The Bengals are a disappointment and Joe is off.

[lone bengal]

(10-10-2022, 09:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk about “big part.” He only played 21% of the defensive snaps here last year. Even less in 3/4 of our playoff games. And It’s not so much blaming the defense, as it is being frustrated that we let their best pass catcher beat us. With Bateman out it should have been that much easier to take away Andrews. Make literally anyone else beat you.

We’ve certainly seen teams do it to our best playmakers enough lately.

Yeah think I overvalue him just always think of that Chiefs game were he did a great job on Kelce. Seems like when they went single coverage they got burnt a few times Lamar missed two wide open Td’s. Could be wrong but I think you need to commit extra guys to spy Lamar maybe it’ makes it harder to cover Andrew’s.? Also the Ravens run heavy personnel with a 300 pound FB , Dobbins had some nice runs maybe had to commit extra guys to stop the run with Reader out. Or maybe there was a double but guys slow to react by play action.

[BengalsBong]

(10-10-2022, 08:59 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I actually was fine with that design, if you look at the tape, he was close to making a play, it was a nice design scheme with the blitz coming, force a quick throw but he was just a bit behind the throw.  Andrews is a tough matchup especially since he can move all over the play so hard to double , couple of his catches were more Jackson than anything.. 

I will never agree dropping Hendrickson into coverage is a good thing you send him after the QB on passing downs.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-10-2022, 09:34 AM)lone bengal Wrote: I get people are frustrated but blaming the defense and thinking Dax Hill will solve all are problems  isn’t the answer.  Looked like a blow coverage.  We can’t give up one TD to the league MVP when are offense blows tho. We need to be the 2000 Ravens defense to win games this year.  Flowers was a big part of the defense last year and Lou actually knows what he’s doing on defense I trust him.

And couple plays late that Andrews had major help from Lamar, he extended the play or just make a great pass into decent coverage, something we lacked last nite with Burrow and Chase

[*bfine32*]

JB is currently a middle-of-the-road QB. He's turning the ball over way too often and takes too long in his progressions. Currently, he's the 3rd best QB in his draft class.

IDK what it is, many like to take the simple route and say "playcalling" but it was mentioned by both he and Zac last year that JB has a lot of flexibility at the line based on what he sees presnap.

I came into the year asserting there's no QB in the NFL I'd take over JB, but now I'm not certain I can say that

[Essex Johnson]

(10-10-2022, 10:22 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I will never agree dropping Hendrickson into coverage is a good thing you send him after the QB on passing downs.

not always, we have done it before and been successful, as i stated, we blitz free on opposite side, the idea was to force the ball, i don;t believe Lamar had any clue Hendrickson was that close to making a play... we are bitching about predictability on offense but we want our defense to be predictable..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-10-2022, 10:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: JB is currently a middle-of-the-road QB. He's turning the ball over way too often and takes too long in his progressions. Currently, he's the 3rd best QB in his draft class.

IDK what it is, many like to take the simple route and say "playcalling" but it was mentioned by both he and Zac last year that JB has a lot of flexibility at the line based on what he sees presnap.

I came into the year asserting there's no QB in the NFL I'd take over JB, but now I'm not certain I can say that

I believe the flexibility Joe has is the ability to check into a run or a pass. He still only has 2 plays to choose from what they’ve said in the past.

[Rubekahn29]

(10-10-2022, 10:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: JB is currently a middle-of-the-road QB. He's turning the ball over way too often and takes too long in his progressions. Currently, he's the 3rd best QB in his draft class.

IDK what it is, many like to take the simple route and say "playcalling" but it was mentioned by both he and Zac last year that JB has a lot of flexibility at the line based on what he sees presnap.

I came into the year asserting there's no QB in the NFL I'd take over JB, but now I'm not certain I can say that

He’s definitely struggling. And these last 3 weeks have been even more evident because the line has played average to above average in pass blocking and he’s still not playing well. Hopefully it’ll fix itself, but it’s not a great start by any means.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2022, 10:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I believe the flexibility Joe has is the ability to check into a run or a pass. He still only has 2 plays to choose from what they’ve said in the past.

Who knows? I can only go by what they say. Of course, he cannot change the personnel presnap. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-10-2022, 10:29 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: He’s definitely struggling. And these last 3 weeks have been even more evident because the line has played average to above average in pass blocking and he’s still not playing well. Hopefully it’ll fix itself, but it’s not a great start by any means.

Huh? He played well against both NY and Miami.

NY - 275 yds 3 TD 0 INT 114.9 rating

Miami - 287 yds 2 TD 0 INT 115.9 rating

[Essex Johnson]

(10-10-2022, 10:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: JB is currently a middle-of-the-road QB. He's turning the ball over way too often and takes too long in his progressions. Currently, he's the 3rd best QB in his draft class.

IDK what it is, many like to take the simple route and say "playcalling" but it was mentioned by both he and Zac last year that JB has a lot of flexibility at the line based on what he sees presnap.

I came into the year asserting there's no QB in the NFL I'd take over JB, but now I'm not certain I can say that

I don;t see him as 3rd best at all and still in play as top QB in that draft with Herbert main competition.  What i do worry is he might be a bit limited in adjusting to defense schemes even with all the weapons that he has been given and though he does do well at times avoiding rush and running, most of that is in the pocket area, he seems a bit limited getting out of pocket and being effective right now.  I stated also his play action is just not good and he can improve that and would be helpful. As stated by both Taylor and Burrow, he has been given a good amount of control of offense when he sees the defense etc.

