Cut to the chase - Zac not playing starters in preseason was a big cause of the loss

[CJD]

(09-12-2022, 09:25 AM)Wyche Wrote: Some are.....in fact in another thread, folks were blaming everyone in Cincinnati but Joe, lol. 

I just like pointing out the absurdity of it all. We've had QBs play games that bad and get torn to shreds over it. Thread after thread about them.....yet there's only one here, and it's mainly about the elite debate. But we have multiple threads about who else we can blame, lol. It's just kinda funny to me.

I have not seen a single person on this forum say "Burrow played well, actually." He just isn't being torn to shreds because, I think, when a QB wins you your first playoff game in over 30 years, you give them a little more grace when they have a bad game. 

As far as blaming everyone but Joe, I think what people are saying is that, even with how poorly Joe played, we still could have (and should have) won had it not been for this person or that person doing this or that.

This isn't absolving Joe of blame so much as it is taking his poor performance as a given and going from there. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-12-2022, 08:51 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Bro, lol, none of it matters if you can kick an extra point or a field goal.

Burrow completely farmed it and he also completely put us in a position to win as did the rest of the team.

Bottom line is the Bengals came out and did what they do best.  Unprepared, unfocused, laid an egg at home in a big division game.   Rinse, lather, repeat.  Minus last season................sorta.      Bears, Jets.

I think there's some truth there.

The old saying was they read to many newspaper articles and I believe it applies here. You can't just coast through any NFL game because on paper you're better.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-12-2022, 09:50 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I know right ?

I'm just speculating but if I had to guess it's more than just on field performance. Bad attitude ? Poor work ethic ? Won't conform to coaching suggestions ? I dunno

I think bad technique is in that list somewhere.

And, maybe Pollack isn't a good coach. Who does he actually make better?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-12-2022, 09:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think bad technique is in that list somewhere.

And, maybe Pollack isn't a good coach. Who does he actually make better?

Probably

I'm willing to give them a pass on the 1st game. But one eyebrow is up on this Oline.

[fredtoast]

(09-12-2022, 12:07 AM)Wyche Wrote: 17 of 23 points off turnovers, 7 of which came off a pick six. It's REALLY simple why we lost this game, but no one wants to admit it. It's downright comical watching the mental gymnastics involved to avoid mentioning it.

Not as comical as watching the some people who give credit for all our wins to Zac's magic fairy dust and "winning mentality" but whne he makes a huge mistake that obviously gave the Steelers a chance to win the game then he has zero blame for the loss.

[CJD]

(09-12-2022, 09:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think bad technique is in that list somewhere.

And, maybe Pollack isn't a good coach. Who does he actually make better?

I'm about ready to move on from Pollack if this game is representative of this whole season. He has been unable to develop any players we draft and now, when given legitimately good players at C, RG, RT and, arguably, LT, they still struggle mightily to protect Joe.

At some point, you need to start looking towards coaching when a unit keeps failing no matter who you play in that unit, and I am approaching that point with Pollack.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-12-2022, 08:43 AM)Nepa Wrote: I can't wait to see Volson's PFF grades. Oh, maybe I can wait. Maybe I'll become blind looking at them. 

I will be curious to see them as well. Also Joe goodberrys Bengals on the brain (assuming he's gone breakdown the line play). But this is the position I was worried about with Volson. If he struggled in the opener which I'd say it looks as though he did. What's the play? Just hope he learns and improves? We need to protect Joe. It's wins and loses but we have to limit his hits. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 10:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not as comical as watching the some people who give credit for all our wins to Zac's magic fairy dust and "winning mentality" but whne he makes a huge mistake that obviously gave the Steelers a chance to win the game then he has zero blame for the loss.

Show me where I put zero blame. Go use your fancy quote search and find where I actually put a little blame on him for a couple of things. Go on, you can do it.....but we know you won't because you're wrong as usual.

Let me ask you a question Freddie, if that was Andy Dalton, would there be four threads about Marvin and none about Andy? Deep down, you know the answer to that question......

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 09:51 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I have not seen a single person on this forum say "Burrow played well, actually." He just isn't being torn to shreds because, I think, when a QB wins you your first playoff game in over 30 years, you give them a little more grace when they have a bad game. 

As far as blaming everyone but Joe, I think what people are saying is that, even with how poorly Joe played, we still could have (and should have) won had it not been for this person or that person doing this or that.

This isn't absolving Joe of blame so much as it is taking his poor performance as a given and going from there. 

