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Bengals have a very interesting history with the #31 pick
1969...MLB Bill Bergey. One of the greatest picks ever. He fell out with Mike Brown over money and was traded. Bergey was so good that we got 2 first round picks and a second round pick in return. And this was before free agency when draft picks had more value. He was the Defensive Rookie of the Year, 2 time All-Pro, and 5 time Pro Bowl. At one time he was the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. Before stats were an official stat he was credited with over 200 in a 14 game season with the Eagles.
1980...Kirby Criswell. Never played a snap for the Bengals. This was when I was in high school and obsessed with the Bengals, yet I do not do not remember anything about this guy. I don't even recall being upset over a second round pick getting cut before his rookie season.
1988...RB Ickey Woods. Home run pick.
1992...WR Carl Pickens. Another home run. Offensive Rookie of the Year. 2 time Pro Bowl. Holds Bengal season record for receiving tds (17). From '94 through '96 averaged 90 rec, 1180 yds, and 13 tds. Also had 82 for 1023 in '98.
Three elite players in 4 shots. Not bad. Let's look at the league overall.
Hall of Fame...Flanker Tommy McDonald, 1957, Eagles. DT Durley Culp, 1968, Chiefs
All-Pro...There have been 10 All-Pro players selected at #31. The most recent was OC Travis Frederick, 2013, Dallas. Five of the ten earned All-Pro multiple times. 1953 LB Bill Forester (3 times)... 1968 Bergey (twice)... 1977 DB Nolan Cromwell (3 times)... 2003 DB Nnamdi Asomugha (twice)... 2011 DE Cameron Heywood (3 times)
Pro-Bowl...20 players. Most recent was Frederick in 2013. There have been 16 players taken at #31 that were selected to multiple Pro Bowls, but only 7 since Pickens, who went to 2, in 1992. 1999 LB Al Wilson (5 times)... 2001 TE Todd Heap (twice)... 2003 Asomugha (3 times)... 2007 TE Greg Olsen (3 times)... 2011 Heyward (5 times)... 2012 RD Doug Martin (twice)... 2013 Frederick (5 times)
So plenty of history of great players selected at #31.
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Nnamdi Asomugha, haven’t heard that name in a while but it was always fun to say
Looks like pick 31 has had a pretty impressive success rate overall. Hope we get a HR pick there this year too if we stay put.
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(04-27-2022, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals have a very interesting history with the #31 pick
1969...MLB Bill Bergey. One of the greatest picks ever. He fell out with Mike Brown over money and was traded. Bergey was so good that we got 2 first round picks and a second round pick in return. And this was before free agency when draft picks had more value. He was the Defensive Rookie of the Year, 2 time All-Pro, and 5 time Pro Bowl. At one time he was the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. Before stats were an official stat he was credited with over 200 in a 14 game season with the Eagles.
1980...Kirby Criswell. Never played a snap for the Bengals. This was when I was in high school and obsessed with the Bengals, yet I do not do not remember anything about this guy. I don't even recall being upset over a second round pick getting cut before his rookie season.
1988...RB Ickey Woods. Home run pick.
1992...WR Carl Pickens. Another home run. Offensive Rookie of the Year. 2 time Pro Bowl. Holds Bengal season record for receiving tds (17). From '94 through '96 averaged 90 rec, 1180 yds, and 13 tds. Also had 82 for 1023 in '98.
Three elite players in 4 shots. Not bad. Let's look at the league overall.
Hall of Fame...Flanker Tommy McDonald, 1957, Eagles. DT Durley Culp, 1968, Chiefs
All-Pro...There have been 10 All-Pro players selected at #31. The most recent was OC Travis Frederick, 2013, Dallas. Five of the ten earned All-Pro multiple times. 1953 LB Bill Forester (3 times)... 1968 Bergey (twice)... 1977 DB Nolan Cromwell (3 times)... 2003 DB Nnamdi Asomugha (twice)... 2011 DE Cameron Heywood (3 times)
Pro-Bowl...20 players. Most recent was Frederick in 2013. There have been 16 players taken at #31 that were selected to multiple Pro Bowls, but only 7 since Pickens, who went to 2, in 1992. 1999 LB Al Wilson (5 times)... 2001 TE Todd Heap (twice)... 2003 Asomugha (3 times)... 2007 TE Greg Olsen (3 times)... 2011 Heyward (5 times)... 2012 RD Doug Martin (twice)... 2013 Frederick (5 times)
So plenty of history of great players selected at #31.
