The 2021 Kansas City Chiefs

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2022, 04:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: ....and Lou outwitted him and Mahommes last year. Twice. I'm not saying this team can or is going on a similar run this year, but it's still possible.

difference is Andy is the HC

Lou is the DC. Cincy's problems come from the offensive side of the ball

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-10-2022, 04:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: difference is Andy is the HC

Lou is the DC. Cincy's problems come from the offensive side of the ball

.....which was KCs problem early on too. Mahommes was throwing INTs and they struggled moving the ball and scoring. Then, they flipped the script. DCs were flustering those boys too, that was my point. I'm certainly not putting Zac anywhere near Andy's stature....but even Reid and Co had issues adjusting last season.

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2022, 04:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....which was KCs problem early on too. Mahommes was throwing INTs and they struggled moving the ball and scoring. Then, they flipped the script. DCs were flustering those boys too, that was my point. I'm certainly not putting Zac anywhere near Andy's stature....but even Reid and Co had issues adjusting last season.

perhaps more designed passes to the RBs?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One player that I think would excel working underneath against cover two spam is Trent Taylor. I don't think he'll get the opportunities, but if he did I would expect good things. Tyler Boyd is getting those opportunities, and unfortunately it hasn't been panning out yet -- even with Burrow increasingly willing to check it down lately.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-10-2022, 04:09 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: perhaps more designed passes to the RBs?

I sure wouldn't be opposed to it .....

[Essex Johnson]

(10-10-2022, 03:42 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Exactly and for those that don't want to take the time to read the OP's excellent post, there are lots of similarities between the Chiefs then and 2022 Bengals.

Well im not on the fire ZT bandwagon but KC has Andy Reid, probably going down as one of the greatest offensive minds in the game.. 

[Tony]

(10-10-2022, 03:33 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: You know that team that has hosted four AFC Championship games in a row? The same one our Bengals beat twice last season? Let's take a look at how their 2021 season started:

Beat Cleveland by 4 (1-0)
Lost to Baltimore by 1 (1-1)
Lost to LAC by 6 (1-2)
Beat Philadelphia by 12 (2-2)
Lost to Buffalo by 18 (2-3)
Beat Washington by 18 (3-3)
Lost to Tennessee by 24 (3-4)

They opened 2-3, and two of those losses were very close.

How about all-world quarterback Patrick Mahomes in those first five games? He threw six interceptions. The Chiefs very publicly struggled through the first half of 2021 as defenses played with two safeties deep to force Mahomes to be patient and sustain long, methodical drives. It led to him making mistakes at an inordinate rate, and they were very slow to get out of that funk, even with Hall of Fame offensive mastermind head coach Andy Reid in command. Eventually they did (they won every other game not listed above apart from their two games against the Bengals). Hell, even as the Chiefs started winning, Mahomes himself was still struggling throughout the middle portion of the season against cover two. He finished with seven overall games under 7 yards per pass attempt.

There are clearly parallels here. How about another one?

~ They opened 2021 with three new starters on the offensive line (Thuney, Humphrey, and Brown) after their previous unit got pushed around in the Super Bowl.

---

This isn't all to say that the 2022 Bengals are the 2021 Chiefs. But they sure as hell can be. These Bengals are also much better on defense than those Chiefs were. My point is that the struggles the Bengals have had so far this year should look familiar, because a team with a very similar build to ours (excellent quarterback with a million weapons, an offensive head coach, a defense with questionable pass rush but strong fundamentals, etc) just went through a lot of the same problems and still found themselves.

Indeed, I think the Bengals problems on offense are symptomatic of larger trends league-wide: scoring is down in general. Defense has been ahead of offense across the NFL for the first five weeks. There are exceptions here and there, but this is the trend. It's very easy to look at our arsenal of offensive talent and scream WTF, but it seems to me that the Bengals are not alone in this struggle (and neither is Zac Taylor). Their chances this season will likely depend on their ability to break free from the malaise faster than most other teams manage, and their willingness to follow the blueprint laid before them by the Chiefs.

Don't even compare this mess too Andy Reid, Mahomes and the chiefs. They are not even in the same realm..

[Tony]

(10-10-2022, 03:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's the exact same record through five games though.... that's what the OP is alluding to. Can the Bengals replicate that run? We'll soon see.

