Bates and the tag for how that can be complicated.  

But given last season he was fairly solid and I expect barring injury he will continue to improve it makes sense to me to pick up the 5th year option instead of saying to him this is a "prove it year."  I think given the struggles the Bengals have had finding even an average LT over the years he is worth that 5th year option locked in at 12.6 million.  

they can resend the 5th year option before it kicks in next season right?

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2022, 12:16 AM)Housh Wrote: They’ll 100% pick up his option but we are definitely drafting a guy this year for that position. If Jonah doesn’t show Improvement I’d rather just avoid the vet price tag and go rookie or free agency.

Are you sure that the team is looking to replace him so quickly?  I believe that there were only 6 or 7 Tackles in all of the NFL that graded higher than Williams (77.9 PFF) last season.  While he might not appear flashy or exceptionally dominate in anyone's eyes, he's clearly doing a good job.

[Luvnit2]

(04-26-2022, 08:05 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: they can resend the 5th year option before it kicks in next season right?

No, once they make the offer, either they pay him the salary for next year or they can sign him to a long term deal. Look at Mayfield, Browns are on the hook for over 18 million for one year (2022) and teams are reluctant to trade for Mayfield due to only 1 year contract and it appears Mayfield is messing with the Browns and will not talk to some teams for a longer contract.

In essence, Mayfield's trade value is dropping for the Browns and the Browns need to dump his 2022 salary, but can't unless they find a trade partner. They cut him, they still have to pay him the entire contract.

[XenoMorph]

(04-26-2022, 09:16 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: No, once they make the offer, either they pay him the salary for next year or they can sign him to a long term deal. Look at Mayfield, Browns are on the hook for over 18 million for one year (2022) and teams are reluctant to trade for Mayfield due to only 1 year contract and it appears Mayfield is messing with the Browns and will not talk to some teams for a longer contract.

In essence, Mayfield's trade value is dropping for the Browns and the Browns need to dump his 2022 salary, but can't unless they find a trade partner. They cut him, they still have to pay him the entire contract.

okay maybe that was it they can get out of the 5th year option by signing to a long term contract. i just remember a way to get out of it

[Millhouse]

My prediction with Jonah is that this coming season will be his best one yet. Keep in mind I have been a bit critical of him, but I never viewed him on the level of all those other 1st/2nd round lineman busts they drafted before him.

I just think with the three new lineman they brought in, it will be an invigorating boost for Jonah in upping his game. He will now be playing on a line with legit veterans which can't be anything but positive for him.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-26-2022, 08:06 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you sure that the team is looking to replace him so quickly?  I believe that there were only 6 or 7 Tackles in all of the NFL that graded higher than Williams (77.9 PFF) last season.  While he might not appear flashy or exceptionally dominate in anyone's eyes, he's clearly doing a good job.

The following OTs were rated higher:

Trent Williams (96.6)
Tyron Smith (90.2)
Jordan Mailata (88.3)
Andrew Whitworth (87.2)
Kolton Miller (85.0)
Tristan Wirfs (84.3)
Ryan Ramczyk (84.1)
Rashawn Slater (83.6)
Rob Havenstein (83.4)
Lane Johnson (83.3)
Elgton Jenkins (82.1)
Charles Leno (81.2)
Braden Smith (80.6)
Donovan Smith (80.5)
La'el Collins (80.2)
Tom Compton (79.9)
Dion Dawkins (79.4)
David Quessenberry (79.1)
Andrew Thomas (78.9)
Jack Conklin (78.8)

The big thing with Williams is he doesn't allow many bad snaps. But the rare ones that he does have often led to sacks. Given he's not putting people on their butts on the reps that he wins, those good reps aren't getting as noticed. But the bad reps are noticed heavily because they're resulting in about the worst outcome (sack).

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2022, 10:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The following OTs were rated higher:

Trent Williams (96.6)
Tyron Smith (90.2)
Jordan Mailata (88.3)
Andrew Whitworth (87.2)
Kolton Miller (85.0)
Tristan Wirfs (84.3)
Ryan Ramczyk (84.1)
Rashawn Slater (83.6)
Rob Havenstein (83.4)
Lane Johnson (83.3)
Elgton Jenkins (82.1)
Charles Leno (81.2)
Braden Smith (80.6)
Donovan Smith (80.5)
La'el Collins (80.2)
Tom Compton (79.9)
Dion Dawkins (79.4)
David Quessenberry (79.1)
Andrew Thomas (78.9)
Jack Conklin (78.8)

The big thing with Williams is he doesn't allow many bad snaps. But the rare ones that he does have often led to sacks. Given he's not putting people on their butts on the reps that he wins, those good reps aren't getting as noticed. But the bad reps are noticed heavily because they're resulting in about the worst outcome (sack).

So Jonah is basically a top 20 OT (top 3rd of the league starters) and only 24 years old.

You don't walk, you run to claim that 5th season.

