What Vegas and the National Media is not talking about

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-24-2022, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not claiming any single game was as big of a fluke as the way we blew games at the end of '06 or lost to the Broncos opening day '09.  But when you look at the whole string it starts to look like fate was smiling on us.

When we beat the Chiefs on the final play in the regular season we were able to keep the final drive alive by converting a 3rd-and-27 and the Chiefs getting called for defensive penalties on back-to-back 4th down stops.

The Raiders were inside our 10 yard line when they turned the ball over on the final play.

We needed an interception on a tipped pass to beat the Titans on the last play of the game.

This kind of stuff happens all the time Fred. 

A lot of people throw the old lost 7 games this season by 6 points or less out there. Trying to make a case that this team or that is close, coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff.

Fact is a bunch of NFL games are close, it's the norm. The W is all that matters, not how or why.

But I'm not arguing this anymore.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-24-2022, 08:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This kind of stuff happens all the time Fred. 

A lot of people throw the old lost 7 games this season by 6 points or less out there. Trying to make a case that this team or that is close, coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff.

Fact is a bunch of NFL games are close, it's the norm. The W is all that matters, not how or why.

But I'm not arguing this anymore.

NFL games are close? Seems Jimmy Garrapolo threw an interception with a minute to go to lose to LA. I seem to recall KC tying the Bills in regulation on a field goal. Those flukes lol.

[Bengalholic]

(08-24-2022, 08:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This kind of stuff happens all the time Fred. 

A lot of people throw the old lost 7 games this season by 6 points or less out there. Trying to make a case that this team or that is close, coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff.

Fact is a bunch of NFL games are close, it's the norm. The W is all that matters, not how or why.

But I'm not arguing this anymore.

Yeah, they won those games because they stepped up big when the game was on the line...making critical plays at critical moments. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-24-2022, 09:05 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: NFL games are close? Seems Jimmy Garrapolo threw an interception with a minute to go to lose to LA. I seem to recall KC tying the Bills in regulation on a field goal. Those flukes lol.

Yup

I'm quite sure if someone had the time and energy and cared enough to do all the research (I don't). You could come up with a dozen teams that "fluked" their way deep into the playoffs/SB, by Fred's definition.

I guess when the media shows the stats on QB's and all their game winning 4th qtr. drives they're all flukes ? When they show a defense having a goaline stand to win a game near the end it's chalked up as a fluke ?

[Bengalfan4life27c]

My definition of a fluke is a team benefiting from a garbage call like the Jets game last season.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-24-2022, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup

I'm quite sure if someone had the time and energy and cared enough to do all the research (I don't). You could come up with a dozen teams that "fluked" their way deep into the playoffs/SB, by Fred's definition.

I guess when the media shows the stats on QB's and all their game winning 4th qtr. drives they're all flukes ? When they show a defense having a goaline stand to win a game near the end it's chalked up as a fluke ?

It’s going to be a fun year and with the Bengals and Zac and his coordinators doing so well it’s going to be a fluke if Fred Mertz even shows up around here.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Take it easy on Fred guys I have never seen him in such a hole as this LMAO!!!

[fredtoast]

(08-24-2022, 08:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This kind of stuff happens all the time Fred. 

(08-24-2022, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm quite sure if someone had the time and energy and cared enough to do all the research (I don't). You could come up with a dozen teams that "fluked" their way deep into the playoffs/SB, by Fred's definition.

No this does not happen all the time.  Anyone who watches football on a regular basis knows better.

It is not that uncommon for a game to be close in score but many times the winning team has the ball at the end of the game or else the losing team is not close to scoring position.  What I am talking about are games that are literally decided on the last play of the game.  Those games are not that common.  Most two teams might have one or two over the course of a season.  

But the last 4 wins by the Bengals in '21, the 4 wins that got them to the Super Bowl were ALL decided on the last play of the game.

-Chiefs... FG on last play of game after a drive that featured a 3rd-and-27 conversion and two defensive penalties that wiped out 4th down stops.
-Raiders.... stopped on Bengals 4 yard line with 10 seconds left.
-Titans.... FG on last play of game set up by an interception on a tipped pass.
-Chiefs.... FG on last play of game set up by interception on tipped pass.