Regarding objective and rational posters, I agree jdawg. But there are some out there......and that's who I'm directing it at. 

As for the first playoff game in thirty years, people are ripping the coaching staff that won our first playoff game in thirty years though.....lol. See the hypocrisy?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 09:26 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Oh I agree.  I think the defense did a fantastic job with what they were asked to do.

I think they should've gotten more pressure, but they were put in some tough spots.

(09-12-2022, 09:36 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Just don't lump me into this.  He probably just had his worst game EVER at ANY level.  He just sucked a$$.

BUT,   ,if we can kick an extra point or a field goal we still win.   Lots of fail today.

LoL, I'm not bro..... it's just a few, but I don't wanna get on the wrong side of the mods.

Last part is true too.....and Zac should've challenged the Chase TD. Couple of questionable playcalls too. 

(09-12-2022, 09:50 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I know right ?

I'm just speculating but if I had to guess it's more than just on field performance. Bad attitude ? Poor work ethic ? Won't conform to coaching suggestions ? I dunno

Gotta be something there man. If he can't beat out what we saw yesterday, then he's really bad, lol.

[higgy100]

(09-11-2022, 11:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: I do think that when you get behind Burrow's picks and the blocking issues and the other miscues a big culprit sure looks like it is Zac Taylor not playing his offensive starters at all in live preseason action (as in full speed football). In particular an OL with four new starters NEEDED the full speed reps to get into some kind of sync with each other and Burrow needed them to get into some kind of internal rhythm.

Yes the appendectomy caused Burrow to miss a lot of practices but really both he and the entire offense should have played in Preseason Game 3 for at least a half to get the gelling process started and get some kind of rhythm established. Had we done that I suspect we would not have turned the ball over 4 times, the line would have been in a bit better sync and we would have won.

I'm not sure playing your starting OL (hell, 2 of them were hurt/getting over injury) for 2-3 possessions total in 3 preseason games had anything to do with the way they played. Look, it takes time for any OL to get starting a new season let alone 4 new starters ESPECIALLY going against a very very good D and probably the best DL in the NFL.

You can prep all you want but when bullets are firing from the AK the way the Steelers came out it's tough and becomes damn near impossible when your QB gives the damn ball away 4 times 30 minutes. Truth of the matter is the OL adjusted and played great football for 25-30 minutes in the 2nd half and you miss an extra point and chip shot FG due to multiple reasons.

Had they won this game everyone in the NFL would be talking about a tremendous comeback win. This team takes far more positive away from this game going forward.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 11:15 AM)higgy100 Wrote: I'm not sure playing your starting OL (hell, 2 of them were hurt/getting over injury) for 2-3 possessions total in 3 preseason games had anything to do with the way they played. Look, it takes time for any OL to get starting a new season let alone 4 new starters ESPECIALLY going against a very very good D and probably the best DL in the NFL.

You can prep all you want but when bullets are firing from the AK the way the Steelers came out it's tough and becomes damn near impossible when your QB gives the damn ball away 4 times 30 minutes. Truth of the matter is the OL adjusted and played great football for 25-30 minutes in the 2nd half and you miss an extra point and chip shot FG due to multiple reasons.

Had they won this game everyone in the NFL would be talking about a tremendous comeback win. This team takes far more positive away from this game going forward.

Good points. That's a fair take.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I've pretty much accepted Zac Taylor is who he is by this point. Good locker room HC, terrible game manager, terrible playcaller. If he hasn't gotten good by year 4, he never will.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 09:51 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I have not seen a single person on this forum say "Burrow played well, actually." He just isn't being torn to shreds because, I think, when a QB wins you your first playoff game in over 30 years, you give them a little more grace when they have a bad game. 

As far as blaming everyone but Joe, I think what people are saying is that, even with how poorly Joe played, we still could have (and should have) won had it not been for this person or that person doing this or that.

This isn't absolving Joe of blame so much as it is taking his poor performance as a given and going from there. 

I give you exhibit A.....


http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Headline-on-ESPN-Coaching-decisions-doom-Bengals?pid=1244512#pid1244512

Quote:Well Zac deserves ALL of the blame IMO.  He was the one who chose NOT to challenge a sure TD, and Im guessing he pretty much OK's a qB draw on 1st and goal from the 1 inch line.  Zac DEF should take the blame for this loss because it was his decision that absolutely took 6 points off the board and cost Cincy the game. Everything else being talked about comes down to player performance, which is never perfect. That decision to not call the challenge was the only and most costly decision that didn't require some sort of player performance or lack thereof, all it took was a simple, unforced action on Taylor....and he muffed it up. It's like having the winning lottery numbers in front of you but choosing not to use them as compared to not having them and having them randomly chosen for you. Every play is a gamble. Choosing something right there in front of you isn't.

