The AFC just got a little more tough

[Bengalbug]

(01-31-2023, 11:35 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ll play he had Drew Brees. No Brees ? Not so good. But he is a good coach. But I don’t know if he turns it around. I think LAC has finally turned it around.

Brees coming off a bad shoulder injury where his career was uncertain. The same drew Brees that was so bad initially that the chargers drafted Philip rivers and let him walk. The same drew Brees that was option 2, behind culpepper for the saints.

Payton made Brees better, Brees made Payton better. Perfect coach/qb duo. Without Payton, Brees might not be a HOFer.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-01-2023, 12:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Win 1 and then done Peyton.


Yeah, they need this to work and they are banking on Hackett being the worst coach ever.  Can't really knock them for shooting for Rodgers then settling for spending way too much for Wilson seeing as they've had zero QB luck in a long time.

Actually, it's worse than I thought.  For 20 years they've had Jake Plummer, the Jay Cutler fiasco, Kyle Orton, and Tim Tebow, to go with a slew of young guys who didn't do anything.  Like the Cardinals, they've had no luck with QBs under the age of 35 after starting Jake Plummer....interesting.

So the Cardinals and Broncos both start Jake Plummer for multiple seasons and then go on a multi-decade crusade where they can't find success with any QBs under the age of 35.  What a curse.

Everyone thinks Elway has done a good job, but really he just lucked into winning the Peyton sweepstakes. Other than that, it's been rough since Elway retired as a player. Funny thing about Plummer is I remember him getting a lot of undeserved hype in AZ.

He was decent in Denver, but when your best QB of the last quarter century is a guy like Plummer, that's Bears level bad. Which is funny, cuz the Bears were the ones who couldn't wait to take Cutler off the Broncos' hands.

[Bengalbug]

(01-31-2023, 11:45 PM)The American Dream Wrote: Good coach but still has a washed up QB.

I think it was just a (really) bad fit, with way to high of expectations.

I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the best qbs of the last decade forgot how to play football.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn it around.

[*Nately120*]

(02-01-2023, 12:55 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Everyone thinks Elway has done a good job, but really he just lucked into winning the Peyton sweepstakes. Other than that, it's been rough since Elway retired as a player. Funny thing about Plummer is I remember him getting a lot of undeserved hype in AZ.

He was decent in Denver, but when your best QB of the last quarter century is a guy like Plummer, that's Bears level bad. Which is funny, cuz the Bears were the ones who couldn't wait to take Cutler off the Broncos' hands.

I remember when Peyton Manning was on the market we had a poll on the old board on if we wanted him here and the general consensus was that we wanted to stick with Dalton (this would have been going into his second season), and that ol' fivehead was one hit away from the retirement home.

And I can see why the Bears traded for Cutler given their lack of developing a QB, but lordy...their passing TD record is still 29 TDs from Erik Kramer in the 1995 season.  That's impossibly bad.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-01-2023, 12:55 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Brees coming off a bad shoulder injury where his career was uncertain. The same drew Brees that was so bad initially that the chargers drafted Philip rivers and let him walk. The same drew Brees that was option 2, behind culpepper for the saints.

Payton made Brees better, Brees made Payton better. Perfect coach/qb duo. Without Payton, Brees might not be a HOFer.

Well first off I think that Sean Payton is an excellent coach. Bill Belichick is a hell of a coach but w/o Brady for his long career he’s not ,500. Bill Parcell’s at Dallas? Nick Saban at Miami? But I don’t disagree with your premise. A good QB coach and offensive minded head coach will help even good QB’s. Denver will be better but boy they’ve given up a lot.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-01-2023, 01:01 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I remember when Peyton Manning was on the market we had a poll on the old board on if we wanted him here and the general consensus was that we wanted to stick with Dalton (this would have been going into his second season), and that ol' fivehead was one hit away from the retirement home.

And I can see why the Bears traded for Cutler given their lack of developing a QB, but lordy...their passing TD record is still 29 TDs from Erik Kramer in the 1995 season.  That's impossibly bad.

I remember that poll. I was one of the only people arguing in favor of going after Peyton. Me. The supposed Dalton lover. It was great. I just think if you have a crack at a real generational QB, you always go for it.

I always lumped Erik Kramer in with Scott Mitchell. Both were mediocre to terrible their entire careers, yet had one season where they posted Pro Bowl numbers out of nowhere. Both in the NFC Central in the mid-90s.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2023, 12:58 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I think it was just a (really) bad fit, with way to high of expectations.

I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the best qbs of the last decade forgot how to play football.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn it around.

Only Brady beats father time......I don't think he forgot how, I think the age thing is creeping in.

[Bengalbug]

(02-01-2023, 03:32 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Only Brady beats father time......I don't think he forgot how, I think the age thing is creeping in.

