What Is Even The Point?

[Destro]

(02-14-2023, 03:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If the game is close enough, and there is opportunity to throw a flag that can produce the desired outcome, the league may instruct refs to do so.

And that is something I do not believe. There would be dead bodies and federal agents if it was ever found out. No one is doing that. 


If someone believes that, then the Bengals got to the Super Bowl with the league influencing games, so can't pick and choose when it is a good or bad thing. 

Goodell suspends Brady and has to hand him the SB trophy like a schmuck. Perennial laughing stock and small market Bengals end up in the SB against a team from LA, where they rather watch Lebron flop if they are absolutely forced to watch sports. The amazing Bills story falls flat for the same Bengals who 'could' have had a block in the back if they wanted them to be screwed the week before. The biggest fan bases and biggest TV draws in the NFL have not sniffed being in a SB in forever.

If they wanted to screw the Eagles, there were several times to do so that didn't happen. They only rushed four most of the game, Hurts fumbled a scoop and score and the punt coverage team played flag football. That is how the Eagles lost. Oh, and the guy did hold on that play. No grab, no flag. Refs lost their shot, huh?

If no call, the Chiefs kick the FG and the Eagles have 1:30 or so and no timeouts. I don't think that they get anywhere. 

If people really think it is so influence by the league making decisions, no sense in watching anymore. Just watch wrestling. At least they have women rolling around and stuff. 

Those who say it is scripted ( yes, there is people saying it ) the latest conspiracy theory has the Bengals winning the Super Bowl next year. So stick around for that. Don't get too proud though, since it was predetermined by the NFL. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2023, 04:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It doesn't matter if it was a hold or not. What matters if the refs call a game loose for 58 minutes, then throw a ticky tack flag to skew the end of the game. Either be picky with the flags, or let them play, just don't change it with 2 minutes left in the game. They did the same thing last year to us.

That is true, at very least be consistent which is all most ask.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-14-2023, 04:09 PM)Destro Wrote: And that is something I do not believe. There would be dead bodies and federal agents if it was ever found out. No one is doing that. 


If someone believes that, then the Bengals got to the Super Bowl with the league influencing games, so can't pick and choose when it is a good or bad thing. 

Goodell suspends Brady and has to hand him the SB trophy like a schmuck. Perennial laughing stock and small market Bengals end up in the SB against a team from LA, where they rather watch Lebron flop if they are absolutely forced to watch sports. The amazing Bills story falls flat for the same Bengals who 'could' have had a block in the back if they wanted them to be screwed the week before. The biggest fan bases and biggest TV draws in the NFL have not sniffed being in a SB in forever.

If they wanted to screw the Eagles, there were several times to do so that didn't happen. They only rushed four most of the game, Hurts fumbled a scoop and score and the punt coverage team played flag football. That is how the Eagles lost. Oh, and the guy did hold on that play. No grab, no flag. Refs lost their shot, huh?

If no call, the Chiefs kick the FG and the Eagles have 1:30 or so and no timeouts. I don't think that they get anywhere. 

If people really think it is so influence by the league making decisions, no sense in watching anymore. Just watch wrestling. At least they have women rolling around and stuff. 

Those who say it is scripted ( yes, there is people saying it ) the latest conspiracy theory has the Bengals winning the Super Bowl next year. So stick around for that. Don't get too proud though, since it was predetermined by the NFL. 

1. Anytime money is on the line, corruption is possible. We've had shadier situations happen with our own government. To think a sports league is definitely incapable of the same is naive, imo.

2. Tim Donaghy.

3. There's many ways a league could have some corruption with very few people knowing or admitting. One way would be to have one crew that you use for certain games.

4. The Bengals might enjoy such favor at some point. If we win a SB on such a call, I'd be willing to admit if it doesn't look right.

5. Wrestling is entirely scripted. Very few people are saying the entire league is scripted, with everyone involved. The vast majority are saying it's only the refs and only some games are influenced.

