Drue Chrisman, take a bow!

[casear2727]

(11-21-2022, 02:47 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Speaking of the way things work, I had to laugh at Taylor's attempt at a fair catch after the ball bounced.

I thought that was brilliant, the Steelers fell for it. LOL

He could have tried to catch it on the bounce and get creamed, possibly fumble.
He could have let it go and watch it roll 30 yards down the filed.

But nope, fair caught the hop in excellent field position, cost us only 5 yards,

[Nepa]

(11-21-2022, 02:53 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: A muff counts as a fumble on punts (hence why there's always a mad dash after a punt to recover the ball) and blocked kicks that pass the LOS (hence why Miami recovered it in the Leon Lett fumble. That play has come up 3 times in the last week lol).

Would've 100% been a safety.

I was thinking this morning; if Chrisman punts like this forever, we have our punter for the next 10+ years: you could see on TV that his hangtime was superb.

This website  includes a video by NFL Officiating, which states if a punt if muffed in the field of play,  and then recovered in the end zone, then it is a touchback.

https://en.as.com/en/2021/11/22/nfl/1637621582_379071.html

It includes a video of a muffed punt from a Miami/Buffalo game where Buffalo muffed a punt at the 9-yard-line, the ball goes into the end zone, and is recovered by Buffalo in the endzone. The ball was then declared a touchback because it was never possessed by Buffalo, and thus the ball went out to the 20.

[Nepa]

(11-21-2022, 02:42 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If that's how the rule worked, punt returners would begin intentionally careening balls off their knees and ankles in an attempt to make them bounce into the end zone to get ~10 to 15 free yards on the touchback.

Not so. They would have to be the one to recover the ball in the end zone. If possessed by the kicking team in the end zone, it would be a TD. But if recovered by the receiving team, it would be a touchback.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-21-2022, 03:48 PM)Nepa Wrote: Not so. They would have to be the one to recover the ball in the end zone. If possessed by the kicking team in the end zone, it would be a TD. But if recovered by the receiving team, it would be a touchback.

Makes no sense though; the scenario CJD brought up then, would be MUCH more frequent.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2022, 03:45 PM)Nepa Wrote: This website  includes a video by NFL Officiating, which states if a punt if muffed in the field of play,  and then recovered in the end zone, then it is a touchback.

https://en.as.com/en/2021/11/22/nfl/1637621582_379071.html

It includes a video of a muffed punt from a Miami/Buffalo game where Buffalo muffed a punt at the 9-yard-line, the ball goes into the end zone, and is recovered by Buffalo in the endzone. The ball was then declared a touchback because it was never possessed by Buffalo, and thus the ball went out to the 20.

Yep. Pretty sure a muffed punt would be a touchback because the runner never actually has possession of the ball before going into the EZ. 

[Nepa]

(11-21-2022, 03:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Makes no sense though; the scenario CJD brought up then, would be MUCH more frequent.

It would be too risky to deliberately muff a punt into the end zone, as that would mean the kicking team could recover for a TD.

The rule may not make much sense, but that would just place it with other rules that don't seem to make much sense. (Why can one recover a kickoff after ten yards, but not if it goes into the end zone, where it becomes an automatic touchback; why can one strip a runner a inch from going into the end zone and the ball goes out the end zone and the defending team gets the ball at the 20?)

One can drive oneself nuts wondering about some of these rules. And this muffed punt one falls into the same category.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2022, 11:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: We have a new franchise punter!

His first NFL game:

3 punts, 50 yard average, but more importantly, a 44,7 yard net.  With that wind knocking Evan Almighty's kickoffs down, that is nothing short of impressive.

Here were the punts:

Punt 1:  53 yard punt to 5 yard line, followed by 3 and out.

Punt 2:  57 yard punt to 9 yard line, followed by 3 and out, and then Bengals TD

Punt 3:  40 yard punt from his own endzone (into the wind with enough hang time to have zero return).  

Nice job, Drue.  

Classy touch:  Kevin Huber went and got the ball from his first NFL punt.  Well done, Kevin.

Not sure if/where there's a discrepancy but i saw 48.7 net on PFF. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2022, 03:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Makes no sense though; the scenario CJD brought up then, would be MUCH more frequent.

But you would be risking a fumble and opponent recovery if you play around and touch it only to let it go to the EZ where it could be recovered for a TD by the kicking team. 

