Super Bowl Observation and how it pertains to the Bengals.

[samhain]

Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so. I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball. The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game. KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently. When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC. The team was at their peak IMO. Mixon was out. Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy. Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.

Bottom line: A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has. Recall the Buffalo playoff game. The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance. This time it was Mixon getting the carries.

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title. Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut. The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

[*Go Cards*]

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Agree and many of us said this last year and had to argue nonstop with few of the analytical posters claiming otherwise lol.

But believe the Bengals did try and achieve this while adding 3 new O-linemen all of whose strengths were run blocking even. Took longer than we thought to gel as a unit and when they did the injuries set in. just didn't completely pan out this year. 

Everything starts with the O-line in my book and we have good building blocks in Karras and Cappa already with Volson and Jackson Carman looking promising. Maybe Jonah gets healthy and back to his old ways as well. 

Think with one really nice addition at RT in either the draft or FA the O-line could be really solid this year. Could use some fresh legs at RB as well.

[*michaelsean*]

There is no doubt the run game in the 2nd half won the Super Bowl.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Completely agree.  I don't think KC has the season they do at all if not for Pacheco.  A better running game will help to take some hits off Burrow as well.   I shared a post about some IOLs and potentially moving Volson to RT.  A bruiser inside on each side of Karras could go a long way to improving the run game.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-18-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree.  I don't think KC has the season they do at all if not for Pacheco.  A better running game will help to take some hits off Burrow as well.   I shared a post about some IOLs and potentially moving Volson to RT.  A bruiser inside on each side of Karras could go a long way to improving the run game.  

Yup

IMHO we have to upgrade the Oline this off season, have to !! We're a better Oline away from the big trophy. And to be quite honest I believe we're better off without Mixon.

[samhain]

(02-18-2023, 11:18 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup

IMHO we have to upgrade the Oline this off season, have to !! We're a better Oline away from the big trophy. And to be quite honest I believe we're better off without Mixon.

Exactly.  

No idea how they do it, but they must.  

At first glance it looks like the line is set if both Williams and Carman start at tackle, then Cappa, Karras, an Volson round out the interior.  I'm just not sure that's good enough for a team that's basically in it's final year of being able to load up for a title run with the impending cap changes in mind.  

I think it comes down to Carman and Volson, and how much they trust them.  I like Volson and feel like he could develop into an upper tier guard.  Carman played well when needed, but it's difficult to trust the guy.  The you have average Jonah eating up 12 mil in cap space.  

In any other year, I'd say you ride it out and let things develop, but this is different.  The Bengals are a top 3-5 team heading into the 2023 season.  I wouldn't blame them for being impatient and upgrading to ensure that the line gets shored up.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-18-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree.  I don't think KC has the season they do at all if not for Pacheco.  A better running game will help to take some hits off Burrow as well.   I shared a post about some IOLs and potentially moving Volson to RT.  A bruiser inside on each side of Karras could go a long way to improving the run game.  

The run game has to get better. The OL has to get better. KC’s OL is the reason for Pachecos success. You put Mixon behind the KC’s line he’s all world. Mixon isn’t some hot and cold back. His great games are directly related to his OL play. Cappa Karrass and Volson can run block. Carman looked awfully good at left tackle ( for him lol). I’ve said this elsewhere. I’d swap picks with Detroit (18) and give up our second rounder and draft a top tackle. Sure we didn’t protect well vs KC but we lost on an uncharacteristic punt return and personal foul resulting in a last second 3 point loss. I say take away 3 KC OL starters and see how Pacheco does.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-18-2023, 01:17 PM)samhain Wrote: Exactly.  

No idea how they do it, but they must.  

At first glance it looks like the line is set if both Williams and Carman start at tackle, then Cappa, Karras, an Volson round out the interior.  I'm just not sure that's good enough for a team that's basically in it's final year of being able to load up for a title run with the impending cap changes in mind.  

I think it comes down to Carman and Volson, and how much they trust them.  I like Volson and feel like he could develop into an upper tier guard.  Carman played well when needed, but it's difficult to trust the guy.  The you have average Jonah eating up 12 mil in cap space.  

In any other year, I'd say you ride it out and let things develop, but this is different.  The Bengals are a top 3-5 team heading into the 2023 season.  I wouldn't blame them for being impatient and upgrading to ensure that the line gets shored up.

Yep

Cappa and Karras I'm fairly confident in. But that's pretty much where it ends. Williams ? I just don't know ? He's regressed over the last 20 games and he's had injury issues. Can he get back to where he was couple seasons ago, or has he peaked already ? 

Volson played well all things considered. But is there an upgrade out there ? Collins, oh boy !! I just don't trust that situation at all. Maybe jusy maybe Carman can step into a starting role. But I don't wanna bet the bank on it.

Then our backups ? Adeniji is the best we can do ? I just don't have much faith in any of them.