So if say this type of stuff happens all the time then just give me an example.

Not just one game but the last 4 wins in a row that got a team to the Super Bowl.

And not just games that were close in score, but games that were decided on the last play.

Show me.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-25-2022, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No this does not happen all the time.  Anyone who watches football on a regular basis knows better.

It is not that uncommon for a game to be close in score but many times the winning team has the ball at the end of the game or else the losing team is not close to scoring position.  What I am talking about are games that are literally decided on the last play of the game.  Those games are not that common.  Most two teams might have one or two over the course of a season.  

But the last 4 wins by the Bengals in '21, the 4 wins that got them to the Super Bowl were ALL decided on the last play of the game.

-Chiefs... FG on last play of game after a drive that featured a 3rd-and-27 conversion and two defensive penalties that wiped out 4th down stops.
-Raiders.... stopped on Bengals 4 yard line with 10 seconds left.
-Titans.... FG on last play of game set up by an interception on a tipped pass.
-Chiefs.... FG on last play of game set up by interception on tipped pass.


So if say this type of stuff happens all the time then just give me an example.

Not just one game but the last 4 wins in a row that got a team to the Super Bowl.

And not just games that were close in score, but games that were decided on the last play.

Show me.

Fred’s narrative way off as standard.

In the AFC Championship it was KC who was behind and the defense rose to the occasion and held them to a regulation ending tying field goal. Then got an interception and drove to a field goal in OT

Against the Raiders we held the 26-19 lead and came up with the last second INT to ice the game. That’s not a fluke. We led almost the entire game.

The Titans game was close the whole game. The lead changed hands but the game was tied when we got the last minute interception. How is that any different than Jimmy Garrapolo throwing a late pick to lose to LA? It’s not

In the regular season game with KC we took the lead in the fourth and it was the Bengals defense that held KC to a tying field goal. Then we went on a consuming 6 minute drive to go win the game and keep the ball out of Patrick Mahomes hands as time expired.

Such a false narrative by Fred

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2022, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No this does not happen all the time.  Anyone who watches football on a regular basis knows better.

It is not that uncommon for a game to be close in score but many times the winning team has the ball at the end of the game or else the losing team is not close to scoring position.  What I am talking about are games that are literally decided on the last play of the game.  Those games are not that common.  Most two teams might have one or two over the course of a season.  

But the last 4 wins by the Bengals in '21, the 4 wins that got them to the Super Bowl were ALL decided on the last play of the game.

-Chiefs... FG on last play of game after a drive that featured a 3rd-and-27 conversion and two defensive penalties that wiped out 4th down stops.
-Raiders.... stopped on Bengals 4 yard line with 10 seconds left.
-Titans.... FG on last play of game set up by an interception on a tipped pass.
-Chiefs.... FG on last play of game set up by interception on tipped pass.


So if say this type of stuff happens all the time then just give me an example.

Not just one game but the last 4 wins in a row that got a team to the Super Bowl.

And not just games that were close in score, but games that were decided on the last play.

Show me.

First off, that first Chiefs game, we held the ball for the last 6 minutes of the game.

More importantly, so your only definition that our playoff/Super Bowl run was flukey was because 4 games were decided on last plays? So, our defense was just lucky to get those INTs? McPherson was just lucky to make those FGs? GTFOH None of those plays were the result of luck. They were the result of skills, scheme, etc. 

I usually agree with you in Jungle Noise, fred, but the only way one can say we were lucky/a fluke is due to our health and even then some have pointed out that we weren't that unusally healthy during the playoffs last year.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-23-2022, 06:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ahhh, now I understand why "after 13 games" was so important to you. It's because he was the only time we were out of the playoffs. After 10 games we were in the playoffs, after 11 games we were in the playoffs, after 12 games we were in the playoffs, after 14 games we were in the playoffs and stayed there.

