Failure in the Redzone - Whats up ?

[*bengalfan74*]

According to Teamrankings.com we were ranked 23rd in the NFL in RZ touchdown scoring at 54.5 % in 2021, bottom 3rd of the league. In 2020 we were 30th at 50%. So we improved a bit but IMO it needs to jump a lot this season to stay in the hunt.

What has been the problem ? Can it all be blamed on the Oline ? Is our lack of being able to run the ball on 3rd and 2 up the gut that's killing us ? Has the play calling been some of the issue ?

We just can't have half of our RZ appearances end in FG's this season given our schedule. To me this has been one of our bigger issues and it needs fixed.

[WeezyBengal]

Shorter field, bad OL, lack of run game = poor red zone efficiency.

[KillerGoose]

As you get closer to the endzone, the ability to run the ball becomes more important. In the redzone, if we classify short-yardage situations as two yards or less, they ranked 29th in the league.  They converted only 16% of these attempts. Pretty rough. 

[Soonerpeace]

(05-16-2022, 11:11 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: According to Teamrankings.com we were ranked 23rd in the NFL in RZ touchdown scoring at 54.5 % in 2021, bottom 3rd of the league. In 2020 we were 30th at 50%. So we improved a bit but IMO it needs to jump a lot this season to stay in the hunt.

What has been the problem ? Can it all be blamed on the Oline ? Is our lack of being able to run the ball on 3rd and 2 up the gut that's killing us ? Has the play calling been some of the issue ?

We just can't have half of our RZ appearances end in FG's this season given our schedule. To me this has been one of our bigger issues and it needs fixed.

You have to have some semblance of a run game. We can only run the ball with two tight ends. Then that restricts your keeping the defense honest. Until we can run out of 01 personnel or the like forget it

[leonardfan40]

(05-16-2022, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Shorter field, bad OL, lack of run game = poor red zone efficiency.

This^

Better o line will solve a lot of our red zone issues. When you don’t have the threat of run or get stuffed after a 1-2 gain if that in the red zone it makes it nearly impossible to score. Teams can drop guys and play more aggressive on the shorter field. If our o line plays as well as they should with the new additions, we should be much better down there.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2022, 11:27 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: As you get closer to the endzone, the ability to run the ball becomes more important. In the redzone, if we classify short-yardage situations as two yards or less, they ranked 29th in the league.  They converted only 16% of these attempts. Pretty rough. 

That's bad, really bad ! I hope they make the between the tackles running a major point of emphasis this pre-season. We're not going to win many games especially in the back half of the season kicking FG's.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2022, 11:28 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You have to have some semblance of a run game. We can only run the ball with two tight ends. Then that restricts your keeping the defense honest. Until we can run out of 01 personnel or the like forget it

Especially when your 2nd TE is basically 0 threat as a pass catcher.

[sandwedge]

Gotta be able to run between the tackles.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2022, 11:36 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: This^

Better o line will solve a lot of our red zone issues. When you don’t have the threat of run or get stuffed after a 1-2 gain if that in the red zone it makes it nearly impossible to score. Teams can drop guys and play more aggressive on the shorter field. If our o line plays as well as they should with the new additions, we should be much better down there.

I sure hope they're solved. We've got to improve scoring TD's in the RZ to stay on top. Have to !

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2022, 11:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Especially when your 2nd TE is basically 0 threat as a pass catcher.

Any chance Moss or whoever can move Sample out of that spot ?

[*ochocincos*]

It's usually a mix of things.
Inability to pick up critical short distances in the run game allows teams to expect more passing.
Having a poor pass blocking OL allows for those defenders to get to the QB quicker.
Having a shorter field makes separation more difficult.
Deciding which specific plays to call also contributes to all of the above.

[KillerGoose]

(05-16-2022, 11:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Any chance Moss or whoever can move Sample out of that spot ?

I am not optimistic. Thad is small for a TE. People see that he is listed at 6'3 on the roster, but he measured in at 6'1 at the combine. He isn't very fast. He is not a plus athlete. He isn't a great blocker. He wasn't even very good at LSU. I don't see him being much other than PS material. 

[Housh]

(05-16-2022, 11:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Any chance Moss or whoever can move Sample out of that spot ?

I feel like if Moss was worth anything he’d a took Samples spot by now. Not like trying to crap on Sample either.
Dude just isn’t that good.

[*pally*]

(05-16-2022, 11:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Any chance Moss or whoever can move Sample out of that spot ?

1) they have to stay healthy


2) they have to be able to block better than he does...and he is a good blocker

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2022, 11:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Any chance Moss or whoever can move Sample out of that spot ?

Hard to think anyone on the roster really could.
Moss didn't play a snap last year.

Wilcox played 84 offensive snaps and put up 3 rec for 16 yards, but he's not someone I would think would be a serious contender for TE2.

This is where the Bengals had difficulty in the draft.
A lot of TEs went before the Bengals picked in Rd 4.

McBride, Otton, Dulcich, Ruckert, Kolar, Woods, Bellinger, Ferguson were all off the board.

Personally, I would have considered pulling the trigger on James Mitchell in Rd 5 instead of Tycen Anderson, but that was more purely based on my value on Mitchell and higher need over a 4th safety. Prior to going down with season-ending injury in his 2nd game last season, Mitchell put up 52 rec for 838 yards and 7 rec TDs across 22 games. He also added 7 rushing attempts for 9 yards but 5 rushing TDs for a total of 12 total TDs. He's able to play both a TE and H-B.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2022, 11:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's usually a mix of things.
Inability to pick up critical short distances in the run game allows teams to expect more passing.
Having a poor pass blocking OL allows for those defenders to get to the QB quicker.
Having a shorter field makes separation more difficult.
Deciding which specific plays to call also contributes to all of the above.

This is one area where I fell ZT and Callahan need to improve. I'd say every fan of every team feels this way. But it seems to me they get to predictable with their sets and play calls.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2022, 12:12 PM)Housh Wrote: I feel like if Moss was worth anything he’d a took Samples spot by now. Not like trying to crap on Sample either.
Dude just isn’t that good.

I agree

I'd be pretty surprised if Moss took off tearing it up this season.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2022, 12:12 PM)Housh Wrote: I feel like if Moss was worth anything he’d a took Samples spot by now. Not like trying to crap on Sample either.
Dude just isn’t that good.

He might be a somewhat better receiver than Sample, but IMO he went undrafted for a reason.
He's probably not near the level blocker Sample is.
He's not an overly athletic or fast TE.

I could see Bengals double-dipping at TE next year, as they seem to like taking multiple players at a position in a draft.
Get a TE early to be TE1 and then one later (maybe Rd 4-5) to be TE2.
They could also sign someone in FA and just draft one guy.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2022, 12:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is one area where I fell ZT and Callahan need to improve. I'd say every fan of every team feels this way. But it seems to me they get to predictable with their sets and play calls.

Someone would have to go back through the redzone plays to determine how much playcalling influenced the lack of production, but I don't recall a whole lot of times where I said, "Why would you run that play?!"

Feel like it was more around execution and not getting open fast enough before Burrow was under pressure.
With that said, it wasn't like the playcalling was always excellent to get guys open quick.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]