Was he, though? I know we all love the shuffle and the '88 team reaching the SB, but he only had 459 career rushing yards (at 3.6 YPC) after his rookie year.
If the Bengals draft a player at #31 in 2022 who is good for 1 year, then injured+bad for 3 years, then promptly out of the league... are we really going to call that a home run pick?
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(04-27-2022, 06:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Was he, though? I know we all love the shuffle and the '88 team reaching the SB, but he only had 459 career rushing yards (at 3.6 YPC) after his rookie year.
If the Bengals draft a player at #31 in 2022 who is good for 1 year, then injured+bad for 3 years, then promptly out of the league... are we really going to call that a home run pick?
Yes. We only got one good season from Eifert and everyone calls that a great pick.
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(04-27-2022, 08:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes. We only got one good season from Eifert and everyone calls that a great pick.
Everyone calls that a great pick? Who is everyone and where are they saying this?
He was the first TE taken and yet he wasn't even a top-3 TE from his own draft. I don't think I would go as far as calling him an outright bust, but I honestly don't think I have ever seen "everyone" (or even a large amount of people) saying that Eifert was a great draft pick.
Or are you doing some Fred shit where you're referring to people posting on here directly after the 2015 season (but before he hurt himself in the Pro Bowl of all places) rather than from when there's actual context and capability to judge the pick?
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(04-27-2022, 11:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Everyone calls that a great pick? Who is everyone and where are they saying this?
He was the first TE taken and yet he wasn't even a top-3 TE from his own draft. I don't think I would go as far as calling him an outright bust, but I honestly don't think I have ever seen "everyone" (or even a large amount of people) saying that Eifert was a great draft pick.
Or are you doing some Fred shit where you're referring to people posting on here directly after the 2015 season (but before he hurt himself in the Pro Bowl of all places) rather than from when there's actual context and capability to judge the pick?
Lol, so true. We thought Eifert might of been a great pick after the 2015 season he had and that thought went away quickly.
I love Ickey Woods and Eifert but neither of them were home run picks as they didn't have great long careers like lots of the
other players on here. Ickey was great for us his rookie year though no question with Brooks and Wilson along his side.
Bergey and Pickens were pretty great though even if Pickens was an A-hole. I don't think we pick at 31 anyways tomorrow.
I think we trade back into the 2nd round and get some great value, at least I hope as such unless there is great value at 31.
Who knows though? The Draft is always weird and it is even weirder for us picking at 31 the first time in 33 years...
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(04-27-2022, 11:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Everyone calls that a great pick? Who is everyone and where are they saying this?
He was the first TE taken and yet he wasn't even a top-3 TE from his own draft. I don't think I would go as far as calling him an outright bust, but I honestly don't think I have ever seen "everyone" (or even a large amount of people) saying that Eifert was a great draft pick.
Or are you doing some Fred shit where you're referring to people posting on here directly after the 2015 season (but before he hurt himself in the Pro Bowl of all places) rather than from when there's actual context and capability to judge the pick?
We are talking about two different things here.
I am judging the Bengals decision on draft day to pick players that are capable of top production in the NFL. Based on that, both the selections of Woods and Eifert were great picks.
What you are doing is judging the Bengals decision on draft day based on information that was not available on draft day. In your opinion the people who said Eifert was a great pick in 2015 were correct AT THAT TIME and the people who later said it was not a great pick were also correct. To me it does not make sense to judge a decision made in 2013 to be both "great" and "not great" depending on things that happened after 2013.
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A blown out knee or any other serious injury back before some of the huge advances in sports medicine never does not could diminish anyone's greatness in a single season. If Woods had been born almost 30 years later does anyone doubt he would have easily come back from a torn ACL?
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
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(04-27-2022, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1969...MLB Bill Bergey. One of the greatest picks ever. He fell out with Mike Brown over money and was traded. Bergey was so good that we got 2 first round picks and a second round pick in return. And this was before free agency when draft picks had more value. He was the Defensive Rookie of the Year, 2 time All-Pro, and 5 time Pro Bowl. At one time he was the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. Before stats were an official stat he was credited with over 200 in a 14 game season with the Eagles.