The good thing outside of mobility these are areas were he can improve and get back of feeling like he is the franchise QB we envisioned for this team. 

[KillerGoose]

(10-10-2022, 10:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: JB is currently a middle-of-the-road QB. He's turning the ball over way too often and takes too long in his progressions. Currently, he's the 3rd best QB in his draft class.

IDK what it is, many like to take the simple route and say "playcalling" but it was mentioned by both he and Zac last year that JB has a lot of flexibility at the line based on what he sees presnap.

I came into the year asserting there's no QB in the NFL I'd take over JB, but now I'm not certain I can say that

This is a completely fair assessment, I think. I was thinking about this after the game last night. Joe is a very likeable QB, at least to me and much of the fanbase. People will obviously defend him to the death after the run last year. Rightfully so. However, it is also fair to objectively try to analyze him. 

I have him a little higher than you do, in the 8-10 range but that is trending downward and is quite honestly buoyed very heavily by his last six or so games from 2021. With him ending that way, I was optimistic that he would continue that trajectory into this season and he hasn't. 

[kalibengal]

(10-10-2022, 12:52 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It all starts at the top…

yes, other teams face similar and they figure it out and keep their plays going . Look at Justin Jefferson...he just keeps ringing up big numbers.
Our prepration, playcalling is just horrible. We always seem to start flat as well.
And my take: JB needs to set aside that glittzy gear hes wearing and get serious about playing better. He missed alot tonite and looked off.....again.
You cant walk in like a peacock and play like a chicken. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2022, 10:38 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is a completely fair assessment, I think. I was thinking about this after the game last night. Joe is a very likeable QB, at least to me and much of the fanbase. People will obviously defend him to the death after the run last year. Rightfully so. However, it is also fair to objectively try to analyze him. 

I have him a little higher than you do, in the 8-10 range but that is trending downward and is quite honestly buoyed very heavily by his last six or so games from 2021. With him ending that way, I was optimistic that he would continue that trajectory into this season and he hasn't. 

Word...and it's why I used "currently" in my negative assessment. We'd like to see him currently in talks with Allen, Mahomes, and Herbert as the best young QB in the NFL, but that's currently not the case. Some will say "because Zac", well if it's all because of HC then why pay a QB big money? Take the $40 MIL a year we can save in not paying JB and buy Bellicheat from NE...No second that. He hasn't been a "genius" since TB left....hhhmmm why is that?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-10-2022, 10:41 AM)kalibengal Wrote: yes, other teams face similar and they figure it out and keep their plays going . Look at Justin Jefferson...he just keeps ringing up big numbers.
Our prepration, playcalling is just horrible. We always seem to start flat as well.
And my take: JB needs to set aside that glittzy gear hes wearing and get serious about playing better. He missed alot tonite and looked off.....again.
You cant walk in like a peacock and play like a chicken. 

He wore a all black suit…

Maybe he should have worn something more “glitzy.”

[KillerGoose]

(10-10-2022, 10:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Word...and it's why I used "currently" in my negative assessment. We'd like to see him currently in talks with Allen, Mahomes, and Herbert as the best young QB in the NFL, but that's currently not the case. Some will say "because Zac", well if it's all because of HC then why pay a QB big money? Take the $40 MIL a year we can save in not paying JB and buy Bellicheat from NE...No second that. He hasn't been a "genius" since TB left....hhhmmm why is that?

Yeah, no issue with any of this. It's an unfortunate reality. We still have plenty of football, so things can change but the first five games have been very, very disappointing. I expected so much more from not only the team, but from Joe. I had Joe pegged in as a legitimate MVP contender and that's looking comical. 

[Essex Johnson]

(10-10-2022, 10:38 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is a completely fair assessment, I think. I was thinking about this after the game last night. Joe is a very likeable QB, at least to me and much of the fanbase. People will obviously defend him to the death after the run last year. Rightfully so. However, it is also fair to objectively try to analyze him. 

I have him a little higher than you do, in the 8-10 range but that is trending downward and is quite honestly buoyed very heavily by his last six or so games from 2021. With him ending that way, I was optimistic that he would continue that trajectory into this season and he hasn't. 

You throw in the 4 post season games, we are 9 games in and he has just two games over 300 yards and two games with 3 passing Tds but outside of the game against Steelers, he as been secure with the ball but lacking the big plays  it seems. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Burrow got hot in the 2nd half of last season so there’s at least a precedent for thinking that could happen again.

[BengalsBong]

(10-10-2022, 10:27 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: not always, we have done it before and been successful, as i stated, we blitz free on opposite side, the idea was to force the ball, i don;t believe Lamar had any clue Hendrickson was that close to making a play... we are bitching about predictability on offense but we want our defense to be predictable..

I do not care if they play is a success or not you do not drop your best pass rusher into coverage.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-10-2022, 08:54 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Andrews wasn’t his responsibility. Flowers was either playing RAT or a hook zone. He carried Andrews until he left his zone and then released him. Someone was supposed to be backside, and they weren’t. I don’t know who that is yet, but someone else messed up.

Bates

[KillerGoose]

(10-10-2022, 12:11 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I do not care if they play is a success or not you do not drop your best pass rusher into coverage.

It's a fire zone, a way to simulate a blitz without actually blitzing. You can't blitz in zone coverage, or at least it isn't advisable. You leave a hole in the field if you do. A fire zone rectifies that issue by bringing someone on a "blitz" but replacing them via an end dropping into coverage. Every single team in the NFL does it, it's a common defensive tactic.