Which "health concerns" are worse?

[fredtoast]

2022..  Jackson Carmen.  Had back surgery less than 6 months before training camp.  Came to camp out of shape.  Took over starting RG game 3 due to Su'a-Filo injury.  Missed start due to illness game 6 but played 23 offensive snaps.  Taken off field on a cart in game 8. Played sparingly over next 7 games (65 total offense snaps).  Returned full time when Spain was injured in game 16.  Played 100% of snaps in season finale v Browns.  Played sparingly in the post season (35 offense snaps in Conf Champ)

2021..  Jonah Williams.  Played with a strap on his left shoulder his last two seasons at Alabama.  Suffered "injury" *wink* to left shoulder in first session of non-contact OTAs.  Missed entire rookie season.  Started first 7 games of second season before suffering neck injury.  Missed game 8 and 9. Started 3 more games before suffering season ending knee injury.


Please vote.  It is more than a right.  It is a duty.

And in the name of "Freedom" you can vote for more than one choice.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Jonah's obviously, but he's getting over his now.

It's one reason why i'm skeptical if Bama OL, I think Saban rides them to the ground.

But glad he's turning it around. Hopefully Carman will as well.

[Rotobeast]

C. Fred's mental health from a "gotcha" deficiency.
[emoji8]

Sent from my SM-S515DL using Tapatalk

[J24]

Backs are generally more concerning over shoulder injuries.

[XenoMorph]

I am more worried about carmans ability than availability.

[fredtoast]

(05-23-2022, 10:37 PM)J24 Wrote: Backs are generally more concerning over shoulder injuries.

One back injury that did not cause Carman to miss a single game should not be a bigger concern than 3 different injuries that caused Williams to miss 22 games (shoulder 16, neck 2, knee 4)

[PDub80]

(05-23-2022, 09:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2022..  Jackson Carmen.  Had back surgery less than 6 months before training camp.  Came to camp out of shape.  Took over starting RG game 3 due to Su'a-Filo injury.  Missed start due to illness game 6 but played 23 offensive snaps.  Taken off field on a cart in game 8. Played sparingly over next 7 games (65 total offense snaps).  Returned full time when Spain was injured in game 16.  Played 100% of snaps in season finale v Browns.  Played sparingly in the post season (35 offense snaps in Conf Champ)

2021..  Jonah Williams.  Played with a strap on his left shoulder his last two seasons at Alabama.  Suffered "injury" *wink* to left shoulder in first session of non-contact OTAs.  Missed entire rookie season.  Started first 7 games of second season before suffering neck injury.  Missed game 8 and 9. Started 3 more games before suffering season ending knee injury.


Please vote.  It is more than a right.  It is a duty.

And in the name of "Freedom" you can vote for more than one choice.

Even though I view the Bengals through a different lense than you, I do not think you eat boogers and so, in good conscience, I cannot vote for that.

I went Carman due to the nature of the injury and that he didn't seem to handle getting back in fighting shape very quickly/well.

- To offer a different perspective....

I don't love either player and would view recurring injuries like I would as if a girlfriend cheated on me.... IAs an unfortunate, but great excuse to go find a younger, sexier, more interesting one.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-24-2022, 10:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: One back injury that did not cause Carman to miss a single game should not be a bigger concern than 3 different injuries that caused Williams to miss 22 games (shoulder 16, neck 2, knee 4)

No, Carman didn’t miss any games, but played zero snaps in the two games after injuring his back versus the Jets. And zero snaps in the Super Bowl after aggravating his back. It is unclear if the back injury that prevented him from playing in the Super Bowl is related to the problem requiring surgery or if it was an unrelated, self-limited strain. So it remains to be seen if the back issues are a thing of the past.

Whereas Williams did miss games for three separate, unrelated injuries that seem like they are fully resolved and didn’t cause him to miss any time in 2021.

So Carman’s issue may not unresolved while William’s issues seem to be resolved. An unresolved issue is of greater concern than a completely resolved issue.

[fredtoast]

(05-24-2022, 11:46 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So Carman’s issue may not unresolved while William’s issues seem to be resolved. An unresolved issue is of greater concern than a completely resolved issue.

Sorry but I did not make myself clear. I was comparing Carman's concern from this year with Williams' concerns from last year.

In other words, when they both were unresolved.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-24-2022, 08:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: I am more worried about carmans ability than availability.

I'm basically in this camp as well. So I voted Carman.

[WeezyBengal]

(05-23-2022, 10:37 PM)J24 Wrote: Backs are generally more concerning over shoulder injuries.

I agree with this. Backs injuries freak me out. Shoulders you can generally come back from. Back injuries could be career ending. 

[CloeHokie]

This is comparing a top ten talent who graded out at the position he is playing highly. To a guy who is being moved to guard. Was a reach where we drafted him with better prospects on the board who played awful while healthy against the pass. I did like some of what I saw in the run game from him. But it's not apples to apples

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-24-2022, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry but I did not make myself clear. I was comparing Carman's concern from this year with Williams' concerns from last year.

In other words, when they both were unresolved.

Roughly, 25% of back pain patients who have surgery get better, 25% get worse, and 50% have no change. At 10 years after surgery there is virtually no difference between the surgical patients and the non-surgical patients.

Without knowing more details, I’d be more concerned about back surgery than a labrum.

[fredtoast]

(05-24-2022, 02:08 PM)CloeHokie Wrote:  who played awful while healthy against the pass. 

Carman played almost half of a season (462 snaps) and did not allow a single sack.

I did not feel like he played well ast year, but I think some people hate on him more than he deserves.  And I think a lot of it comes from people who did not like him from the draft.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-24-2022, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Carman played almost half of a season (462 snaps) and did not allow a single sack.

I did not feel like he played well ast year, but I think some people hate on him more than he deserves.  And I think a lot of it comes from people who did not like him from the draft.

If memory serves he played decent at LG in how many ever snaps. But he struggled quite a bit at RG.

[CloeHokie]

(05-24-2022, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Carman played almost half of a season (462 snaps) and did not allow a single sack.

I did not feel like he played well ast year, but I think some people hate on him more than he deserves.  And I think a lot of it comes from people who did not like him from the draft.

Mine comes from watching him along with his grades. He did not pass the eye test. And he graded out 45.9 in pass protection. That is awful. He was 67/82 possible OG. He showed up out of shape and has not had a good work ethic. He can change that. But that is why I "hate on him" 

[Emeritus]

At some point a veteran swing tackle will be necessary .
The cards are being dealt towards D'Ante Smith for that role. I don't question whether he can play but when its time for him to play is he ready. The organization went out and got veterans to start along the offensive line. They seem to feel great about the young backups. Me not so much.