Paying the O-line. What we did back in '05.

[XenoMorph]

(11-15-2015, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: After the '04 season the Bengals felt that they had one of the better offensive lines in the league, but they were worried about being able to afford all of them. None of them were under contract for more than two more seasons. They used a 4th round pick on a Center (Ghiaciuc) and then re-signed OC Rich Braham, but only for 2 years.

After the '05 season they drafted Whitworth in the 2nd round then gave contract extensions to RT Willie Anderson, RG Bobbie Williams, and LT Levi Jones. I believe that Jones and Anderson were the highest paid tackle duo in the league, and Bobbie was well paid also.

After the '06 season they let Eric Steinbach leave in free agency. I think they felt the same way about Steinbach that i did, he was a very good player, but not worth the money Cleveland gave him. His contract was either the highest or second highest for an OG at that time. Plus, by then Whitworth had a season under his belt and was ready to step in and start at LG.

That is kind of what I expect the Bengals to do this time. We like all of our starters on the O-line, but we can't give them all the type of contracts they could get on the free agent market. We have already given Whit a little more time just like we did with Braham. Obviously the plan is for one of our top two picks last year will be ready to step in when Whit leaves.

If the coaches like what they see in Bodine, then we might pay both Smith and Zeitler. Ten years ago the Bengals stepped up and paid three of our O-lineman top money in addition to the short deal they gave Braham. We already gave Boling his sweet deal, so that just leaves Zeitler and Smith. And if we had to spread it out we could pay Dre this off-season, and wait until after the '16 season to re-sign Zeitler.

But I am guessing we let Dre walk and give Zeitler a long term deal. I see either Cedric or Jake starting at RT next year, and then both starting in '17 when Whit's contract is up. And if we take another O-lineman high in our next draft he would still have a year ton develop before competing for a starting spot.

What?

Whitworth signed 1 more year probly his last
Boiling signed 3 more years
Bodine im not sure is worth extending
Zeither has his option year next season no reason to rush a contract
Smith walks in Free agency as we have 2 draft picks that will have to wait 3 years before getting a contract.

Not sure where your handing all this money out to this season?

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-15-2015, 11:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: I thought we worked Boling at C in camp and such this offseason. either way I can't see them just putting up with the subpar play another season. We've been VERY lucky so far that no one we have played has been able to fully exploit his issues. Pittsburgh did partially and the effects of having your Center beat play after play really mess up an offense.

I would like to see them take the best center in the draft next year.  He would be on a rookie contract for 4-5 years, giving the team a lot of flexibility to pay the other linemen.  I don't see Smith being on the roster next year.  I think either Ogbuehi or Fisher will move into that spot, with the other being the primary backup.  Smith's money can then be used elsewhere as well.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-15-2015, 11:48 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Fair point - but I doubt it'll be a high pick. The Bengals are fairly predictable with their draft strategy in the upper rounds - and Bodine was a fourth rounder himself. To me you're looking at a guy picked at about a similar spot. They could be look for a WR or (gasp!) a corner late in the first round. And even then, you're talking about replacing a a non-injured two-year starter who has chemistry with the QB and his teammates with a rookie. Now, if Hue's gone and the offense completely changes, maybe? 

I guess I just want the insanity to end with the using crap picks to replace bad players and wonder why we keep getting bad players at those spots. 
I'm just sick of seeing the center kill a handful of plays every game, he's capable of subverting the whole offense at times. 
Eventually that has to change right? I mean, I guess we are lucky Dalton (and Hue) get rid of the ball so damn fast. 

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2015, 03:13 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I guess I just want the insanity to end with the using crap picks to replace bad players and wonder why we keep getting bad players at those spots. 
I'm just sick of seeing the center kill a handful of plays every game, he's capable of subverting the whole offense at times. 
Eventually that has to change right? I mean, I guess we are lucky Dalton (and Hue) get rid of the ball so damn fast. 

The Bengals have not invested much in a Center in a long time.  Braham was a free agent that had been curt by another team.  Ghiacuic was a 4th rounder.  Cooke was an undrafted free agent.  Luigs was a 4th rounder.  And now Bodine is a fourth rounder.  So even if the are looking for a replacement in this years draft I would not expect anything before the third or fourth round.

However it was not that long ago that the Bengals had never used a first round pick on an OG.  So I guess anyhting is possible. 