[CJD]

(09-12-2022, 11:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: Regarding objective and rational posters, I agree jdawg. But there are some out there......and that's who I'm directing it at. 

As for the first playoff game in thirty years, people are ripping the coaching staff that won our first playoff game in thirty years though.....lol. See the hypocrisy?

Yea but you gotta understand that public perception is generally "Joe Burrow is elite, the coaching staff is holding him back." Zac was one of the worst head coaches in the NFL before Burrow was drafted (and while he was injured), so it's not a stretch to view it this way. Having a rookie throw the most times in the NFL up to his injury behind a terrible Oline reinforced that perception of incompetence as well.

Zac doesn't help that perception when he makes blatantly bad decisions like not challenging certain plays or not running the clock down enough.
Burrow, on the other hand, was PFF's top graded QB last year, led the league in completion percentage and had a few more major accolades, like most deep touchdown passes etc.

If coaches had a PFF grade, I wouldn't be surprised if Zac was at or near near the bottom of the league. I understand why people are quicker to give Burrow grace than the coaching staff.
 

[Garrus]

I wonder if this game will change how we approach preseason next year. I doubt it changes much, if at all.

[*Go Cards*]

Just believe there is plenty of blame to go around and yes Burrow is at the spoke of this blame wheel and rightfully so.

Yet maybe he is getting somewhat of a pass more than Dalton and Carson per earning that already with playoff success. Plus people knowing he was just recently in hospital for a week and then had surgery afterwards that prevented him from doing football activities for a good while during an important time of the year.
Then the rude announcement on the Bengals first offensive play of the game that your O-line is not going to protect you today no matter the changes.

Have a hard time giving anybody credit yesterday except for the defense who was put in bad situation after bad situation yet played very solid. Would say great but thought the DB's played a little soft in coverage, Yet all in all the defense definitely was not a problem and my hats off to them.

Although can't say that for the Joe Burrow, the O-line, ST's, Mike Thomas, Huber, or the coaching staff. They all must have been reading their press clippings all off season while still celebrating and need to wake up quickly or the Bengals may find themselves in a deep hole,

Anyway not giving up hope and still like this teams chances and Hurst looked really good as a receiver. Yet he may just be a little light in the trunk to ever be a great blocker, but like him catching the ball a lot.

Personally would consider using Hurst as WR when injuries happen instead of Thomas.

[Soonerpeace]

The main reason we lost the game was definitely the 5 turnovers. Are there peripheral things? Of course.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(09-12-2022, 12:22 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The main reason we lost the game was definitely the 5 turnovers. Are there peripheral things? Of course.

No 60 (or 70) minute game truly relies on one singular play (or even a handful), it's all cumulative. Chicken and the egg scenario. Nobody cares about the failed long snapping if we're 24-10 up or down by that point. We care a bit less about the picks if we kick the xp.

To me the basic errors on the special teams plays were worse as they should be easier to get right, but no doubt the QB plays a huge part in the loss. 'Turnover battle is the major contributing factor to the loss'.... 'we still had a chance to win despite the turnovers so we had overcome them'... both are right, and it doesn't make the other one wrong. People are just arguing over which shade of shit to stand behind.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2022, 12:01 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea but you gotta understand that public perception is generally "Joe Burrow is elite, the coaching staff is holding him back." Zac was one of the worst head coaches in the NFL before Burrow was drafted (and while he was injured), so it's not a stretch to view it this way. Having a rookie throw the most times in the NFL up to his injury behind a terrible Oline reinforced that perception of incompetence as well.

Zac doesn't help that perception when he makes blatantly bad decisions like not challenging certain plays or not running the clock down enough.
Burrow, on the other hand, was PFF's top graded QB last year, led the league in completion percentage and had a few more major accolades, like most deep touchdown passes etc.

If coaches had a PFF grade, I wouldn't be surprised if Zac was at or near near the bottom of the league. I understand why people are quicker to give Burrow grace than the coaching staff.
 

Very fair observation. You're not wrong either. I just think on this particular day, our QB laid the biggest egg and put us at the bottom of a really big hill to climb. Most of the posters on here are acknowledging that, while putting some deserved blame on Zac, Simmons, Pollack, etc. But there are the outliers like I quoted and linked above. Those are the ones I direct my ire at.