Respecting the competition: Dodgers finally retire Fernando Valenzuela's number

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Yeah, I know that this is a Reds board but if you lived through Fernandomania, it was awesome to watch even as a division opponent. He was just killing right handed batters with his top of the game screwball. In the strike shortened 1981 season, his true rookie year, he was amazing leading the league with 25 starts and 11 of those were complete games along with 8 shutouts. In 1986, he led the league with 21 wins and completed 20 of 34 starts. He wound up finishing with 113 complete games and 31 shutouts for his career along with a 3.54 ERA while losing his blazing fastball for the last 2/3 of his career.

Here's his yearly ERA with the Dodgers starting with his call up in 1980 - * denotes All Star season
0.00 - 10 games in relief - 17.2 innings pitched - 4 games finished - 1 save
2.48*
2.87*
3.75*
3.03*
2.45*
3.14*
3.98
4.24
3.43
4.59
-----
3.31 career ERA with the Dodgers from 1980-1990 - 141-116 record as a Dodger
2 Silver slugger awards with 10 HRs while hitting .200 for his career
1981 Cy Young winner, Rookie Of The Year winner along with World Series champion
Six straight All Star games, 1981-1986

"Sometimes, you just gotta tip your hat and give credit to the opponent."
I don't know who first said that, but it taught me a lot as a competitor when I was a kid and that's pretty much all that this is.

Congratulations, Fernando.
https://www.mlb.com/news/dodgers-to-retire-fernando-valenzuelas-number

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Before my time, but looking back stat-wise it seems like a real weak case for a retired number.

His ERA+ as a Dodger is 107, as in just 7% above league average. He's nowhere close to being a HoF player, either, lasting just 2 years on the ballot before being dropped.

Had a couple dominant years, but I feel like if you're saying "nobody can ever wear this number again for this team in honor of this guy" it should really be next level performance. Or perhaps huge off-field meaning? Did he do something incredibly noteworthy off the field?

[TecmoBengals]

(02-09-2023, 12:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Before my time, but looking back stat-wise it seems like a real weak case for a retired number.

His ERA+ as a Dodger is 107, as in just 7% above league average. He's nowhere close to being a HoF player, either, lasting just 2 years on the ballot before being dropped.

Had a couple dominant years, but I feel like if you're saying "nobody can ever wear this number again for this team in honor of this guy" it should really be next level performance. Or perhaps huge off-field meaning? Did he do something incredibly noteworthy off the field?

On the field he has the highest wins above replacement of any Mexican-born MLB player & he is the only player to ever win the Cy Young and ROY in the same season.

I think the jersey retirement is about his accomplishments as a Mexican-born player. 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-09-2023, 12:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Before my time, but looking back stat-wise it seems like a real weak case for a retired number.

His ERA+ as a Dodger is 107, as in just 7% above league average. He's nowhere close to being a HoF player, either, lasting just 2 years on the ballot before being dropped.

Had a couple dominant years, but I feel like if you're saying "nobody can ever wear this number again for this team in honor of this guy" it should really be next level performance. Or perhaps huge off-field meaning? Did he do something incredibly noteworthy off the field?

Pretty much what Tecmo said. The Reds sucked most of the early 80s until Pete Rose became manager, but he was a division opponent that Cincy faced regularly. Dodgers vs Reds was always a big deal but Fernandomania took it to another level. Try explaining the buzz about Tim Tebow to someone 30 years from now. The difference was that Fernando was very good. He started the 1981 season 8-0 with a 0.50 ERA and five shutouts when the players strike happened. He finished a mortal 5-7 in the second half but went 3-1 in the post season to help the Dodgers finally get over the hump against the Yankees after two previously failed attempts in the World Series.

The Reds got hosed that year. They had the best record in the National League but since they split the season in two, the Reds finished 2nd in each half and missed out of the playoffs. That was The Big Red Machine dying it's last gasp on a technicality as the next season, they completely fell off of the cliff with their first ever 100 loss season and their only one until last season's pathetic Reds team made it a total of TWO Reds teams with 100 losses. 

(02-09-2023, 02:41 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: On the field he has the highest wins above replacement of any Mexican-born MLB player & he is the only player to ever win the Cy Young and ROY in the same season.

I think the jersey retirement is about his accomplishments as a Mexican-born player. 

Yeah, his impact on the Dodgers Hispanic fanbase is huge.

Trying to reference with a recent Reds ace, these are Luis Castillo's yearly ERA with the Reds. One big similarity is that they both had a tremendous second pitch(change up/screwball) that looked exactly like the release of their fastball, thus both of them were often making some of the best hitters to ever play the game look very, very foolish.
3.12
4.30
3.40
3.21
3.98
2.86

3.62 with a 44-53 record with one complete game(totally different era)
2.97 with a 97-68 record with 84 complete games and 26 shutouts for Fernando in his first six seasons for a team battling for a pennant
3.31 with a 141-116 record as a Dodger and that ERA includes his last four seasons after his shoulder injury

Again, just trying to give it some modern perspective, but he was better than Luis Castillo, pitched in many big games for the Dodgers and was a heck of a hitter(just read on wiki that he was a career .368 pinch hitter going 7 for 19). Add in that he was a cultural icon with a body shape that DID NOT look athletic at all and he was a superstar in the right place at the right time.