Updated PFF OL tells the tale

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2022, 03:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i think we would have been losing money in Vegas that after 5 games, with that this revamped line would be 26th in any ranking and wow last through week 4.  

Say what you want about play calling, Burrow under performing, the Oline is the main reason we sit at 2-3, lets hope the improvement from last game continues or we are in for a tough year to make the playoffs

Only a very miniscule amount of players can compensate for a lack of good coaching/playcalling.

And the lack of playing time this OL has had together due to the myriad of injuries before the season started didn't help either.

[BengalsBong]

(10-13-2022, 11:52 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Yes it is his job but the same uneducated sports-world mob will still whistle to the tune of get rid of ZT as the play-caller. How do you know it's not run correctly in practice? Takes one simple mishap to eff' up the outcome of a play.

Should the SB winning Rams have dumped Sean Mcvay a year ago when they dropped 3 in a row in late Nov./early Dec. when they scored a total of 50 points in those games? Was everything they were running simply not working in practice? Again, for the mildly confused whether you've played the game or not, it takes all 11 players to run a play successfully. From the players intrinsically involved in that play to the player the furthest away from the action who simply might not be selling out the fake on the defense correctly.

Cinci. has FOUR, yes, FOUR new starting OL and just a pretty good starting LT and NONE (all 5 plus the TE) of them played a down together until they had to line up against Watt. I'd like to think you might be one of the very very few % of people on this site that understand that and how vital their jobs are both physically and innately but not sure.

And the head coach chose to sit all of those new o-linemen out all preseason and not get them reps with a DIVISION rival the very first game of the year.

Zac is coaching like he got a 5-year extension and has all the job security in the world which he does.

You do not have to worry Zac already said he is not changing the way plays are called.

[BengalsBong]

(10-13-2022, 11:47 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No coach can make every player run every play flawlessley, every time. 

That's completely unrealistic. 

Yes it was his words. But you can expect it to look better the shuffle pass we saw that looked terrible. You drill plays over and over till you get them right. It falls on the head coach for execution as well you are coaching them up if the look like dog crap it is a direct reflection of your coaching skills. 

I do not want to hear how it was a new guy running the shuffle pass cause this guy has been on your team under the head coach for 3 years.

If your o-linemen bearhug the pass rushers and do not grab the by the chest and clamp on with a strong grip on the jersey, then that is bad form. The o-line coach the offensive cord the head coach should all three get this fixed. But you still see some of our dumbass o-linemen doing it all the damn time. But go ahead and pass the buck to Pollack call for his head to prove your point. It falls on the head coach everything falls on the head coach he can move anywhere and coach any position. Kind of like the queen on a chess board.

[Essex Johnson]

So many excuses, where were those for our inexperienced line last year, pretty simple players are accountable too and so far this unit is the most disappointing of any unit with what is invested in them.

[*Synric*]

(10-12-2022, 05:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And that was on a 15/3 gap/zone ratio. They had been splitting it mostly down the middle with a slight edge going to zone up until this past Sunday.

Just wondering where you got the information. I havent went back and watched the game (catching up in my CFB) but I do remember some inside zone runs and some duos (gap). 

[KillerGoose]

(10-14-2022, 07:30 AM)Synric Wrote: Just wondering where you got the information. I havent went back and watched the game (catching up in my CFB) but I do remember some inside zone runs and some duos (gap). 

PFF. They give you information about run types, either zone or gap. They logged it as 15 gap/3 zone for the Baltimore game. 

[higgy100]

(10-14-2022, 01:44 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Yes it was his words. But you can expect it to look better the shuffle pass we saw that looked terrible. You drill plays over and over till you get them right. It falls on the head coach for execution as well you are coaching them up if the look like dog crap it is a direct reflection of your coaching skills. 

I do not want to hear how it was a new guy running the shuffle pass cause this guy has been on your team under the head coach for 3 years.

If your o-linemen bearhug the pass rushers and do not grab the by the chest and clamp on with a strong grip on the jersey, then that is bad form. The o-line coach the offensive cord the head coach should all three get this fixed. But you still see some of our dumbass o-linemen doing it all the damn time. But go ahead and pass the buck to Pollack call for his head to prove your point. It falls on the head coach everything falls on the head coach he can move anywhere and coach any position. Kind of like the queen on a chess board.

What you don't seem to even want to understand is you're drilling those plays into players in practice both in walk-thru and also with defenders on your same team that know exactly what the play is. Nobody is fooled.Plays are not 100% full proof in a game and especially in a congested area near the goal line.

In a game you're going up against real defenses with Parsons or Watt with pre-snap shifting and movement. All it takes is a sniff by a defender
or a defender staying in the box inside knowing full well they don't have to worry about containment with Burrow because he never ever rolls out. Totally different story with the Chiefs and their success running that play with a crazy athletic QB.