So Fred logic = After 13 games we were tie-breakers out of the playoffs and it was the only time , so it's a fluke we made the playoffs

...and you wonder why folks think you're trolling. 

Wherever there is a stat to be selectively manipulated, whenever there's a trivial detail being exploited, you know who is there..  

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-25-2022, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wherever there is a stat to be selectively manipulated, whenever there's a trivial detail being exploited, you know who is there..  

This entire "debate" is really, really, really dumb.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2022, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  GTFOH None of those plays were the result of luck. They were the result of skills, scheme, etc. 

Good to know we can now have the skill and coaching to convert a 3rd and 27 anytime we want to.

I look forward to us taking advantage of that a lot this year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-25-2022, 12:20 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Fred’s narrative way off as standard.

In the AFC Championship it was KC who was behind and the defense rose to the occasion and held them to a regulation ending tying field goal. Then got an interception and drove to a field goal in OT

Against the Raiders we held the 26-19 lead and came up with the last second INT to ice the game. That’s not a fluke. We led almost the entire game.

The Titans game was close the whole game. The lead changed hands but the game was tied when we got the last minute interception. How is that any different than Jimmy Garrapolo throwing a late pick to lose to LA? It’s not

In the regular season game with KC we took the lead in the fourth and it was the Bengals defense that held KC to a tying field goal. Then we went on a consuming 6 minute drive to go win the game and keep the ball out of Patrick Mahomes hands as time expired.

Such a false narrative by Fred

This.

(08-25-2022, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: First off, that first Chiefs game, we held the ball for the last 6 minutes of the game.

More importantly, so your only definition that our playoff/Super Bowl run was flukey was because 4 games were decided on last plays? So, our defense was just lucky to get those INTs? McPherson was just lucky to make those FGs? GTFOH None of those plays were the result of luck. They were the result of skills, scheme, etc. 

I usually agree with you in Jungle Noise, fred, but the only way one can say we were lucky/a fluke is due to our health and even then some have pointed out that we weren't that unusally healthy during the playoffs last year.

And this. Don't forget instincts, Pratt, Wilson, Hilton, Bates, Bell making timely interceptions in the clutch...

(08-25-2022, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wherever there is a stat to be selectively manipulated, whenever there's a trivial detail being exploited, you know who is there..  

No doubt.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2022, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wherever there is a stat to be selectively manipulated, whenever there's a trivial detail being exploited, you know who is there..  

i guess you missed the post where I pointed out that everyone else in this thread is also talking about how we finished 6-2.

But somehow when I do the exact same thing as everyone else (draw a line after week 14) I am being "selectively manipulative" while everyone else is just proving how awesome the Bengals were (because the first 13 games were just practice to get things right).

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2022, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good to know we can now have the skill and coaching to convert a 3rd and 27 anytime we want to.

I look forward to us taking advantage of that a lot this year.

How was it lucky that we converted a 3rd and 27? I didn't realize that Burrow and the WR on that play (Boyd, right?) don't have the skills necessary to convert a 3rd and 27. 

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2022, 02:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: How was it lucky that we converted a 3rd and 27? I didn't realize that Burrow and the WR on that play (Boyd, right?) don't have the skills necessary to convert a 3rd and 27. 

If there is no luck involved then we will be seeing them do it all the time this year, right?

All I said was that I look forward to seeing that this year.  Don't you?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2022, 02:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: i guess you missed the post where I pointed out that everyone else in this thread is also talking about how we finished 6-2.

I know it's not just you, fred, but can we please get this right?


We finished the season 5-2 not 6-2.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2022, 02:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I know it's not just you, fred, but can we please get this right?


We finished the season 5-2 not 6-2.

Den......W
Bal.......W
KC.......W
Cle.......L
LV........W
Ten......W
KC.......W
LA........L


What am I missing here?  Which one of those 6 wins does not count?

[Soonerpeace]

(08-25-2022, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If there is no luck involved then we will be seeing them do it all the time this year, right?

All I said was that I look forward to seeing that this year.  Don't you?

What we will be seeing is a well coached, prepared, and one of the most talented teams win a lot of games