Keyshawn Johnson: "Bengals are not at the top of the class in the AFC"

[fredtoast]

it is not the market size.  Buffalo and KC are both smaller markets.  And when the 9-7 Giants got hot and beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl I don't remember them getting a lot of love at the start of the next season.

And that is the way a lot of fans see the Bengals 2021 season.  They got hot and won a lot of games in the final seconds. Sure we beat the Chiefs twice, but in both games our defense blew a 4th quarter lead and we had to come back to win on the last play of the game.  Bengals fans see those wins as proof that we are a better team than the Chiefs, but most NFL fans see those as games that could have easily gone the other way.  Same with the win over the Titans where our defense blew a lead in the third quarter and we had to come back and win on the last play of the game.

Through 14 games we were 7-6 and struggling to stay in the playoff race.  15 other NFL teams had at least 7 wins.  Our Offense was 14th in yards gained and our defense was 17th in yards allowed.

Personally I think we have the talent to have one of the best offenses in the league and a top 10 defense.  But I can see why other NFL fans and analysts  want to see more consistent success from the Bengals before considering them to be serious Championship contenders.

[Big_Ern]

(05-25-2022, 06:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Keyshawn does say though that the Bengals are a good team.
He acknowledges that they tried to upgrade the OL and defense.
He said, "Every now and then you have a sneak-up type team that sneaks up on somebody like a Kansas City."

I actually understand his stance.
Bengals did make it to the Super Bowl, but that doesn't mean they're the best in the conference.
Chiefs have played in the past 4 AFC Championship Games.
Bills have made the playoffs the past 3 seasons.
Titans have also made the playoffs the past 3 seasons.
Prior to 2021, Bengals hadn't had a winning season for 5 straight seasons.

So all Keyshawn is saying is basically, "Get back to the playoffs again to prove you aren't a one-year wonder."

Chiefs have never won the conference while Burrow is healthy.  In fact, no other team has either 

[fredtoast]

(05-27-2022, 04:20 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Chiefs have never won the conference while Burrow is healthy.  In fact, no other team has either 

And if you base it on history there is only a 50/50 chance Burrow will be healthy this year.

[*rfaulk34*]

If Burrow Burrows this year like last, which he should, the Bengals have a winning record and win another playoff game or two, the perception will start to change.

One year of winning--even going to the SB--won't really change that with their history. Another year like last and people will start to take them seriously and view them like the Bills and Chiefs. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 04:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If Burrow Burrows this year like last, which he should, the Bengals have a winning record and win another playoff game or two, the perception will start to change.

One year of winning--even going to the SB--won't really change that with their history. Another year like last and people will start to take them seriously and view them like the Bills and Chiefs. 

Yep, this is the year to really gain some respect and prove we weren't a fluke.

Even if I find it a little laughable as we are even younger than last year with the FA's and Draft picks we brought in.

A fluke team doesn't win the way we did in clutch situations to sow up the Division and win in the postseason in close games.

The Bills are the team that scares me the most but they still have a lot to prove themselves.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-27-2022, 04:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, this is the year to really gain some respect and prove we weren't a fluke.

Even if I find it a little laughable as we are even younger than last year with the FA's and Draft picks we brought in.

A fluke team doesn't win the way we did in clutch situations to sow up the Division and win in the postseason in close games.

The Bills are the team that scares me the most but they still have a lot to prove themselves.

The Bills do have a claim of legitimacy though. 34 wins in the last 3 years, 2 division championships, 3 playoff wins and an AFCCG appearance. 

[fredtoast]

(05-27-2022, 04:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: A fluke team doesn't win the way we did in clutch situations to sow up the Division and win in the postseason in close games.

Actually beating a bunch of teams on the last play of the game is EXACTLY how "fluke" teams usually play.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 04:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The Bills do have a claim of legitimacy though. 34 wins in the last 3 years, 2 division championships, 3 playoff wins and an AFCCG appearance. 

True, they have been a damn good team. Still have that lack of a SB win though just like us.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-27-2022, 05:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, they have been a damn good team. Still have that lack of a SB win though just like us.

Can you imagine the 90-93 Bills ? Losing 4 Super Bowls in a row ?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually beating a bunch of teams on the last play of the game is EXACTLY how "fluke" teams usually play.

Eh, I don't know about that. It means you are clutch and have good coaching when you win the close ones.

Shows heart. That was the problem with the first two years under Zac, we lost all those close games and that was my concern 
with his coaching. One thing about the Chiefs under Andy Reid, they win a lot of close games which shows how good of a coach
Reid is IMO.

(05-27-2022, 05:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Can you imagine the 90-93 Bills ? Losing 4 Super Bowls in a row ?