[Frank Booth]

(04-26-2022, 10:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The following OTs were rated higher:

Trent Williams (96.6)
Tyron Smith (90.2)
Jordan Mailata (88.3)
Andrew Whitworth (87.2)
Kolton Miller (85.0)
Tristan Wirfs (84.3)
Ryan Ramczyk (84.1)
Rashawn Slater (83.6)
Rob Havenstein (83.4)
Lane Johnson (83.3)
Elgton Jenkins (82.1)
Charles Leno (81.2)
Braden Smith (80.6)
Donovan Smith (80.5)
La'el Collins (80.2)
Tom Compton (79.9)
Dion Dawkins (79.4)
David Quessenberry (79.1)
Andrew Thomas (78.9)
Jack Conklin (78.8)

The big thing with Williams is he doesn't allow many bad snaps. But the rare ones that he does have often led to sacks. Given he's not putting people on their butts on the reps that he wins, those good reps aren't getting as noticed. But the bad reps are noticed heavily because they're resulting in about the worst outcome (sack).

Whitworth is retired

Now see where Jonah ranks within Left Tackles

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2022, 10:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The following OTs were rated higher:

Trent Williams (96.6)
Tyron Smith (90.2)
Jordan Mailata (88.3)
Andrew Whitworth (87.2)
Kolton Miller (85.0)
Tristan Wirfs (84.3)
Ryan Ramczyk (84.1)
Rashawn Slater (83.6)
Rob Havenstein (83.4)
Lane Johnson (83.3)
Elgton Jenkins (82.1)
Charles Leno (81.2)
Braden Smith (80.6)
Donovan Smith (80.5)
La'el Collins (80.2)
Tom Compton (79.9)
Dion Dawkins (79.4)
David Quessenberry (79.1)
Andrew Thomas (78.9)
Jack Conklin (78.8)

The big thing with Williams is he doesn't allow many bad snaps. But the rare ones that he does have often led to sacks. Given he's not putting people on their butts on the reps that he wins, those good reps aren't getting as noticed. But the bad reps are noticed heavily because they're resulting in about the worst outcome (sack).

Yeah, my mistake, I meant LT.  I double checked, 8 LTs had higher grades than Williams, not 6 or 7.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-26-2022, 11:09 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, my mistake, I meant LT.  I double checked, 8 LTs had higher grades than Williams, not 6 or 7.

Top 10 is still pretty damn good. And he still has plenty of room to improve, too, at only 24 years old.

[Frank Booth]

a top 10 LT at age 24 and people here want him replaced

[*ochocincos*]

(04-26-2022, 11:06 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Whitworth is retired

Now see where Jonah ranks within Left Tackles

Yes I know Whitworth is retired.
I'm not going to go through every team's depth chart to find out who is a LT vs RT.
Feel free to go do so.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2022, 11:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Top 10 is still pretty damn good. And he still has plenty of room to improve, too, at only 24 years old.

I wasn't using his ranking to reflect negatively, but rather as a reason why the Bengals might be reluctant to cut bait with him.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-26-2022, 11:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wasn't using his ranking to reflect negatively, but rather as a reason why the Bengals might be reluctant to cut bait with him.

Oh I know. I was just reiterating what you were saying. He’s a top 10 LT, and young. The team would be crazy to not exercise his 5th year (they will).

[grampahol]

(04-25-2022, 11:32 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I would prefer to keep Jonah as LTs are hard to find. But what if D’ante plays well this preseason? What if D’ante plays well in spot duty / swing tackle during the season? What if Carman plays well at LG, would they consider moving Carman to his natural position (ugh, another position shuffle) and draft a natural LG the following draft? There ARE options, and I can see WHY if they choose NOT to pick up his 5th year option.

What if none of them are able to leap tall buildings at a single bound? What is none of them are actually faster than speeding bullets? What if none of them are more powerful than locomotives? Don't look up in the sky as they're not planes, they're not birds and they're not supermen..
Jonah will do just fine barring a serious injury and it'll be a high bar for any of his backups to blow past him in the starting pecking order.

[Daddy-O]

(04-26-2022, 11:20 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: a top 10 LT at age 24 and people here want him replaced

unbelievable

[grampahol]

(04-26-2022, 12:34 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: unbelievable

To be fair he's not a 100% perfect human being in every possible aspect..  Some things are important yaknow..

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-26-2022, 10:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The following LTs were rated higher:

Trent Williams (96.6)
Tyron Smith (90.2)
Jordan Mailata (88.3)
Andrew Whitworth (87.2)
Kolton Miller (85.0)
Rashawn Slater (83.6)
Charles Leno (81.2)
Donovan Smith (80.5)
Dion Dawkins (79.4)
Andrew Thomas (78.9)

Fixed it

[NotBigzo]

(04-26-2022, 12:46 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Bunch of psychopaths in here lmao

Jonah Williams is one of the better LT’s in the league, and he’s young

I wouldn't take it this far...but it could be worse. 

I'd pick up the opition just to kick the can down the road. 

[Shake n Blake]

He's solid, but certainly unspectacular. 8 sacks allowed certainly isn't ideal, and he has had previous health issues. 5th year option is probably the perfect route to take.

Let him prove he's worthy of a long term deal. We can't just throw around money haphazardly anymore. We have too many big contracts on the horizon. At this point I think he's right on the threshold of players we could replace in the draft later, if we need to.