With Trey out move to a 3-4

[casear2727]

(12-17-2022, 01:29 AM)J24 Wrote: 3-4 is the exact same scheme as a 5-2. An 3-4 OLB is a traditional End and 3-4 End is a Traditional DT. In reality both Hubbard and Hendrickson could be considered OLB.

This is so far off base Jake.  I am very surprised that you believe this.  I guess we can consider Von Belll and Hilton line backers as well?   

You and the kid that thinks ADG is on the level of Von Miller need to freshen up on defensive formations.  

Defensive Ends are designated as Defensive Ends for a reason.  OLB in a 3-4 are OLB for a reason - I get that Watt at Pittsburgh blurs this a bit but the vast majority are like Micah Parsons.  OLB in a 3-4 are not even the same type/size as OLB in a 4-3.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-17-2022, 01:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is so far off base Jake.  I am very surprised that you believe this.  I guess we can consider Von Belll and Hilton line backers as well?   

You and the kid that thinks ADG is on the level of Von Miller need to freshen up on defensive formations.  

Defensive Ends are designated as Defensive Ends for a reason.  OLB in a 3-4 are OLB for a reason - I get that Watt at Pittsburgh blurs this a bit but the vast majority are like Micah Parsons.  OLB in a 3-4 are not even the same type/size as OLB in a 4-3.

Well no kidding HS doesn't apply to NFl defenses. So if you're in a 3-4 or a 3-5-3 and you want to bounce to a 50 set, dropping your OLBs down into an 8 or 9 tech isn't what you'd do?  I was trying to get Jake's reasoning.  You're correct in that we put another DT(Toupou) out there in the 5-2, and I agree with you that Sam and Trey are DEs. 

For the record,  never said ADG was on the same level as Von Miller.  I said, (as an experiment until Trey gets healthy) we should try to use ADG in a Von Milller type 3-4 UNDER role to give Brady a different look.  My reasoning is  b/c a pressure,  gap control defense isn't going to bother Tom much IMO.   Fournette isn't to beat us rushing the ball; however, Tom Brady and Chris Godwin could be very problematic given how thin we are at CB. 

As stated by another poster, ADG is the only LB we have that could remotely play this role b/c all of our LBs are more 40 and 50 set types.  We just don't have a player that's a 3-4 OLB and that's why we talk things out on here. 

[casear2727]

(12-17-2022, 03:22 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Well no kidding HS doesn't apply to NFl defenses. So if you're in a 3-4 or a 3-5-3 and you want to bounce to a 50 set, dropping your OLBs down into an 8 or 9 tech isn't what you'd do?  I was trying to get Jake's reasoning.  You're correct in that we put another DT(Toupou) out there in the 5-2, and I agree with you that Sam and Trey are DEs. 

For the record,  never said ADG was on the same level as Von Miller.  I said, (as an experiment until Trey gets healthy) we should try to use ADG in a Von Milller type 3-4 UNDER role to give Brady a different look.  My reasoning is  b/c a pressure,  gap control defense isn't going to bother Tom much IMO.   Fournette isn't to beat us rushing the ball; however, Tom Brady and Chris Godwin could be very problematic given how thin we are at CB. 

As stated by another poster, ADG is the only LB we have that could remotely play this role b/c all of our LBs are more 40 and 50 set types.  We just don't have a player that's a 3-4 OLB and that's why we talk things out on here. 

High School doesn't work because size doesn't matter at those ages and size is really the issue in this discussion.

I like Jake a lot but totally disagree with him on this.

A 3-4 UNDER is simply a 3-4 defense with one OLB playing edge to stop the RUN.  

A pass rushing OLB in 3-4 is NOT a 220 pounder - especially one with a half a sack in 3 years.  As you stated we don't have any 3-4 OLB on the roster because we NEVER run a 3-4 defense.

I get your idea of having ADG in the game with Trey out but who are you taking off the field?  We need all 5 DBs vs Brady, and I don't see how ADG simply replaces Trey as he cannot collapse the 5 gap with an inline TE, nor is he going to contain the edge very well, especially with a pulling lineman?

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-17-2022, 04:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: High School doesn't work because size doesn't matter at those ages and size is really the issue in this discussion.

I like Jake a lot but totally disagree with him on this.

A 3-4 UNDER is simply a 3-4 defense with one OLB playing edge to stop the RUN.  

A pass rushing OLB in 3-4 is NOT a 220 pounder - especially one with a half a sack in 3 years.  As you stated we don't have any 3-4 OLB on the roster because we NEVER run a 3-4 defense.

I get your idea of having ADG in the game with Trey out but who are you taking off the field?  We need all 5 DBs vs Brady, and I don't see how ADG simply replaces Trey as he cannot collapse the 5 gap with an inline TE, nor is he going to contain the edge very well, especially with a pulling lineman?