And it is even possible that the Bengal coaches value Bodine's production more they you do.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-16-2015, 03:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals have not invested much in a Center in a long time.  Braham was a free agent that had been curt by another team.  Ghiacuic was a 4th rounder.  Cooke was an undrafted free agent.  Luigs was a 4th rounder.  And now Bodine is a fourth rounder.  So even if the are looking for a replacement in this years draft I would not expect anything before the third or fourth round.

However it was not that long ago that the Bengals had never used a first round pick on an OG.  So I guess anyhting is possible. 

And it is even possible that the Bengal coaches value Bodine's production more they you do.

and my retort would be...what production? 
being healthy and playing in and of itself is not "production"
There has to be a beneficial quality to the play. He hasn't brought it. 

Yes that seems to be where they value the center position....and it's been awful since Braham, outside of 2 years of quality play from Cook. If they keep using the same method, they shouldn't expect a better result outside of random chance. Or, they could actually improve the position and at least attempt to get a top talent at the spot. Even if that doesnt work, it's better than not trying and staying with terrible results. 

[Bengal Dude]

(11-16-2015, 11:59 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: What?

Whitworth signed 1 more year probly his last
Boiling signed 3 more years
Bodine im not sure is worth extending
Zeither has his option year next season no reason to rush a contract
Smith walks in Free agency as we have 2 draft picks that will have to wait 3 years before getting a contract.

Not sure where your handing all this money out to this season?

I'm not sure why you're against trying to extend Zeitler after this season. Yes, he's signed for 2016, but he'll count towards $8 million of the cap. If we extend him soon, that number will most likely go down. Besides, do you want to risk him playing a great season and then not being able to afford him? I believe the Bengals tried to extend him this season, but it never got done. I would love to get a deal done with Zeitler next year, probably during camp.

[XenoMorph]

(11-16-2015, 06:00 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'm not sure why you're against trying to extend Zeitler after this season. Yes, he's signed for 2016, but he'll count towards $8 million of the cap. If we extend him soon, that number will most likely go down. Besides, do you want to risk him playing a great season and then not being able to afford him? I believe the Bengals tried to extend him this season, but it never got done. I would love to get a deal done with Zeitler next year, probably during camp.

Im not against signing Zeitler long term... Im just for keeping other pieces whos contracts are up first and not repeating the mistake we made in 05. when we paid the wrong 2 players.

It would be great to get him on a long term deal sure. But why pay andre when we just drafted 2 OT's in the first 2 rounds at that.. one of them needs to be able to step in and play year 2.

I would probly offer Z a similar deal to what Boiling got. But ILOKA, Jones, Jones, Sanu, and others are all up before someone still under contract imo. unless it saves us money as we can void his 5th year option with a new deal in place. (Dre K is in the same boat with Big Z)

[Shake n Blake]

(11-15-2015, 05:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We may just be able to sign both Zeitler to a full contract, and get Smith for a couple more years at a team friendly rate.  Smith has been chronically injured/dinged up, for the duration of his NFL career.  Can't really see many teams giving him that "Top tier" free agent contract.

I agree that Andre won't get a top tier contract on the open market, but I could see the Bengals just cutting ties ala Gresh. If we keep one of the two tackles, I'd think it'd be Whit. He's still playing at a high level and as a leader he's miles ahead of Andre.

I get that Andre is much younger, but he also can't stay healthy. I'd let Ogbuehi take over RT until Whit is ready to hang it up. Fisher can continue to be the super sub.

[Bengal Dude]

(11-16-2015, 06:34 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Im not against signing Zeitler long term...  Im just for keeping other pieces whos contracts are up first and not repeating the mistake we made in 05.  when we paid the wrong 2 players.

It would be great to get him on a long term deal sure.  But why pay andre when we just drafted 2 OT's in the first 2 rounds at that.. one of them needs to be able to step in and play year 2.

I would probly offer Z a similar deal to what Boiling got.   But ILOKA, Jones, Jones, Sanu, and others are all up before someone still under contract imo. unless it saves us money as we can void his 5th year option with a new deal in place.  (Dre K is in the same boat with Big Z)

What 2 mistakes did we make in 05?

I don't know why you're bringing.up Andre since most people have concluded that we're most likely moving on from him after this season.  Cedric will most likely play RT next season and move over to LT in 2017. 

Iloka will most likely get tagged if we don't re-sign him before the deadline. Pacman isn't going to command a lot of money since he's approaching the age when DBs tend to fall off. I believe we'll sign Marvin Jones or Sanu, not both. When it comes to extensions during camp, Zeitler and Eifert have to take priority. At this point, Dre isn't going to be hard to extend because he hasn't done much to earn a big pay day.