T.J. Hockenson to Vikings

[*pally*]

Trade: Detroit is dealing TE T.J. Hockenson in its division, to the Minnesota Vikings, per sources. pic.twitter.com/R39lvQxVsy

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) November 1, 2022

Trade terms, source tells ESPN:

?Vikings get TE T.J. Hockenson, a 2023 fourth-round pick and a conditional 2024 fourth-round pick.

?Lions get 2023 second-round pick and a 2024 third-round pick.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) November 1, 2022

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Sure wouldn't have minded adding Hockenson.

[midnightorb]

The Lions do not do exciting when it comes to trades, it's almost always draft picks...or Jared Goff.

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 12:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sure wouldn't have minded adding Hockenson.

True, but the Vikings have a clear path to NFCN title and Irv smith is out for 8-10 weeks. Vikings did the right thing when you consider everything.

I’m not sure how much of an upgrade he would be over hurst, given the way bengals Use TE.

Just my $.02.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2022, 10:27 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: True, but the Vikings have a clear path to NFCN title and Irv smith is out for 8-10 weeks.  Vikings did the right thing when you consider everything.

I’m not sure how much of an upgrade he would be over hurst, given the way bengals Use TE.  

Just my $.02.

You're asking the wrong question. It isn't how much of an upgrade over Hurst he would be. It is how much of an upgrade over Wilcox he would be.

Wilcox has played 30% of the offensive snaps this year. Not to mention I would rather have 2 TE out there than the 31% of the offensive snaps Mike Thomas is on the field for so far this season (it will be more with Chase out).

Heck, last week here's some % snap counts on offense...
Wilcox: 28%
Thomas: 45%
Irwin: 43%
Taylor: 13%
Morgan: 4%

So asking how much of an upgrade he would have been over Hurst is the wrong question.

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 08:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're asking the wrong question. It isn't how much of an upgrade over Hurst he would be. It is how much of an upgrade over Wilcox he would be.

Wilcox has played 30% of the offensive snaps this year. Not to mention I would rather have 2 TE out there than the 31% of the offensive snaps Mike Thomas is on the field for so far this season (it will be more with Chase out).

Heck, last week here's some % snap counts on offense...
Wilcox: 28%
Thomas: 45%
Irwin: 43%
Taylor: 13%
Morgan: 4%

So asking how much of an upgrade he would have been over Hurst is the wrong question.

You don’t trade a second plus for a backup tight end that won’t command a lot of attention. Unless you are the 2010 pats

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2022, 08:13 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You don’t trade a second plus for a backup tight end that won’t command a lot of attention.  Unless you are the 2010 pats

Backup? Add those % together. Practice Squad players combined for 133% of the offensive snaps. You could have had Hockenson play 100% of the offensive snaps and they still would have had a PS player out there for 1/3 of the game. There are more than enough snaps out there to add 2 guys and have them both play 2/3rds of the snaps, which is a starting workload.

Also how won't he command a lot of attention? He is a 25-year-old top-10 pick Pro Bowler who had a 179 yard/2 TD game this year. 

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 09:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Backup? Add those % together. Practice Squad players combined for 133% of the offensive snaps. You could have had Hockenson play 100% of the offensive snaps and they still would have had a PS player out there for 1/3 of the game. There are more than enough snaps out there to add 2 guys and have them both play 2/3rds of the snaps, which is a starting workload.

Also how won't he command a lot of attention? He is a 25-year-old top-10 pick Pro Bowler who had a 179 yard/2 TD game this year. 

You said earlier that he wouldn’t be replacing hurst but Wilcox. Who is a backup. The move would have been for a fast receiver to help keep defense honest, not another boyd, hurst over the middle. Plus this offense IS a 3 wr offense, not a 2 TE offense.

This conversation is going no where.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2022, 10:23 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You said earlier that he wouldn’t be replacing hurst but Wilcox.  Who is a backup.  The move would have been for a fast receiver to help keep defense honest, not another boyd, hurst over the middle.  Plus this offense IS a 3 wr offense, not a 2 TE offense.

This conversation is going no where.

Wilcox is only a backup because he stinks. If you have 2 good TEs, you start 2 TEs. Hurst is playing 67% of the offensive snaps this year. Is he a backup? The Benglas haven't had 2 TEs worth a damn since 2013, and that year neither were backups. It would have been the same now.

The offense is a 3 WR offense when they have 3 WRs worth a damn. They're not a 2 TE offense when they have only 1 TE worth a damn. If you don't adjust your offense to suit the players you have, you're a failure as an OC. You can't run the same offense you did with Chase/Higgins/Boyd when you have Mike Thomas and Trenton Irwin playing significant offensive snaps, that's insanity.

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 11:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wilcox is only a backup because he stinks. If you have 2 good TEs, you start 2 TEs. Hurst is playing 67% of the offensive snaps this year. Is he a backup? The Benglas haven't had 2 TEs worth a damn since 2013, and that year neither were backups. It would have been the same now.

The offense is a 3 WR offense when they have 3 WRs worth a damn. They're not a 2 TE offense when they have only 1 TE worth a damn. If you don't adjust your offense to suit the players you have, you're a failure as an OC. You can't run the same offense you did with Chase/Higgins/Boyd when you have Mike Thomas and Trenton Irwin playing significant offensive snaps, that's insanity.

You are assuming I don’t understand this which isn’t true. I guess I have to assume that you believe the bengals OC could actually make this change mid-season?

[SunsetBengal]

(11-03-2022, 08:08 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: You are assuming I don’t understand this which isn’t true.  I guess I have to assume that you believe the bengals OC could actually make this change mid-season?

Nobody had planned for Chase to fracture his hip.  Injuries happen, coaching staffs have to roll with the new plan when the old one goes awry.