If this actually occurs, it will only happen when the game is close enough for a ref to affect the game with a timely flag and will also only happen when the league has something specific it wants to accomplish.

Such as getting more butts in the seats in LA, or enhancing the star of Pat Mahomes when he's playing in State Farm stadium.

I don't always think the NFL has a specific agenda. To be clear, I'm also very open to none of this being the case. 

I just try to keep my mind open. That said, when these calls happen in back to back weeks and it happens to be a very good outcome for the league, it does get me questioning more than I normally do.

[Destro]

Congress has been in the NFL booty for awhile. Even a hint and they’d have people brought up on charges..just like that one official was. Plus, if I bet $2 million on a game and I found out someone did something to skew the outcome, crabs would be eating. Sometimes teams can commit a foul and get penalized for it. Not a JFK movie type of thing.

If Chase was held like that, and there was no flag, some of the same people would be calling it rigged. But since it was called and the decision is we have to hate KC, it is ticky tack for late in the game. I try to be objective. Just like that Chase catch was not a TD. Yeah, and I hate JuJu. Was the right call. No I’ll intent on my mind.

I just happen to believe things can actually happen with no nefarious deeds afoot.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-14-2023, 05:07 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: That play was holding.  The player even admitted that it was holding.  I wish that they'd call that play holding each and every time.  The problem that I have is a complete lack of consistency.  You have scenarios like where the Legion of Boom would come out and brag about how they knew that the refs wouldn't call holding or PI on every play so they would intentionally go over the line multiple plays in a row.  You have stuff like Ryan Shazier being allowed to spear with the crown of his helmet or Aaron Donald being allowed to line up in the neutral zone for no reason.  Tom Brady would draw flags on legal sacks for no reason other than he was a fossil who was too old to be taking hits from pro football players.  The AFCCG and the Super Bowl barely registered on my fishiness meter.  Bad spot and sketchy intentional grounding and all.  People who watch this product ought to be used to it.  If the NFL wants to skew things one way or another in order to produce their desired outcome, they can do this legally with no recourse.    

Yep. It wasn't even questionable. 

[Sled21]

(02-14-2023, 07:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. It wasn't even questionable. 

And it's not the point. Ossai hit Mahomes out of bounds clear as day. I don't have a probem in the world with that call, what I have a problem with is them not flagging the chiefs for an even later hit out of bounds on Mixon. Flagging Burrow for grounding, then not flagging Mahomes for the same action. All I want is a game called fairly and straight across the board. I don't care if they call it tight, or let them play. Just don't go out there with two sets of rules, and don't be changing the way you are calling the game 59 minutes into it. Is that too much to ask?

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-14-2023, 09:52 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And it's not the point. Ossai hit Mahomes out of bounds clear as day. I don't have a probem in the world with that call, what I have a problem with is them not flagging the chiefs for an even later hit out of bounds on Mixon. Flagging Burrow for grounding, then not flagging Mahomes for the same action. All I want is a game called fairly and straight across the board. I don't care if they call it tight, or let them play. Just don't go out there with two sets of rules, and don't be changing the way you are calling the game 59 minutes into it. Is that too much to ask?

With NFL referees, and honestly referees in general--in my experience--yes, it's a lot to ask, sadly. 

[Tomkat]

(02-14-2023, 06:59 PM)Destro Wrote: Even a hint and they’d have people brought up on charges..

Nope.  The NFL could outright rig games, if they so choose.

https://americansportsplanet.com/are-nfl-games-rigged-heres-the-truth/



"Close games enhance the excitement and drama and result in more betting viewers. The NFL and its gambling partners bank on millions of people watching and placing bets on their games. It’s funny how much closer the score lines have grown when you compare the first half of Super Bowls and those post 9/11:

• Superbowl 1-35: Only 9 games were decided by a touchdown or less, and only 2 games had been decided by a single field goal or less – the average win was by 16.7 points (or more than 2 touchdowns.)
  