I'd be using ADG in the role for this game, only in obvious passing situations against a pocket passer. In a passing situation, then Ossai would be coming off.  Earlier in the week Ossai was a question mark with his recurring shoulder injury; however since Ossai is healthy, it's changed the conversation a bit from when I first posted this.  I wasn't a fan of putting Zac Carter out on the edge.  I think ADG could set the edge, but I'd primarily want to use him as a pass rusher.
 
This would be a good time to see if ADG could do it on passing downs.  Once Trey returns, then it's back to business as usual b/c then most likely we will be facing Allen and Jackson to where a pressure gap control defense is best to bottle those guys up. 
Against NE we will need to see who the QB will be and who is back for us.  

[J24]

(12-17-2022, 01:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is so far off base Jake.  I am very surprised that you believe this.  I guess we can consider Von Belll and Hilton line backers as well?   

You and the kid that thinks ADG is on the level of Von Miller need to freshen up on defensive formations.  

Defensive Ends are designated as Defensive Ends for a reason.  OLB in a 3-4 are OLB for a reason - I get that Watt at Pittsburgh blurs this a bit but the vast majority are like Micah Parsons.  OLB in a 3-4 are not even the same type/size as OLB in a 4-3.

I must of missed something because in no way in hell do I think ADG and Miller are the same player. 

ADG is a WLB and Von Miller is an Edge. They play two different positions.

Now I'm high on Ossai as a player who I think will do well filling in for Hendrickson.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-17-2022, 05:12 PM)J24 Wrote: I must of missed something because in no way in hell do I think ADG and Miller are the same player. 

ADG is a WLB and Von Miller is an Edge. They play two different positions.

Now I'm high on Ossai as a player who I think will do well filling in for Hendrickson.

I want to see what Ossai and Dax can do this week against the Brady bunch. 

[casear2727]

(12-17-2022, 05:12 PM)J24 Wrote: I must of missed something because in no way in hell do I think ADG and Miller are the same player. 

ADG is a WLB and Von Miller is an Edge. They play two different positions.

Now I'm high on Ossai as a player who I think will do well filling in for Hendrickson.

I wasnt insinuating you compared ADJ and Miller.

[casear2727]

(12-17-2022, 04:56 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: I'd be using ADG in the role for this game, only in obvious passing situations against a pocket passer. In a passing situation, then Ossai would be coming off.  Earlier in the week Ossai was a question mark with his recurring shoulder injury; however since Ossai is healthy, it's changed the conversation a bit from when I first posted this.  I wasn't a fan of putting Zac Carter out on the edge.  I think ADG could set the edge, but I'd primarily want to use him as a pass rusher.
 
This would be a good time to see if ADG could do it on passing downs.  Once Trey returns, then it's back to business as usual b/c then most likely we will be facing Allen and Jackson to where a pressure gap control defense is best to bottle those guys up. 
Against NE we will need to see who the QB will be and who is back for us.  

Why do you think ADG is a good enough pass rusher to play edge at 225 pounds?  

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-17-2022, 07:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Why do you think ADG is a good enough pass rusher to play edge at 225 pounds?  

How do you know he's not until you give the guy the opportunity? He's the only one who fits the 3-4 OLB type so what would it hurt to try him there on a few passing situations?  This game is the time to try something new.  Really though, with Ossai back really this is a moot conversation b/c when I started this discussion it was b/c it was said he could also be out due to his shoulder, and Trey out with his wrist.

[casear2727]

(12-18-2022, 03:40 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: How do you know he's not until you give the guy the opportunity? He's the only one who fits the 3-4 OLB type so what would it hurt to try him there on a few passing situations?  This game is the time to try something new.  Really though, with Ossai back really this is a moot conversation b/c when I started this discussion it was b/c it was said he could also be out due to his shoulder, and Trey out with his wrist.

Guy, you have no idea what a 3-4 OLB is...  Micah Parsons, Khalil Mack these are 3-4 OLB, guys way over 245 pounds. ADG is the LAST of our LBs that would fit a 3-4 OLB.  ADG would be a safety before he was a 3-4 OLB.  He is a 4-3 OLB which is mostly pass coverage.

It is obvious that you dont know defenses or NFL personnel. 
Your initial idea of switching our base scheme in Week 15 is a terrible idea.
You dont understand the personnel required to run a 3-4.
You dont know why the 3-4 Under is utilized.

I hate to be rude but your knowledge is lacking and the more you try to defend this crazy idea with ADG the more uninformed you seem to be...

[007BengalsFan]

I suspect we will see some 3 man fronts against Tampa like we saw Lou use against K.C. and others. A 3 man front might work good against Tampa because they don't run the ball well to begin with. Of course Lou likes to mix it up so you will probably see a few different formations on defense.

