Team reliant on individual heroes due to mediocre coaches

[THE PISTONS]

I'm starting to worry that we caught lightning in a bottle last year. A large portion of games last year, the offense would look lifeless then Burrow would throw a deep one to Chase and we'd start rolling. We also had very few injuries. Then, the Staff got extended.

This year, all but 2 games that I can recall...the offense has struggled for large portions of the game. The defense has looked ok, but they really didn't face any elite QB's. (Could they have played a weaker QB schedule 8 games in?)

I also fear that our success is due in large part to individual heroes. ie Throw it to Chase and he makes 3 guys miss and takes it to the house.

Our offensive scheme is disjointed. We can't run from under Center. So we have to go Shotgun. When the pass rush is getting home, the coaches have very few ways to counter it. The quick -3 yard passes to Mixon don't help. And Mixon has looked bad most of the year, but you can't expect a back to break a tackle consistently.

Also Frank Pollack. This line shouldn't be this bad. They should be able to run under Center. He has to be on the hotseat.

Interestingly, against the Browns...the 1st drive went well generally. They moved the ball. Then starting the 2nd series...they stopped trying to throw down the field. You can't dink and dunk and win in the NFL...without a run game.

I had wondered if the 2 previous games meant that our offense was back on track. Unfortunately, we just played weak defenses with weak pass rushes. The Browns got lit up by Zappe for like 38 points. That defense totally shut us down.

Coaching is definately an issue.

[*michaelsean*]

Zac Flaccoed the Bengals.

[WeezyBengal]

Yep.

Offense has always been reliant on "explosive" plays. Chase pretty much bailed them out last year. He is a YAC machine.

Same thing happened against New Orleans and Atlanta. The loss of Chase has completely exposed this offense and its lack of scheme/creativity.

[ezekiel23]

(11-01-2022, 10:41 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm starting to worry that we caught lightning in a bottle last year. A large portion of games last year, the offense would look lifeless then Burrow would throw a deep one to Chase and we'd start rolling. We also had very few injuries. Then, the Staff got extended.

This year, all but 2 games that I can recall...the offense has struggled for large portions of the game. The defense has looked ok, but they really didn't face any elite QB's. (Could they have played a weaker QB schedule 8 games in?)

I also fear that our success is due in large part to individual heroes. ie Throw it to Chase and he makes 3 guys miss and takes it to the house.

Our offensive scheme is disjointed. We can't run from under Center. So we have to go Shotgun. When the pass rush is getting home, the coaches have very few ways to counter it. The quick -3 yard passes to Mixon don't help. And Mixon has looked bad most of the year, but you can't expect a back to break a tackle consistently.

Also Frank Pollack. This line shouldn't be this bad. They should be able to run under Center. He has to be on the hotseat.

Interestingly, against the Browns...the 1st drive went well generally. They moved the ball. Then starting the 2nd series...they stopped trying to throw down the field. You can't dink and dunk and win in the NFL...without a run game.

I had wondered if the 2 previous games meant that our offense was back on track. Unfortunately, we just played weak defenses with weak pass rushes. The Browns got lit up by Zappe for like 38 points. That defense totally shut us down.

Coaching is definately an issue.

This Browns defense is built to destroy an offense that has no running game,and a weak OL.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 10:52 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yep.

Offense has always been reliant on "explosive" plays. Chase pretty much bailed them out last year. He is a YAC machine.

Same thing happened against New Orleans and Atlanta. The loss of Chase has completely exposed this offense and its lack of scheme/creativity.

And those teams didn't have the personnel to pass rush at a high rate or play the Cover 2 needed to limit Chase.

The Ravens will be tough with Smith. The Steelers with Watt. The Bills have a pass rush. The Chiefs.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Didn't the Browns stomp us last year too? They simply dominated the lines of scrimmage. You don't win like that.

Huber is doing the team no favors either. Time to move on.

Agree that Pollack is really underachieving.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 11:15 AM)ezekiel23 Wrote: This Browns defense is built to destroy an offense that has no running game,and a weak OL.

Overall, though, Zappe put up 38 points against the Browns. This is a bad defense.

If you're a SB contender, you figure out how to beat a 2-5 team. 5 other teams did.

When the Browns have Watson, we may never come close.

[higgy100]

(11-01-2022, 11:15 AM)ezekiel23 Wrote: This Browns defense is built to destroy an offense that has no running game,and a weak OL.

It is but to not throw a screen pass or two against a rush getting constant penetration is so very High school mentality.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 11:29 AM)higgy100 Wrote: It is but to not throw a screen pass or two against a rush getting constant penetration is so very High school mentality.

Right! They did the direct pass to the RB's. Instead of let the rush come and dink it to the RB.

[Whatever]

(11-01-2022, 10:41 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm starting to worry that we caught lightning in a bottle last year. A large portion of games last year, the offense would look lifeless then Burrow would throw a deep one to Chase and we'd start rolling. We also had very few injuries. Then, the Staff got extended.

This year, all but 2 games that I can recall...the offense has struggled for large portions of the game. The defense has looked ok, but they really didn't face any elite QB's. (Could they have played a weaker QB schedule 8 games in?)

