Why does coaching get a pass?

[*bfine32*]

(02-02-2023, 08:43 AM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Except Taylor calls the plays so the OC doesn't have that big of an impact

My apologies, you're new, Welcome aboard.

There's a very good chance I may not be serious. I was one of about 4 people on this board who wanted to keep Zac after year 2. 

[coachmcneil71]

I'm glad that you posted this. One thing that has been wearing me out, especially this season, is the notion that 2nd and short is a down to "take a shot"? I understand the rational, but I have watched it cost several teams wins this season.

I know that someone has brought this up (didn't read the entire thread). That late drive where Mixon went for 8 on first down and then we went deep twice. I was livid! We had plenty of time and timeouts. Ignorant, ignorant play calling.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-02-2023, 08:43 AM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Except Taylor calls the plays so the OC doesn't have that big of an impact

This is a myth. 

The play calling is a collaborative effort between the OC, ZT, and Burrow. 

Burrow goes to the huddle with 3 plays he can choose from. ZT doesn't have his hands on the play calling as much as some of us would like to think. 

Honestly, I think next year is the year where Burrow gets free reign of the play calling. They have hinted to it this year and I think it's only a matter of time before like 95% of it is on Joe.

[Ell Prez]

(01-30-2023, 01:23 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: I think people over analyze a lot after losses to blame whoever they want.

That’s said, the 2nd and 3 and 3rd and 3 both being deep shots was and is mind boggling. We needed to run a 7 minute offense at that point. Instead we are going for low percentage deep throws. Burrow shoulders some of that blame too. Pick up the first and dink and dunk down the field.

i don’t blame coaches. They didn’t call for 4 vertical routes. Blame us partly Burrow and the main part is KC blanketed our receivers. No one was open so Burrow took a shot deep. Perhaps it should have been a shot to the intermediate route. Taylor didn’t make the throw, Burrow did

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2023, 10:39 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I agree that some of his concepts work and our good. That's why I think if we brought in an OC we should have Taylor work with him and really just add to the offense. I think Taylor not only struggles to plan for the best defenders he struggles with situational football. I get how close we've been people think we just need to tweak a couple of things. But the defense is probably gonna take a hit and the offense will need to be even better. I'm just not seeing the kind of learning from Taylor that I would hope for.

For me, the salve to that is having Burrow protected better. He's proven time and again that if you give him just a little bit of time, he can carve you up. The problem in the SB and AFCCG were that he was under too much quick pressure. Mahomes had many instances of standing back there, waiting for one of his guys to come open after their routes were run. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2023, 01:22 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I'm glad that you posted this. One thing that has been wearing me out, especially this season, is the notion that 2nd and short is a down to "take a shot"? I understand the rational, but I have watched it cost several teams wins this season.

I know that someone has brought this up (didn't read the entire thread). That late drive where Mixon went for 8 on first down and then we went deep twice. I was livid! We had plenty of time and timeouts. Ignorant, ignorant play calling.

The ignorance of the play calling is directly proportionate to the success of the play. 

Did you think the deep shot to Chase was a good play call on 4th and 6?

[*Go Cards*]

(02-02-2023, 01:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The ignorance of the play calling is directly proportionate to the success of the play. 

Did you think the deep shot to Chase was a good play call on 4th and 6?

I did not per he had a defender overtop of him and one below him. Luckily Chase made a spectacular catch to keep it alive. Although I do agree with going for it on the 4th and 6. 

If its open go for it, but none of the 3 mentioned were open at all and exactly why it took an incredible catch just to complete 33% of those 3 throws. 

Not hating on the Bengals and Burrow did not have much time to make these decisions per the O-line. So its not a huge deal to me. 

[coachmcneil71]

(02-02-2023, 01:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The ignorance of the play calling is directly proportionate to the success of the play. 

Did you think the deep shot to Chase was a good play call on 4th and 6?

That's apples and oranges, brother. A play call on second down is completely different than one called for fourth. In that scenario they should have taken the first down, kept the ball away from KC, and keep driving for the GW FG while milking the clock. Two terrible calls in and row, then and now. We had control of the game at that point. After the two incomplete passes and punt, they had the control.