How many times did you hear Chris Jones name during the Super Bowl ? The Eagles have a much better Oline than we do. How many times was Mahomes running for his life ? The Chiefs have a much better Oline than we do.

We get the Oline shored up where we can pick up those 3rd and two's and run in the red zone. And of course protect Burrow and it's Lombardi time.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Solid post! In a way a very obvious post, but solid, nonetheless. Most folks remember Boomer, Brown, and the boys throwing it around back in the day. What I remember the best is two RBs, both very different, both having their way with opposing defenses. I love that we now have a dangerous passing attack, but I will be giddy if the team ever finds the offensive balance that they had in 88'. Straight up Bully Ball!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Absolutely agree, and to the bolded..... I was watching some highlights of that game the other day, and Samaje was running like a man possessed. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-18-2023, 02:20 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote:  
Solid post! In a way a very obvious post, but solid, nonetheless. Most folks remember Boomer, Brown, and the boys throwing it around back in the day. What I remember the best is two RBs, both very different, both having their way with opposing defenses. I love that we now have a dangerous passing attack, but I will be giddy if the team ever finds the offensive balance that they had in 88'.  Straight up Bully Ball!

We could block ANYONE in the league in those days. They were nasty up front.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Great post and thread Samhain. Completely agree, if we can get the running game elite no team can beat us. This is why we need
to add at least a couple OT's to the team, one in FA like a Garrett Bolles and one in the Draft like Darnell Wright for insurance in case
La'el and Jonah aren't either healthy or up to par. True that when La'el was finally getting healthy this Offense started to look insane
with a running game.

Mixon had a few big games running the ball, but blitz pickup is essential and his contract takes up too much dough IMO.

Bring back Perine, cut Mixon, draft a RB that can pick up the blitz like McKinnon and run like a mad man like Pacheco...

Look out if we do all this.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-18-2023, 01:46 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The run game has to get better. The OL has to get better. KC’s OL is the reason for Pachecos success. You put Mixon behind the KC’s line he’s all world. Mixon isn’t some hot and cold back. His great games are directly related to his OL play. Cappa Karrass and Volson can run block. Carman looked awfully good at left tackle ( for him lol). I’ve said this elsewhere. I’d swap picks with Detroit (18) and give up our second rounder and draft a top tackle. Sure we didn’t protect well vs KC but we lost on an uncharacteristic punt return and personal foul resulting in a last second 3 point loss. I say take away 3 KC OL starters and see how Pacheco does.

I'm not giving it all to the offensive line.  Pacheco runs like his life depends on it.  

[kalibengal]

(02-18-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree.  I don't think KC has the season they do at all if not for Pacheco.  A better running game will help to take some hits off Burrow as well.   I shared a post about some IOLs and potentially moving Volson to RT.  A bruiser inside on each side of Karras could go a long way to improving the run game.  

I am super impressed with KCs draft. I Gotta give them credit.
Everyone played and played well and finding Pacheco in round 6 or 7? wow

[Soonerpeace]

(02-19-2023, 11:54 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm not giving it all to the offensive line.  Pacheco runs like his life depends on it.  

When Pacheco was at Rutgers he averaged 4.3 yards. Why? Because he had crap lines that were always over matched. He may not be a 7th rounder but he didn’t just out of nowhere become so good. Put behind an average NFL line and he becomes an average back.

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 12:48 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: When Pacheco was at Rutgers he averaged 4.3 yards. Why? Because he had crap lines that were always over matched. He may not be a 7th rounder but he didn’t just out of nowhere become so good. Put behind an average NFL line and he becomes an average back.

There are so many guys in the league that would do much better with a great oline.  Traveyon Williams would hit 1200 yards if he was RB1 for the Eagles.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-19-2023, 12:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There are so many guys in the league that would do much better with a great oline.  Traveyon Williams would hit 1200 yards if he was RB1 for the Eagles.

Well the Eagles yes. Put Mixon behind the Eagles and he’s one of their best players. I’m not debating Mixon’s pass blocking or his contract. The Panthers game was not an anomaly. I can understand the debate on his contract and pass blocking but the love of Pacheco is beyond me. He can’t carry Mixon’s jock.

[Destro]

The past two seasons with a top ten O-line and we have two trophies.

I said what I said.

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 02:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the Eagles yes. Put Mixon behind the Eagles and he’s one of their best players. I’m not debating Mixon’s pass blocking or his contract. The Panthers game was not an anomaly. I can understand the debate on his contract and pass blocking but the love of Pacheco is beyond me. He can’t carry Mixon’s jock.

As it pertains to this season, the Panthers game is the true definition of an anomaly.  Without this game Mixon is bottom tier across the board in several categories.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-19-2023, 03:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: As it pertains to this season, the Panthers game is the true definition of an anomaly.  Without this game Mixon is bottom tier across the board in several categories.

I get it but he didn’t just remember to eat his wheaties that day. He can do that when the team does their part.