I also fear that our success is due in large part to individual heroes. ie Throw it to Chase and he makes 3 guys miss and takes it to the house.

Our offensive scheme is disjointed. We can't run from under Center. So we have to go Shotgun. When the pass rush is getting home, the coaches have very few ways to counter it. The quick -3 yard passes to Mixon don't help. And Mixon has looked bad most of the year, but you can't expect a back to break a tackle consistently.

Also Frank Pollack. This line shouldn't be this bad. They should be able to run under Center. He has to be on the hotseat.

Interestingly, against the Browns...the 1st drive went well generally. They moved the ball. Then starting the 2nd series...they stopped trying to throw down the field. You can't dink and dunk and win in the NFL...without a run game.

I had wondered if the 2 previous games meant that our offense was back on track. Unfortunately, we just played weak defenses with weak pass rushes. The Browns got lit up by Zappe for like 38 points. That defense totally shut us down.

Coaching is definately an issue.

You can be successful as an offense predicated on explosive plays.  Just look at the Bills as an example.  However, you can't be successful with that kind of an offense when you only have one explosive skill position player and he's out injured.  

Game plan and play design are issues, but there's just disconnects between what the coaches are trying to do and the personnel on the roster.  If we want to be a pass heavy offense, that's fine.  You need a RB who can pass protect, be a legitimate receiving threat, and can bust big runs when the defense tries to sit back in Tampa 2.  We don't have that.  If they want to push the ball down field, that's fine, but you have to compose your WR corps so you don't have to just chuck the playbook when one guy gets injured.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 12:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: You can be successful as an offense predicated on explosive plays.  Just look at the Bills as an example.  However, you can't be successful with that kind of an offense when you only have one explosive skill position player and he's out injured.  

Game plan and play design are issues, but there's just disconnects between what the coaches are trying to do and the personnel on the roster.  If we want to be a pass heavy offense, that's fine.  You need a RB who can pass protect, be a legitimate receiving threat, and can bust big runs when the defense tries to sit back in Tampa 2.  We don't have that.  If they want to push the ball down field, that's fine, but you have to compose your WR corps so you don't have to just chuck the playbook when one guy gets injured.

Even when Chase played, the offense struggled all but 2 games and it was against depleted teams.

And yes...great points in paragraph 2. And those cause the issues I mentioned about.

And when things go bad...like the pass rush is getting home, they have no clue how to call plays that stop it. Like traditionally screens where you let the rush get there then dink it over their head.

They hardly use Hurst. He is a good TE. Open a lot. Instead they do 3 yard dinks to Mixon and Wilcox.

It's just a mess from top to bottom and Taylor owns it. He's not some innovative offensive genius.

[Whatever]

(11-01-2022, 12:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Even when Chase played, the offense struggled all but 2 games and it was against depleted teams.

And yes...great points in paragraph 2. And those cause the issues I mentioned about.

And when things go bad...like the pass rush is getting home, they have no clue how to call plays that stop it. Like traditionally screens where you let the rush get there then dink it over their head.

They hardly use Hurst. He is a good TE. Open a lot. Instead they do 3 yard dinks to Mixon and Wilcox.

It's just a mess from top to bottom and Taylor owns it. He's not some innovative offensive genius.

We have struggled with the wide zone all year.  That plays into the lack of screens, because both require the OL to get second level blocks.  For another, it's not like Mixon can really hurt the defense on a screen.  He might get a 1st down if he's lucky, because he won't make anybody miss or break any tackles.  That's not enough to significantly slow the pass rush down, especially a guy like Garrett who can be in Burrow's lap by the time the screen gets set up.

I disagree on Hurst.  He is tied for 9th in Targets amongst TE's.  I'll concede that anybody that's productive in the passing game looks underutilized when the ghost of Joe Mixon got 9 Targets last night, though.

[XenoMorph]

(11-01-2022, 10:41 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm starting to worry that we caught lightning in a bottle last year. A large portion of games last year, the offense would look lifeless then Burrow would throw a deep one to Chase and we'd start rolling. We also had very few injuries. Then, the Staff got extended.

This year, all but 2 games that I can recall...the offense has struggled for large portions of the game. The defense has looked ok, but they really didn't face any elite QB's. (Could they have played a weaker QB schedule 8 games in?)

I also fear that our success is due in large part to individual heroes. ie Throw it to Chase and he makes 3 guys miss and takes it to the house.

Our offensive scheme is disjointed. We can't run from under Center. So we have to go Shotgun. When the pass rush is getting home, the coaches have very few ways to counter it. The quick -3 yard passes to Mixon don't help. And Mixon has looked bad most of the year, but you can't expect a back to break a tackle consistently.

Also Frank Pollack. This line shouldn't be this bad. They should be able to run under Center. He has to be on the hotseat.

Interestingly, against the Browns...the 1st drive went well generally. They moved the ball. Then starting the 2nd series...they stopped trying to throw down the field. You can't dink and dunk and win in the NFL...without a run game.