Of course, fans loved the gutsy play on 4th, but it was needed at that point. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2023, 02:02 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: That's apples and oranges, brother. A play call on second down is completely different than one called for fourth. In that scenario they should have taken the first down, kept the ball away from KC, and keep driving for the GW FG while milking the clock. Two terrible calls in and row, then and now. We had control of the game at that point. After the two incomplete passes and punt, they had the control.

Of course, fans loved the gutsy play on 4th, but it was needed at that point. 

I would definitely agree that 2 deep shots, in that moment, was too much. I'm not sure who is at fault--play call or audible--but i trust Burrow throwing deep to Chase and Higgins anytime. 

You know what they say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. 

[SunsetBengal]

(02-02-2023, 02:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I would definitely agree that 2 deep shots, in that moment, was too much. I'm not sure who is at fault--play call or audible--but i trust Burrow throwing deep to Chase and Higgins anytime. 

You know what they say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. 

Taking a deep shot on 2nd and short is a great idea, until it becomes a tendency, as then it is anticipated and therefore much easier to defend.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2023, 02:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Taking a deep shot on 2nd and short is a great idea, until it becomes a tendency, as then it is anticipated and therefore much easier to defend.

Yep. In that situation, you have to understand the defense wants nothing to do with getting beat deep. 

Keep matriculating the ball down the field, fellas. 

[THE PISTONS]

(02-02-2023, 01:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The ignorance of the play calling is directly proportionate to the success of the play. 

Did you think the deep shot to Chase was a good play call on 4th and 6?

This. If a play works, fans thing it was a great call. If it fails, it was bad.

Complaining about 'playcalling' isn't accurate anyways. There are many other nuances. Play design. Gameplanning. Scouting. Defensive adjustments. Offensive adjustments.

Like the Chiefs shifted their line to put guys over our tackles. The Bengals did a sneak right up the middle which was perfect.

[Soonerpeace]

KC was down several in their secondary due to injuries in the game. I’d expect Zac or Joe liked the matchup. Joe makes no bones his confidence in JaMar. Tee’s also a physical mismatch. I would have loved playing KC minus their 2 tackles and RG.

[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 01:22 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I'm glad that you posted this. One thing that has been wearing me out, especially this season, is the notion that 2nd and short is a down to "take a shot"? I understand the rational, but I have watched it cost several teams wins this season.

I know that someone has brought this up (didn't read the entire thread). That late drive where Mixon went for 8 on first down and then we went deep twice. I was livid! We had plenty of time and timeouts. Ignorant, ignorant play calling.

(02-02-2023, 02:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Taking a deep shot on 2nd and short is a great idea, until it becomes a tendency, as then it is anticipated and therefore much easier to defend.

Unless we see all verticals, the deep option is most likely Burrow's decision.  We simply have to live with this, we needed 1 yd on 4th down in the SB and Joe wanted to go deep to Chase.  I think that is just our guy, we certainly won't be having the Kirk Cousins complaints of throwing short of the sticks too often....

[Mike M (the other one)]

I blame Joe for putting too much trust in his RT/RG.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-02-2023, 03:37 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Unless we see all verticals, the deep option is most likely Burrow's decision.  We simply have to live with this, we needed 1 yd on 4th down in the SB and Joe wanted to go deep to Chase.  I think that is just our guy, we certainly won't be having the Kirk Cousins complaints of throwing short of the sticks too often....

How I lost SB 49! Memoirs from Pete Carroll....

Mixon just ripped off an eight-yard run falling forward. I think the man deserved another carry after that run. Instead, he got a deep ball incomplete, then had to come off of the field for Perine on third down, where he witnessed another deep incomplete pass. Sorry man, but you got to run it there. It's not even questionable. 

[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 07:17 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: How I lost SB 49! Memoirs from HC Pete Carroll....

Mixon just ripped off an eight-yard run falling forward. I think the man deserved another carry after that run. Instead, he got a deep ball incomplete, then had to come off of the field for Perine on third down, where he witnessed another deep incomplete pass. Sorry man, but you got to run it there. It's not even questionable. 

I'm not disagreeing, just saying Burrow has a lot of autonomy when it comes to audibles or even changing the call.  It could have been Zac, but Joe is much less conservative.