1980...Kirby Criswell. Never played a snap for the Bengals. This was when I was in high school and obsessed with the Bengals, yet I do not do not remember anything about this guy. I don't even recall being upset over a second round pick getting cut before his rookie season.
1988...RB Ickey Woods. Home run pick.
1992...WR Carl Pickens. Another home run. Offensive Rookie of the Year. 2 time Pro Bowl. Holds Bengal season record for receiving tds (17). From '94 through '96 averaged 90 rec, 1180 yds, and 13 tds. Also had 82 for 1023 in '98.
Three elite players in 4 shots. Not bad. Let's look at the league overall.
Hall of Fame...Flanker Tommy McDonald, 1957, Eagles. DT Durley Culp, 1968, Chiefs
All-Pro...There have been 10 All-Pro players selected at #31. The most recent was OC Travis Frederick, 2013, Dallas. Five of the ten earned All-Pro multiple times. 1953 LB Bill Forester (3 times)... 1968 Bergey (twice)... 1977 DB Nolan Cromwell (3 times)... 2003 DB Nnamdi Asomugha (twice)... 2011 DE Cameron Heywood (3 times)
Pro-Bowl...20 players. Most recent was Frederick in 2013. There have been 16 players taken at #31 that were selected to multiple Pro Bowls, but only 7 since Pickens, who went to 2, in 1992. 1999 LB Al Wilson (5 times)... 2001 TE Todd Heap (twice)... 2003 Asomugha (3 times)... 2007 TE Greg Olsen (3 times)... 2011 Heyward (5 times)... 2012 RD Doug Martin (twice)... 2013 Frederick (5 times)
So plenty of history of great players selected at #31.
(04-28-2022, 11:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We are talking about two different things here.
I am judging the Bengals decision on draft day to pick players that are capable of top production in the NFL. Based on that, both the selections of Woods and Eifert were great picks.
What you are doing is judging the Bengals decision on draft day based on information that was not available on draft day. In your opinion the people who said Eifert was a great pick in 2015 were correct AT THAT TIME and the people who later said it was not a great pick were also correct. To me it does not make sense to judge a decision made in 2013 to be both "great" and "not great" depending on things that happened after 2013.
BS Fred.
You specified accolades that they earned during their career to justify why they were home run picks and made categories of other guys who went into the Hall of Fame (was that information that was available on draft day?) and All-Pro. You even called a guy not a home-run pick because he never played a snap for the Bengals and was cut after his first year. That has nothing to do with "decisions on draft day", that's information that was not available on draft day.
Literally every 31st overall pick is "capable" of top production in the NFL. That's why they were the 31st pick.
Even with a pretty thorough edit of your post later, it's still weak.
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(04-28-2022, 07:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Literally every 31st overall pick is "capable" of top production in the NFL. That's why they were the 31st pick.
I disagree. History has proven that many first round picks fail to produce even though they are healthy. Fans who understand the NFL can easily see the difference between the selections of JaMarcus Russell and Robert Griffen III. One was a complete bust who never did anything. The other showed elite talent before being cut down by injuries. I don't know anyone who rate those two picks as being the same quality.
But it doesn't matter because every player I listed as a great pick actually showed top production at the NFL level. Eifert was a Pro Bowl player who was 4th in the NFL in receiving tds. Ickey Woods rushed for over 1000 yds, led the league in yards per carry and finished 2nd in rushing tds in '88.
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I'd say Hill has about as good a shot as anyone of making this year's #31 pick a memorable one, when we look back in 10 years.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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(04-29-2022, 11:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd say Hill has about as good a shot as anyone of making this year's #31 pick a memorable one, when we look back in 10 years.
Yes. I agree. Seems to have the physical tools. Was a 5 star recruit too I think I saw.
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(04-29-2022, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. I agree. Seems to have the physical tools. Was a 5 star recruit too I think I saw.
I have no issues with that selection. The defense just got smarter and faster last night.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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(04-29-2022, 11:28 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have no issues with that selection. The defense just got smarter and faster last night.
It's what you need on defense. Pass rush and fast secondary guys.
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fills in that Ricado Allen role this year (3 saftey looks).... Potentially fills a spot next year.
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