Hell no.. I can't belive I even gotta do this but Reid >>>>Taylor

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-10-2022, 03:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: only difference is KC won games. Bengals are losing with last second field goals

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2022, 03:38 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I admit I didnt read the post



I want to say that gives me hope, but I really dont know. I know the chiefs had a better line last season

Then what in the heck were you responding to??  

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2022, 05:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Then what in the heck were you responding to??  

lmao because I knew the chiefs were struggling early on last year. I just thought they were 3-2 at this point

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2022, 03:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: I hope where not the 2021 chiefs.  We kicked their ass twice.

Good news! We don't have to play the Bengals this year!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"The Chiefs have Andy Reid" is effectively meaningless when they started their season so much like the Bengals started this one. Whatever one thinks of Zac Taylor, the whole point here is that even the great Andy Reid and the great Patrick Mahomes needed at least half a season to figure out cover two.

[TheFan]

(10-10-2022, 07:36 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: "The Chiefs have Andy Reid" is effectively meaningless when they started their season so much like the Bengals started this one. Whatever one thinks of Zac Taylor, the whole point here is that even the great Andy Reid and the great Patrick Mahomes needed at least half a season to figure out cover two.

This is a good post by the OP and I think it does give us some hope that we can turn it around. 

That said, saying KC has Reid is not meaningless. He has shown for years that he's one of if not the best offensive mind in football. He has the history to assume he's going to figure the offense out and get it going again. 

Zac Taylor has no history or proof of being a good play caller/offensive mind at any level. We all hope he will but there's a big difference between the abilities of the two (given what we've seen so far). 

[Tony]

(10-10-2022, 07:36 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: "The Chiefs have Andy Reid" is effectively meaningless when they started their season so much like the Bengals started this one. Whatever one thinks of Zac Taylor, the whole point here is that even the great Andy Reid and the great Patrick Mahomes needed at least half a season to figure out cover two.

 No.. You got it wrong. The chiefs fixed it because Andy Reid is proven and a hall of fame coach. Zac Taylor has never proven shit..

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What I am saying, that I probably haven't communicated clearly enough, is this:

We know that Andy Reid faced this cover two problem last year with an absolutely loaded offensive roster. About 9-10 games into the season, the Chiefs seemed to settle into a rhythm and ended up third in the league in total yards when the season ended.

We also know that Zac Taylor faces a similar problem right now with a similarly loaded offensive roster. Through 5 games, we have seen inconsistent signs of improvement, but it looked bad last night.

We don't know yet whether the Zac Taylor offense will manage to turn it around like Andy Reid and the Chiefs did. Just predicting they *won't* on the basis of "Zac Taylor" strikes me as incredibly pessimistic and even unrealistic given the talent on the roster. Even an all-time great coach had trouble with this, and it took him longer than five games to get it sorted. We won't know whether Zac Taylor is the world's biggest doofus (or at least less successful than Andy Reid in solving this particular issue) until he has had at least as much time as Andy Reid had. It just so happens that the schedule will be softer for a while, so the opportunity for stacking wins is ripe for the taking.

I don't know if they'll do it, but I think it's plenty realistic that they can do it. We'll see. If after 10 games the offense is still stinking up the place and the team is sputtering around under .500, then by all means. Hurl those pitchforks.

[Garrus]

There is certainly time for them to turn this thing around, and they have been in every game so far this season. If the defense keeps its current pace and the offense can just get a little more consistent, I could see us really picking up steam. Winning our next 3 games is vital though, as after our bye the schedule becomes even harder. Beating Cleveland also is now vitally important.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2022, 08:14 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: What I am saying, that I probably haven't communicated clearly enough, is this:

No, you've been quite clear. You're talking to a guy who literally in back-to-back posts says you can't compare Andy Reid to Zac Taylor then proceeds to compare Andy Reid to Zac Taylor.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-10-2022, 07:58 PM)Tony Wrote:  No.. You got it wrong. The chiefs fixed it because Andy Reid is proven and a hall of fame coach. Zac Taylor has never proven shit..

This is a copy cat league. I'm sure ZT and co are looking at how KC dealt with it and will figure it out.

[motoarch]

(10-10-2022, 06:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Good news! We don't have to play the Bengals this year!

That's great news!