• Superbowl 36-51: A whopping 10 out of 16 games have been decided by a single touchdown or less, 5 came down to a field goal or less – the average win was by 8.7 points."
  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-15-2023, 10:35 AM)Tomkat Wrote: Nope.  The NFL could outright rig games, if they so choose.

https://americansportsplanet.com/are-nfl-games-rigged-heres-the-truth/



"Close games enhance the excitement and drama and result in more betting viewers. The NFL and its gambling partners bank on millions of people watching and placing bets on their games. It’s funny how much closer the score lines have grown when you compare the first half of Super Bowls and those post 9/11:

• Superbowl 1-35: Only 9 games were decided by a touchdown or less, and only 2 games had been decided by a single field goal or less – the average win was by 16.7 points (or more than 2 touchdowns.)
  
• Superbowl 36-51: A whopping 10 out of 16 games have been decided by a single touchdown or less, 5 came down to a field goal or less – the average win was by 8.7 points."
  

I'm under the "the NFL plays favorites and refs have biases, either instructed or innate" category of this debate. I think the whole script nonsense is just a way to distract from the fact that there are issues by painting it in a goofy light.

That said, the whole Super Bowl point that article seems to be trying to make? It's ignoring a really important thing that happened in the mid-late 90s. Teams had to be built under a salary cap and free agency became a thing. The America's Team Cowboys were the last dominant roster built without having to worry about a salary cap.

Think of all the good players who change teams in FA every year now because of cap reasons. Those guys would stay on their team in the past and that team would just keep getting better, and that led to the blowouts. Significantly more talent disparity than the NFL has today.

[Tomkat]

(02-15-2023, 12:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think the whole script nonsense is just...

Yea, I don't believe games can be scripted play-by-play, etc
But I definitely believe the NFL plays favorites, and the refs pick up on it.

[Sled21]

(02-15-2023, 12:30 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Yea, I don't believe games can be scripted play-by-play, etc
But I definitely believe the NFL plays favorites, and the refs pick up on it.

Right, but I'm all for people spreading the story the league is rigged. The more people talk about it, the more the NFL will have to pay attention and fix the problem.

[Destro]

And how do these close game stats compare to all NFL games? Wow, so the best two teams playing each other doesn't feature many blow outs. Earth shattering.

If they are that rigged, people who believe that are stupid for getting so emotional over the outcome. If they are not, then stupid for believing in the conspiracy. All this stuff does is show there are a lot of stupid people.....but we kind have seen this already, haven't we?

[Tomkat]

(02-15-2023, 01:48 PM)Destro Wrote: And how do these close game stats compare to all NFL games? Wow, so the best two teams playing each other doesn't feature many blow outs. Earth shattering.

If they are that rigged, people who believe that are stupid for getting so emotional over the outcome. If they are not, then stupid for believing in the conspiracy. All this stuff does is show there are a lot of stupid people.....but we kind have seen this already, haven't we?

Dude, you're not the final authority on this.   People are allowed to discuss it.  You'd have to be either blind or naive to not see something looks fishy.
Even if it's really not... the appearance of impropriety is bad enough that it needs addressed.

[Destro]

(02-15-2023, 02:29 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Dude, you're not the final authority on this.   People are allowed to discuss it.  You'd have to be either blind or naive to not see something looks fishy.
Even if it's really not... the appearance of impropriety is bad enough that it needs addressed.

YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!

Anyway, feel how you want. I'm not worried about it. 
   

[TheUberHuber]

(02-14-2023, 07:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. It wasn't even questionable. 

It wasn't a catchable ball, and it was questioned. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-16-2023, 03:32 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: It wasn't a catchable ball, and it was questioned. 

Defensive holding, by rule, is a foul that occurs before the pass is thrown. 5 yards, automatic first down. Uncatchable isn't even part of the equation. 

DPI is a foul that occurs after the ball is thrown and then there is a question about whether the ball is catchable and it's a spot foul.

It was called defensive holding. 

No question.