[casear2727]

(12-18-2022, 04:16 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I suspect we will see some 3 man fronts against Tampa like we saw Lou use against K.C. and others.  A 3 man front might work good against Tampa because they don't run the ball well to begin with.  Of course Lou likes to mix it up so you will probably see a few different formations on defense.

No doubt, but they wont be in a 3-4 base alignment.  When we go 3 man we drop either Sam or Trey, so probably just Sam today.  Watching the Bills last night I can see Lou dialing this up vs Josh Allen with Sam spying him.

I would also like to see Dax bring some blitzes from that nickel corner position.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-18-2022, 04:06 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Guy, you have no idea what a 3-4 OLB is...  Micah Parsons, Khalil Mack these are 3-4 OLB, guys way over 245 pounds. ADG is the LAST of our LBs that would fit a 3-4 OLB.  ADG would be a safety before he was a 3-4 OLB.  He is a 4-3 OLB which is mostly pass coverage.

It is obvious that you dont know defenses or NFL personnel. 
Your initial idea of switching our base scheme in Week 15 is a terrible idea.
You dont understand the personnel required to run a 3-4.
You dont know why the 3-4 Under is utilized.

I hate to be rude but your knowledge is lacking and the more you try to defend this crazy idea with ADG the more uninformed you seem to be...

One of Kansas City's OLB in a 3-4 scheme Darius Harris is 6'2 230-lbs, ADG is 6'2 228-lbs;

The advantage of the 3-4 defense is that with four linebackers on the field you have more speed on the field. The basis is simple—the more athletes, the better.  The under is used to primarily defend the run by moving the OLB in a 5-tech over the weakside OT;

The 3-4 Under resembles a traditional 4-3, so it probably wouldn't be that difficult to implement; 

Brady is a pocket passer, and Tampa's rushing offense is one of the worse in the NFL, so I see zero reasons to spy him;

In the 3-4 UNDER The OLB has to be able to drop and cover the flat if necessary, blitz with success, and play strong on an offensive tackle.





I get you don't think ADG has enough rear-end to him to accomplish this, but he does have the ability to cover the flat very well. 




AS SAID EARLIER, NOW THAT OSSAI IS ACTIVE, THIS DEBATE ISN'T NECESSARY.

[casear2727]

(12-18-2022, 05:48 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: One of Kansas City's OLB in a 3-4 scheme Darius Harris is 6'2 230-lbs, ADG is 6'2 228-lbs;

Seriously?  KC runs a 4-3, not a 3-4. They have true DE's just like us.  Clark, Dunlap, Karlaftis... all DEs.  Spags is actually known for his 4-3 defense....

Its obvious you struggle with defensive schemes, BUT, we now have 2 defensive ends out and there is a guy available you may love...

Terrell Lewis, 6-5, 254 only 24 yrs old, former 3rd rounder cut by the Rams on Thursday... he is a standard 3-4 OLB, that may benefit by putting his hand on the ground at Edge...?
 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

BTW, Ossai did well in filling in for Trey yesterday...

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-19-2022, 03:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Terrell Lewis, 6-5, 254 only 24 yrs old, former 3rd rounder cut by the Rams on Thursday... he is a standard 3-4 OLB, that may benefit by putting his hand on the ground at Edge...?
 

Do we have the cap space to sign this guy?  It's also looking like we may need to find a CB out on the free market. We may need to cut a few like Scharping and/or Carmen to free up some cash.  
   
If not, we have Owen Carney on the practice squad at 6'3 275, and played his college career as an OLB/edge rusher and was timed at a 4.78/40 at the combine.  Also, former GIANT DE Raymond Johnson III is available on the practice squad.

Hilton and Jalen Davis will be back, but Tre Flowers really showed me he can play the position so I think we'll be OK at CB against NE.

[casear2727]

(12-20-2022, 12:40 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Do we have the cap space to sign this guy?  It's also looking like we may need to find a CB out on the free market. We may need to cut a few like Scharping and/or Carmen to free up some cash.  
   
If not, we have Owen Carney on the practice squad at 6'3 275, and played his college career as an OLB/edge rusher and was timed at a 4.78/40 at the combine.  Also, former GIANT DE Raymond Johnson III is available on the practice squad.

Hilton and Jalen Davis will be back, but Tre Flowers really showed me he can play the position so I think we'll be OK at CB against NE.

We can definitely afford him... guy only makes 1M for the year.  We could sign him today and pay him for just 3 games.  

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-20-2022, 12:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We can definitely afford him... guy only makes 1M for the year.  We could sign him today and pay him for just 3 games.  

Then let's do it and pick up either Richard Sherman or Malcolm Butler as well.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-20-2022, 04:05 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Then let's do it and pick up either Richard Sherman or Malcolm Butler as well.  

Are you serious?

[TheFan]

(12-20-2022, 04:05 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Then let's do it and pick up either Richard Sherman or Malcolm Butler as well.  

What time machine did you just come out of?