That is why I have a lot of respect for Bills fans. That would be demoralizing beyond belief.

We have a lot in common lol

[*jason*]

(05-27-2022, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually beating a bunch of teams on the last play of the game is EXACTLY how "fluke" teams usually play.

When the words "a bunch" are used, can it be a fluke?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 07:39 PM)jason Wrote: When the words "a bunch" are used, can it be a fluke?

Nope, but when you are always losing "a bunch" of them it is a sign of bad coaching IMO.

Great coaches coach up the little things that put you over the top.

Zac is young and I was hoping it would finally start clicking for him in his 3rd make or break year and it did clearly.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

I can also understand that take as well. If I was looking at the Bengals from the outside in, I'd also want to see more to prove that we're ready to hang with the best. The NFL is all ifs and buts on any given play, but we could've lost any of those playoff games in all fairness. Even Vegas could've tied it late and forced OT, and who knows if we'd have come out to win that one considering our winless playoff run at that point.

To emphasise, I don't think we were lucky in the playoffs at all. We ascended in the big games last season and played our hearts out, which is great as you want to play your best in the big games. I largely think we did. Playoff games should be close, so not a shock that you could point to 1-2 plays being different and the result being different.

Kansas rightly get a lot of plaudits as they have been very good for a few years now. Buffalo for 2-3 years have looked a very strong team who are on the cusp of being in the big game but just need to jump the final hurdle. We've had one trailblazing year, where it looks like we might finally have a great team. But it is currently just the one year, and I think it's fair to point that out. It's up to the team to perform this year and back up what we did last year.

[fredtoast]

(05-27-2022, 08:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great coaches coach up the little things that put you over the top.

Seriously?

Good thing Zac's coaching was why we converted 3rd and 27.  That means we will be able to do it every time.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-28-2022, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seriously?

Good thing Zac's coaching was why we converted 3rd and 27.  That means we will be able to do it every time.

Works both ways. All your criticism of Taylor in his first 2 seasons following that opinion means all the missed blocks, dropped passes, and etc. really means he has zero plausibility in only winning 6 games his first two years. Love it

[fredtoast]

(05-28-2022, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Works both ways. All your criticism of Taylor in his first 2 seasons following that opinion means all the missed blocks, dropped passes, and etc. really means he has zero plausibility in only winning 6 games his first two years. Love it

No it does not work both ways because I always admitted that Zac did not have the talent to win due to injuries.  That is why I always argued not to fire him after last year.


Any person who has watched the NFL and claims that games won on a single play is always the result of coaching just does not know what he is talkng about.

[Big_Ern]

(05-27-2022, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if you base it on history there is only a 50/50 chance Burrow will be healthy this year.

So 50/50 chance of sb appearance?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-28-2022, 08:08 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I can also understand that take as well. If I was looking at the Bengals from the outside in, I'd also want to see more to prove that we're ready to hang with the best. The NFL is all ifs and buts on any given play, but we could've lost any of those playoff games in all fairness. Even Vegas could've tied it late and forced OT, and who knows if we'd have come out to win that one considering our winless playoff run at that point.

To emphasise, I don't think we were lucky in the playoffs at all. We ascended in the big games last season and played our hearts out, which is great as you want to play your best in the big games. I largely think we did. Playoff games should be close, so not a shock that you could point to 1-2 plays being different and the result being different.

Kansas rightly get a lot of plaudits as they have been very good for a few years now. Buffalo for 2-3 years have looked a very strong team who are on the cusp of being in the big game but just need to jump the final hurdle. We've had one trailblazing year, where it looks like we might finally have a great team. But it is currently just the one year, and I think it's fair to point that out. It's up to the team to perform this year and back up what we did last year.

Nice post. That is what I loved seeing from our team starting with the KC game where we needed to win it. Mad heart.

If we keep this with Burrow and company we will be tough for a long time. Really looking forward to our Bills game this 
year and the Bucs game. I think the Bills are the best team besides us in the AFC right now and Burrow vs Brady should 
be a great game with a ton of hype leading up to it if both teams are good.

(05-28-2022, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seriously?

Good thing Zac's coaching was why we converted 3rd and 27.  That means we will be able to do it every time.

Seriously? You disagree that good coaches coach up the little things that help win games?

[fredtoast]

(05-28-2022, 12:44 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: So 50/50 chance of sb appearance?

Based on history so far,

[fredtoast]

(05-28-2022, 05:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Seriously? You disagree that good coaches coach up the little things that help win games?

You disagree that luck never plays a part?

Then how do you explain when even the best coaches in the league lose close games?

Coaching is important.  Without good coaching the team is not even in a position to win on a single play.  But when you win a game due to converting a third-and-27 I think it is pretty arrogant to claim that it was all because of "coaching".