PFF Grades - Week 12

[jj22]

(11-28-2022, 03:41 PM)Nepa Wrote: on offense, I wonder how Kwamie Lassiter, who didn't catch a pass and whom I don't even remember seeing, ends up with a higher PFF score than Cappa, Boyd, Volson, and Karras.

I saw him in there. No targets I don't think. Maybe it was his blocking on the runs.... 

[Nepa]

(11-28-2022, 06:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I saw him in there. No targets I don't think. Maybe it was his blocking on the runs.... 

Thanks for the info.

To be frank, PFF is quite a mystery. It's entertaining to see the grades, and especially to see improvement in players over time, but I have no idea how reflective of reality the grades are. What is helpful is to have this board, where some posters focus in on players and share their perspective on how well they're performing game to game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-28-2022, 07:23 PM)Nepa Wrote: Thanks for the info.

To be frank, PFF is quite a mystery. It's entertaining to see the grades, and especially to see improvement in players over time, but I have no idea how reflective of reality the grades are. What is helpful is to have this board, where some posters focus in on players and share their perspective on how well they're performing game to game.

Sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I am just dumbfounded by PFF and completely disagree with them.

PFF is quite a mystery at times. Thought DJ played much better than that grade insinuates. But most of those grades I 
agree with. Just wonder sometimes how they go about their grading system, especially with Linebackers as we don't know
necessarily what their jobs are on any given play.

[Au165]

[quote='KillerGoose' pid='1285078' dateline='1669660911']

This is just an anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt. I know a guy who is familiar with how they grade. He's an offensive coordinator for a school over in Georgia, so he has some level of football background. His personal takeaway was that it was all a joke and shouldn't be taken very seriously. You are given a spreadsheet and work along with another analyst to watch the film and grade players. You are tasked with trying to figure out what their assignment was and whether or not you think they did it well. If you don't know their assignment, you just give them a zero for a neutral grade. If you and the other analyst are more than 0.5 apart from each other, you bring in a senior analyst to make a final decision for you. 

His description was that the analysts are primarily college students and you don't get any training on film analysis beforehand. I'll post some quotes from him so it is available verbatim. 


This is correct and honestly it’s not worth using PFF anymore outside of statistical items that is what the NFL teams actually use when they reference every team uses PFF. They used to have more qualified folks doing it but over the years like most large companies they started shoving off the major lifting to low paid under qualified folks.

[NUGDUKWE]

I don't know where the confusion comes from but DJ Reader scored an 80.1 grade from PFF this week with a 70.2 run defense grade.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 28, 2022

I always look forward to this thread and even its probably impossible to correctly grade all players it is nice to see a baseline. I also saw this tweet from goodberry before I saw the thread and the scores he said seem to be more accurate to me for Reader.

[MTBengalsFan]

If that game was a 65.7 for Reader, watch out when he scores in the 80's. I guess he'll be flipping guys to the sideline, taking o three offensive lineman and still stopping the RB shy of the line of scrimmage on every play?

[Nepa]

(11-28-2022, 08:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:

I don't know where the confusion comes from but DJ Reader scored an 80.1 grade from PFF this week with a 70.2 run defense grade.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 28, 2022

I always look forward to this thread and even its probably impossible to correctly grade all players it is nice to see a baseline. I also saw this tweet from goodberry before I saw the thread and the scores he said seem to be more accurate to me for Reader.

Read through this thread and one response said PFF grade was originally a 55 and Goodberry stated PFF must have corrected it (to the 80.1). Probably the 65.7 posted was also an earlier one that was corrected.

Good to see. 80.1 would make Reader the second-highest-graded player on defense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2022, 08:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:

I don't know where the confusion comes from but DJ Reader scored an 80.1 grade from PFF this week with a 70.2 run defense grade.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 28, 2022

I always look forward to this thread and even it’s probably impossible to correctly grade all players it is nice to see a baseline. I also saw this tweet from goodberry before I saw the thread and the scores he said seem to be more accurate to me for Reader.

That grade makes much more sense. I thought I was taking crazy pills.

[ezekiel23]

I really like what I’m seeing from CTB.This guy really knows how to Tackle,and I like that trait in a CB.Of course Chidobe Awuzie,the guy he replaced is a very good tackler as well.

[Science Friction]

Not hearing much love for Jonah. He's had a couple of pretty nice games of late. Seems to be feeling better that he was earlier in the season.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

If he and the offense continues to play well, he'll get more acknowledgement for his effort. The confidence in Jonah is growing but even a shitty golfer gets a nice shot once in awhile. I need to see a Hell of a lot more consistency before I buy in. He's in his 4th year/3rd year playing and I can't point to many dominant moments. He's mostly forgotten in the pre-season OT rankings because they don't have a lot to point to that shows he belongs with the better OTs in the league.