[RiverRat13]

It would have been a touchback - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-rule-patriots-steelers-muffed-punt-safety/wkghmvxrd5aziwhqgpuwlm0h

[Sled21]

(11-21-2022, 02:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I thought that was brilliant, the Steelers fell for it. LOL

He could have tried to catch it on the bounce and get creamed, possibly fumble.
He could have let it go and watch it roll 30 yards down the filed.

But nope, fair caught the hop in excellent field position, cost us only 5 yards,

Then he had the look on his face like "What, who me?"

[RiverRat13]

(11-21-2022, 03:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Makes no sense though; the scenario CJD brought up then, would be MUCH more frequent.

It makes sense when you look at the definition of a safety:

"SECTION 29 SAFETY It is a Safety if the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense is behind its own goal line, or if the ball is dead in possession of a team on or behind its own goal line when the impetus (3-17) comes from the team defending that goal line."

The ball is live when touched by the receiving team but no possession has been established by the receiver.  It's not a fumble ("The use of the term Fumble always means that the ball was in possession of a player when the act occurred (8-7-3)").  A live ball recovered in your own endzone becomes a touchback.  A live ball recovered by the opponent in your endzone is a touchdown for the opponent.

https://operations.nfl.com/media/5kvgzyss/2022-nfl-rulebook-final.pdf

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-21-2022, 04:59 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: It makes sense when you look at the definition of a safety:

"SECTION 29 SAFETY It is a Safety if the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense is behind its own goal line, or if the ball is dead in possession of a team on or behind its own goal line when the impetus (3-17) comes from the team defending that goal line."

The ball is live when touched by the receiving team but no possession has been established by the receiver.  It's not a fumble ("The use of the term Fumble always means that the ball was in possession of a player when the act occurred (8-7-3)").  A live ball recovered in your own endzone becomes a touchback.  A live ball recovered by the opponent in your endzone is a touchdown for the opponent.

https://operations.nfl.com/media/5kvgzyss/2022-nfl-rulebook-final.pdf

I meant it makes no sense to NOT deliberately make it a TB. If it can be caught on the fly, surely one can be taught to hit it backwards (over the head or whatever), on the fly.

Of course, it would only be safe to do so if there are no defenders around and it would be a situational case, but I'd definitely teach and practice with my returners to do that.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2022, 05:36 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I meant it makes no sense to NOT deliberately make it a TB. If it can be caught on the fly, surely one can be taught to hit it backwards (over the head or whatever), on the fly.

Of course, it would only be safe to do so if there are no defenders around and it would be a situational case, but I'd definitely teach and practice with my returners to do that.

Def makes sense to do what you can to give your team a better spot. Kind of like how KR will step out of bounds and then touch a ball in play to get a penalty and the ball at the 40. 

[EatonFan]

Anybody know what the rule is if the returner muffs and it goes out of bounds in the end zone?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-21-2022, 07:19 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Anybody know what the rule is if the returner muffs and it goes out of bounds in the end zone?

Should be the same thing; TB.

[RiverRat13]

The impetus has to be from the opponent. The receiving team just batting it backwards would not only be risky for the other team to recover, but would not fit the definition of a touchback. Forcibly hitting the ball would put the impetus on the receiver. That would be a safety if recovered by the receiving team. It would not be considered a muff.

[cinci4life]

(11-21-2022, 12:33 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Crisman was close to getting a safety one his first punt ever when the returner couldn't handle it and it bounced right into the end zone.

Fortunately for the returner it cherry hopped back up to him upon arrival and he was able to get back out of the end zone.

It actually wouldn't have been a safety but a touchback because it was a muffed punt and not a fumble which is why i was shocked the returner tried to get out of the endzone instead of just falling on it. If he initially would have had complete possession and then fumbled it back into the endzone only then would it possibly be a safety.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-21-2022, 11:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: We have a new franchise punter!

His first NFL game:

3 punts, 50 yard average, but more importantly, a 44,7 yard net.  With that wind knocking Evan Almighty's kickoffs down, that is nothing short of impressive.

Here were the punts:

Punt 1:  53 yard punt to 5 yard line, followed by 3 and out.

Punt 2:  57 yard punt to 9 yard line, followed by 3 and out, and then Bengals TD

Punt 3:  40 yard punt from his own endzone (into the wind with enough hang time to have zero return).  

Nice job, Drue.  

Classy touch:  Kevin Huber went and got the ball from his first NFL punt.  Well done, Kevin.

Nice thread for Drue SHRacer. Just watched the game and his first 3 Punts were great. Dang near caused a TO on his first one.

Things are looking good, Simmons just has to get our tackling down on ST's as Sims had a good game returning against us.