Wilson is only 34. By the same token I guess we think Matt stafford is washed only one year removed from a SB?

I thought Russ would likely be in the MVp conversation this year and I was way off. That said, I feel like I’m pretty smart when it comes to football and I just don’t see a guy who completely lost it all- physically. I think he bounces back. He may not be an MVP, but broncos will win double digit games this year. You can book it.

[Ravage]

(01-31-2023, 10:57 PM)Trademark Wrote: Broncos got Sean Payton, he's a great coach and will turn around the Broncos, the AFC just got a little more difficult

I disagree, the AFC as a whole just got easier, the AFC West got harder. The harder it is for KC to just pound on the rest of the AFC West, the easier the overall AFC becomes for the rest of the conference. Like it or not, Arrowhead is a factor, just like PBS/Paycor is for the Bengals now. Let KC get to the Super Bowl having to play on the road for once. The last time the Chiefs even PLAYED a road playoff game (excluding Super Bowls) was 2015...17 Chiefs playoff games ago (including the upcoming Super Bowl).

I get the sentiment that the Broncos should improve and thus things are tougher. However, Denver doesn't really have much left as far as top of the draft assets until 2025, they've only got an estimated 9.5 mil in cap room to play with (before cuts), they have a 34 year old QB who had a brutally bad season in his first year out of Seattle, and other than Surtain & Jeudy the roster isn't exactly teeming with young high-end talent. Denver's got talent on the roster, but it's largely veterans rapidly approaching or who are already over 30, and unless they shock the world and make the playoffs next year, they're not the Bengals problem to deal with until they come to town in 2024. 

The Broncos new ownership has all the money, and I'm sure they're going to just keep on spending it, but how much they'll reasonably be able to do in one off-season with (currently) no 1st or 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft and less than 10 mil in cap space before cuts, is a legitimate question. The Broncos traded a ton to get Russ, then went and traded a bunch to get Payton. They're going to have a hell of a hard time re-stocking the roster for the next couple years unless they auction off what remaining assets they have left to stock up on picks and completely re-build around...a 34 year old mobile QB... 

I sincerely hope the Broncos (and the Raiders for that matter) fix their issues and return to being competitive. A loaded AFC West beats itself up and that's a good thing for a Bengals team that has aspirations for the #1 seed and a return to the Super Bowl. I've seen enough from this Bengals team that I feel good about their chances against anyone, Payton/Russ included.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2023, 08:24 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Wilson is only 34.  By the same token I guess we think Matt stafford is washed only one year removed from a SB?

I thought Russ would likely be in the MVp conversation this year and I was way off.  That said, I feel like I’m pretty smart when it comes to football and I just don’t see a guy who completely lost it all- physically.  I think he bounces back.  He may not be an MVP, but broncos will win double digit games this year. You can book it.

There's a difference there, Stafford is a pure pocket passer, and Russ has always relied on his scrambling ability. There's a chance his legs are slowing down a bit at 34. Most people do. You could be right though, I'm not gonna plant a flag and say I'm right, lol.  If they do win double digits, that should help unseat KC as the one seed. If we take care of business, we could wind up with it.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-01-2023, 10:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: There's a difference there, Stafford is a pure pocket passer, and Russ has always relied on his scrambling ability. There's a chance his legs are slowing down a bit at 34. Most people do. You could be right though, I'm not gonna plant a flag and say I'm right, lol.  If they do win double digits, that should help unseat KC as the one seed. If we take care of business, we could wind up with it.

And not everybody is Brady. Who's to say if Wilson may have to hang it up at 37? 

But I'm with you hoping he can but a dent in KC's armor. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2023, 11:02 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And not everybody is Brady. Who's to say if Wilson may have to hang it up at 37? 

But I'm with you hoping he can but a dent in KC's armor. 

Absolutely!

[Bengalbug]

(02-01-2023, 10:54 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: There's a difference there, Stafford is a pure pocket passer, and Russ has always relied on his scrambling ability. There's a chance his legs are slowing down a bit at 34. Most people do. You could be right though, I'm not gonna plant a flag and say I'm right, lol.  If they do win double digits, that should help unseat KC as the one seed. If we take care of business, we could wind up with it.

I think Russ had to be a scrambler because of his bad OL his whole career. Russ is a good passer, proven by his success since he came in the league. I guess we will see, and I’m glad the bengals are not in the broncos position of mortgaging the future for an older qb and coach.

Three firsts and seconds (and more)… if they don’t sniff a championship what a colossal failure.

[XenoMorph]

(01-31-2023, 10:57 PM)Trademark Wrote: Broncos got Sean Payton, he's a great coach and will turn around the Broncos, the AFC just got a little more difficult

But Russ is Done....   Sean gonna be handcuffed there