EVERYTHING offensively, and especially if you want any consistency, starts with your OL and run game. Nice improvement last week and this game was for the taking. Stupidity by the collective offensive staff not to run Mixon with a RB and OL that for the first time all season was getting to the 2nd level, creating running lanes and was supremely confident.

[Joelist]

The OL has been doing its job in pass blocking for three games now. The problems are a combination of us giving the play away, just dumb plays in the first place and Burrow and Mixon both not playing up to standard.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-14-2022, 07:30 AM)Synric Wrote: Just wondering where you got the information. I havent went back and watched the game (catching up in my CFB) but I do remember some inside zone runs and some duos (gap). 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-12-2022, 06:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Interesting, so our interior OL are much more efficient in designed power plays than in picking up defenders laterally.  It might look like boring football, but a team with an OL that can effectively execute ISOs, Traps, and Whams (TE traps) is likely to average over 4 yds/ attempt. (fewer "melee gaps" for athletic defenders to exploit=fewer hits behind the LOS)  Which can lead to some timely PA stuff and preferred receivers able to exploit one on one coverage, later in the game.

I think it will be anything but boring football if we stay with what is working with this Gap scheme instead of the WZ.

Might actually become that Offense I was expecting to see this season, just a really rough start to it. It is okay if we turn it
around, no need to panic at this point, we are still in the race.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-14-2022, 12:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think it will be anything but boring football if we stay with what is working with this Gap scheme instead of the WZ.

Might actually become that Offense I was expecting to see this season, just a really rough start to it. It is okay if we turn it
around, no need to panic at this point, we are still in the race.

Especially if Collins and Williams can get their issues ironed out and perform like they can.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 01:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Especially if Collins and Williams can get their issues ironed out and perform like they can.

For sure. I think Karras, Cappa and Volson have played pretty damn good and especially Volson has gotten way better
every week. Looks like a great pick with Cordell Volson.

The injuries to both our Tackles don't help but La'el should be getting better with his back soon.

Is Jonah going to play on Sunday? Heard he had a knee cap issue, but if he plays, I think we got a chance to bounce 
back to .500. I just don't want to see Adeniji out there at LT, not good if this happens.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-14-2022, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. I think Karras, Cappa and Volson have played pretty damn good and especially Volson has gotten way better
every week. Looks like a great pick with Cordell Volson.

The injuries to both our Tackles don't help but La'el should be getting better with his back soon.

Is Jonah going to play on Sunday? Heard he had a knee cap issue, but if he plays, I think we got a chance to bounce 
back to .500. I just don't want to see Adeniji out there at LT, not good if this happens.

Can't agree more about Volson.  He still has a rookie moment or two each game at this point, but for the most part he does appear to be on track to become a fixture at LG for years to come.  I really like the looks of when he and Karras Iso the NT, and then Volson peels off to pick up another block at the second level.  Hope they continue to build upon that.

[Soonerpeace]

La El Collins I’m surprised has been a disappointment. Pollack liked him and he seemed to be excited to join the Bengals. But even small red flags are real. Dallas releasing him smacks of being tired of his BS. Then Jonah has struggled. We’ve lost 3 games at the very end of regulation. Just a better performing OL easily gets us all 3 wins. That’s no pipe dream that’s a definite.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 03:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Can't agree more about Volson.  He still has a rookie moment or two each game at this point, but for the most part he does appear to be on track to become a fixture at LG for years to come.  I really like the looks of when he and Karras Iso the NT, and then Volson peels off to pick up another block at the second level.  Hope they continue to build upon that.

Yeah, keep on building that chemistry. Those 2 should be together for years along with Cappa.

Our Tackles are our main question right now with both of them banged up.

(10-14-2022, 04:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: La El Collins I’m surprised has been a disappointment. Pollack liked him and he seemed to be excited to join the Bengals. But even small red flags are real. Dallas releasing him smacks of being tired of his BS. Then Jonah has struggled. We’ve lost 3 games at the very end of regulation. Just a better performing OL easily gets us all 3 wins. That’s no pipe dream that’s a definite.

With La'el I really think it is the back injury just lingering. Nothing more, he should get better as he gets healthier.

True on if our OL just played better we could easily be 5-0 right now, but some of the blame also belongs with the play 
calling and Burrow. Burrow had the appendectomy, and we knew the OL would take some time. Still think everything
comes together as the OL grows, Joe gets more comfortable and the play calling gets better cause of both of these things.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-13-2022, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Only a very miniscule amount of players can compensate for a lack of good coaching/playcalling.

And the lack of playing time this OL has had together due to the myriad of injuries before the season started didn't help either.

Whiffing on blocks and missing assignments are on the players to counter your argument,  play calling can't only do so much when players are not executing.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-15-2022, 01:24 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Whiffing on blocks and missing assignments are on the players to counter your argument,  play calling can't only do so much when players are not executing.

Truth, doesn't matter how good the play calling is if the execution is poor.