[SladeX]

(11-28-2022, 10:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That grade makes much more sense. I thought I was taking crazy pills.

I was about to never pay attention to PFF grades whatsoever going forward.

[Nepa]

(11-29-2022, 09:03 AM)SladeX Wrote: I was about to never pay attention to PFF grades whatsoever going forward.

In one of his comments, Goodberry said the Reader grade must "have been corrected."  Which begs the questions: "Was this an error in listing the grade, or was the initial low grade what PFF came up with originally? If the second, then what prompted the review and change? Was it blowback over the low grade or a standard process in place to review grades? If a standard process, then why present the grades until the process is complete?"

I have a suspicion that the grade was corrected because of blowback over the initial grade. I know that scenario happened at least once before, because PFF admitted after criticism of a grade that they went back and reviewed it. But if a response to criticism can trigger a review and correction, this makes PFF look very subjective. 

But for some reason PFF presented a grade for Reader to the public and then "corrected it." I don't know if PFF would be open with the public on why the grade was changed, but for such an important statistic, one presented on the TV broadcasts when they introduce players, it would be nice to be open on the process and to have trust in the grades.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-28-2022, 08:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:

I don't know where the confusion comes from but DJ Reader scored an 80.1 grade from PFF this week with a 70.2 run defense grade.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 28, 2022

I always look forward to this thread and even its probably impossible to correctly grade all players it is nice to see a baseline. I also saw this tweet from goodberry before I saw the thread and the scores he said seem to be more accurate to me for Reader.

Yes that makes more sense. Even higher would make even more sense.

PFF is turning into a complete joke.

[KillerGoose]

(11-29-2022, 09:35 AM)Nepa Wrote: ... this makes PFF look very subjective. 

PFF is subjective. Their standard analysts don't typically have any football background and they aren't trained in film review. They don't pay well and is a part-time gig so a lot of it is college kids looking for extra money. If they don't understand what they are seeing, they just assign a zero for the grade on the play. The only time a review is triggered in the standard process is when the two analysts grading a game disagree on what they are seeing. 

The analysts they use are only barely above casual fans in terms of football knowledge. Now, they do have some senior analysts that have football backgrounds, but they typically aren't brought into the review unless there is a disagreement somewhere from what I understand. 

[Nepa]

(11-29-2022, 11:56 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: PFF is subjective. Their standard analysts don't typically have any football background and they aren't trained in film review. They don't pay well and is a part-time gig so a lot of it is college kids looking for extra money. If they don't understand what they are seeing, they just assign a zero for the grade on the play. The only time a review is triggered in the standard process is when the two analysts grading a game disagree on what they are seeing. 

The analysts they use are only barely above casual fans in terms of football knowledge. Now, they do have some senior analysts that have football backgrounds, but they typically aren't brought into the review unless there is a disagreement somewhere from what I understand. 

Given all this, it is very interesting the emphasis given to these grades in the TV broadcasts. Players often are introduced during the broadcasts with their PFF ratings and rankings under their photos. 

[KillerGoose]

(11-29-2022, 02:00 PM)Nepa Wrote: Given all this, it is very interesting the emphasis given to these grades in the TV broadcasts. Players often are introduced during the broadcasts with their PFF ratings and rankings under their photos. 

Cris Collinsworth is the owner of PFF. I'm pretty sure they are only shown in very specific instances, I think only when Collinsworth is broadcasting. Grades weren't shown in the Bengals game this weekend for instance. They also weren't shown last night, but they were shown on the Sunday night game which Collinsworth was broadcasting. PFF also does work for many, if not all, NFL teams. That work is their data though, not their grades. Their data is top notch. Their grades are purely for fanfare and it works. Fans really like PFF grades.

[grampahol]

All impressive and all, but my QBR is 238 or at least that's what it says on my license plate..

[Nepa]

(11-29-2022, 02:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Cris Collinsworth is the owner of PFF. I'm pretty sure they are only shown in very specific instances, I think only when Collinsworth is broadcasting. Grades weren't shown in the Bengals game this weekend for instance. They also weren't shown last night, but they were shown on the Sunday night game which Collinsworth was broadcasting. PFF also does work for many, if not all, NFL teams. That work is their data though, not their grades. Their data is top notch. Their grades are purely for fanfare and it works. Fans really like PFF grades.

Excellent. Thank you. I was wondering what the pattern was in terms of showing the PFF grades.