I had wondered if the 2 previous games meant that our offense was back on track. Unfortunately, we just played weak defenses with weak pass rushes. The Browns got lit up by Zappe for like 38 points. That defense totally shut us down.

Coaching is definately an issue.

It has been a definite issue since 2019... Last year was the * exception it seems.   Chase and Burrow made hey on lots of broken plays... And the Defense kept us alive.    If we can just get Competent offensive minded coaches this is a Team has lots of talent to be used.

Was never a Fan of Pollack Returning has he has really done nothing positive since leaving Dallas.
ZT should never have been allowed to call his own plays when he had no experience with it.

ultimately... Its the front office's fault for falling for a used car salesman

[Joelist]

A lot of this is coaching pure and simple.

The OL has four new starters, three of who came as veterans with track records of successful play for winning teams. All of a sudden they come here and it all falls apart? That is coaching and scheme.

Also a problem is the age old Bengal issue of their allergy to slants, screens and draws - in other words to anything at all designed to burn an aggressive defensive front. We briefly got to see the offense throwing slants and it was a thing of wonder - then last night it disappeared. As to screens, we always have no one out blocking in front of the screen which is a big reason it never works. Good screens use concepts like WR bubbles or other shifts designed to get blockers out in front of the screen runner.

This has to be the only pro offense I have seen (or one of a VERY few) that lets defenses tee off on their line and does absolutely nothing to burn them in return.

Then there is our schizoid approach to the run game. We actually had a couple of games where they went power and it worked but suddenly we're back to stretch plays? We should have been out there in a 12 package running power inside and telling Mixon to run straight ahead - no dances. That neutralizes Garrett (or any top rusher) once you get it going. and if Mixon won't sit him, use Perine and call up Jaquez Patrick from the PS who is big and runs with power.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 03:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: A lot of this is coaching pure and simple.

The OL has four new starters, three of who came as veterans with track records of successful play for winning teams. All of a sudden they come here and it all falls apart? That is coaching and scheme.

Also a problem is the age old Bengal issue of their allergy to slants, screens and draws - in other words to anything at all designed to burn an aggressive defensive front. We briefly got to see the offense throwing slants and it was a thing of wonder - then last night it disappeared. As to screens, we always have no one out blocking in front of the screen which is a big reason it never works. Good screens use concepts like WR bubbles or other shifts designed to get blockers out in front of the screen runner.

This has to be the only pro offense I have seen (or one of a VERY few) that lets defenses tee off on their line and does absolutely nothing to burn them in return.

Then there is our schizoid approach to the run game. We actually had a couple of games where they went power and it worked but suddenly we're back to stretch plays? We should have been out there in a 12 package running power inside and telling Mixon to run straight ahead - no dances. That neutralizes Garrett (or any top rusher) once you get it going. and if Mixon won't sit him, use Perine and call up Jaquez Patrick from the PS who is big and runs with power.

Yes. We don't seem to run a lot of slants or screens.

The throws to Mixon were just generally terrible plays in the situation. Then you get in 2nd and 3rd and 10...and you're going to get a pass rush.

ie The players look bad, but it's the scheme and playcalling. Mostly scheme.

[Housh]

I mean….i can’t see the lie, the over exaggeration, or the opinion.


Zac Taylor has had a damn near criminally one-sided reliance on Burrow playing great. For the most part, Burrow creates the narrative Zac gets every game. If Burrow struggles Zac had a shit gameplan, If he does good ppl say Zac’s gameplan helped him. Not very often do i see plays where I’m like “That was some great shit Zac!”

It’s always a guy making an amazing individual effort. If anything Lou’s called a bunch of great plays that make me pop but not Zac. Anything of Zac’s that works i subconsciously attribute it to Burrow and i know that’s not fair and i know I’m biased against Zac but i just can’t help it.

[Garrus]

I think Taylor really needs to hire an OC. I think he is good at certain parts of the job, but his offense is shaky at best.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(11-01-2022, 11:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Overall, though, Zappe put up 38 points against the Browns. This is a bad defense.

If you're a SB contender, you figure out how to beat a 2-5 team. 5 other teams did.

When the Browns have Watson, we may never come close.

This is really not getting talked about enough (as far as I can tell).

The Browns D-Line is strong, but there is no reason we shouldn't have had success through the air yesterday.

We had 0 points late in the 3rd, and were 25-0 down. Beyond pathetic.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 06:23 PM)Garrus Wrote: I think Taylor really needs to hire an OC. I think he is good at certain parts of the job, but his offense is shaky at best.

He was brought in as an offensive mind. He isn't that.

He's basically a guy that claps and says positive things on the sideline.

We have started each of his seasons bad or slow at 4-4 so I'd say he's not great at preparing the team to play.

Also, we have an absurdly low amount of 1st quarter TDs.

[chopperbobby]

When I can predict the play it is sad. Can anyone tell me why when it is 3 and 10 and your line can’t stop anything why do you have an empty back field and no extra Tight end or running back to help block? It is getting real easy to predict a sack. We do this all the time.

We also have to get a running game. Ours is broken. With no threat of run defenses are feasting.

Who Dey