Bengals Front Office

[Soonerpeace]

(02-26-2023, 05:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tires would probably fall off if you kick them. Lol. He can't stay healthy anymore, sadly, and now he'll be 32. 

Perine isn't much of a bruiser either. 1.7 yards per rush after contact, 19 rushes per broken tackle. Neither are anything to write home about, let alone for a 240lb guy.

Bengals need to do a full refresh of their RB room, just wipe the slate clean and start over.

They aren’t.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-26-2023, 05:55 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They aren’t.

Didn't say they would. Said they need to.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-26-2023, 05:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The OL after an awful start ( provably because there were 4 new starters including a rookie) rose to #15 by PFF. It held Chris Jones to his 5th worst game with only 2 hurries and no sacks their first game. And the entire line gave up only 5 hurries. Against Buffalo it played very well with only 12 hurries. It’s like some of you blocked out how well they were playing in our 10 game win streak. And yes Volson will be our LG come September.

Are we praising and throwing an "only" on a number that would still amount to a 204 hurry season total, now? Don't know how that would rank in the NFL in 2022, but found an article about the 2018 season where the most hurries a team allowed was 166. That was obviously 16 games since it was 2018, but even 16 games at 12 a game is still 192. 

All that despite Burrow getting the ball out the 2nd fastest in the NFL.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-26-2023, 06:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Are we praising and throwing an "only" on a number that would still amount to a 204 hurry season total, now? Don't know how that would rank in the NFL in 2022, but found an article about the 2018 season where the most hurries a team allowed was 166. That was obviously 16 games since it was 2018, but even 16 games at 12 a game is still 192. 

All that despite Burrow getting the ball out the 2nd fastest in the NFL.

And Buffalo was worse with 17 pressures. Perspective my man.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-26-2023, 06:22 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And Buffalo was worse with 17 pressures. Perspective my man.

Josh Allen was 27th in time to throw, Joe Burrow was 2nd. That IS perspective, man. If Burrow held onto the ball that long, he would have been sacked 200 times.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-26-2023, 06:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Josh Allen was 27th in time to throw, Joe Burrow was 2nd. That IS perspective, man. If Burrow held onto the ball that long, he would have been sacked 200 times.

Perspective my man. We neutered Chris Jones and the KC DL when we were healthy. In fact the Cincy OL after the first 2 games was allowing 2 sacks a game during the regular season. Good enough for top 12 in the league. Sure it’s a problem but geez

[*Go Cards*]

When the Bengals went on that 10 game run it was because they realized the O-line was not getting it done and decided to have Burrow throw it much quicker to counter the rush imo.

The O-line improved but not positive the it improved that much, but it was promising the way Carman played at the end.

Now the great thing about this happening is that Burrow added that to his repertoire instead of always looking for the Home Run ball. Joe showed he has the mind to make those quick decisions which only a few QB's can really do.

If the Bengals can protect Joe he may very well prove to be amongst the greatest to ever play the game before its all said and done.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-26-2023, 06:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Josh Allen was 27th in time to throw, Joe Burrow was 2nd. That IS perspective, man. If Burrow held onto the ball that long, he would have been sacked 200 times.

Allen also rolls out & runs around a lot more. 

The general point stands about us throwing fast BECAUSE of the line.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-27-2023, 01:39 AM)Go Cards Wrote: When the Bengals went on that 10 game run it was because they realized the O-line was not getting it done and decided to have Burrow throw it much quicker to counter the rush imo.

The O-line improved but not positive the it improved that much, but it was promising the way Carman played at the end.

This is an interesting and sort of depressing take about our OL. Did the Cappa/Collins/Karras/Volson line + Jonah returning improve or was it really about Burrow just getting the ball out faster? I'd still like to think if we had a healthy OL in the playoffs we could have gone to the Super Bowl.

[KillerGoose]

(02-26-2023, 07:00 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Perspective my man. We neutered Chris Jones and the KC DL when we were healthy. In fact the Cincy OL after the first 2 games was allowing 2 sacks a game during the regular season. Good enough for top 12 in the league. Sure it’s a problem but geez

They were 15th, not top 12. If you remove something for Cincinnati, you have to remove it for the rest of the league as well. Otherwise, you skew the data. Cincinnati's OL did improve towards the middle of the season but injuries hit at the worst time. Now, we have both of our tackles coming off of knee surgery. 

[Soonerpeace]

(02-27-2023, 11:09 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: They were 15th, not top 12. If you remove something for Cincinnati, you have to remove it for the rest of the league as well. Otherwise, you skew the data. Cincinnati's OL did improve towards the middle of the season but injuries hit at the worst time. Now, we have both of our tackles coming off of knee surgery. 

We know that the OL struggled early. Likely their lack of experience together. Volson as a rookie had some tough matchups. As the year progressed Jonah & Collins struggled. The inside OL really improved. If Collins plays as expected we are pretty good. Jonah was effected by injuries. Geez we went on a 10 game win streak. We neutered the KC DL the first go round. I’m not maintaining that it’s close to acceptable but some think we are going to get 3 new OL to go with Cappa and Karras. Heck TheLeonardLeap was railing on Karras.

They aren’t spending on the OL like they did last year. I’d expect the first or second pick and less likely a FA. They aren’t going to let anything inhibit getting Tee. They want to extend him. Joe wants him period. They aren’t spending money on new free agents requiring large dollars.

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 12:07 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We know that the OL struggled early. Likely their lack of experience together. Volson as a rookie had some tough matchups. As the year progressed Jonah & Collins struggled. The inside OL really improved. If Collins plays as expected we are pretty good. Jonah was effected by injuries. Geez we went on a 10 game win streak. We neutered the KC DL the first go round. I’m not maintaining that it’s close to acceptable but some think we are going to get 3 new OL to go with Cappa and Karras. Heck TheLeonardLeap was railing on Karras.

They aren’t spending on the OL like they did last year. I’d expect the first or second pick and less likely a FA. They aren’t going to let anything inhibit getting Tee. They want to extend him. Joe wants him period. They aren’t spending money on new free agents requiring large dollars.

Joe should want Tee and some good olinemen. He could make all that happen, if he wanted to...

[Soonerpeace]

(02-27-2023, 12:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Joe should want Tee and some good olinemen. He could make all that happen, if he wanted to...

He’s good with Volson & Williams. Don’t know about Collins. Of course he’d like a few ringers and all pros but he wants Tee.

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 12:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He’s good with Volson & Williams. Don’t know about Collins. Of course he’d like a few ringers and all pros but he wants Tee.

We all know he wants Tee, but like I said he can be responsible for Tee and a good OT... $500M provides a lot of options.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-27-2023, 12:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We all know he wants Tee, but like I said he can be responsible for Tee and a good OT... $500M provides a lot of options.

What do you think Joe’s contract ends up at? Top 5 QB’s?

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-27-2023, 01:39 AM)Go Cards Wrote: When the Bengals went on that 10 game run it was because they realized the O-line was not getting it done and decided to have Burrow throw it much quicker to counter the rush imo.

The O-line improved but not positive the it improved that much, but it was promising the way Carman played at the end.

Now the great thing about this happening is that Burrow added that to his repertoire instead of always looking for the Home Run ball. Joe showed he has the mind to make those quick decisions which only a few QB's can really do as well.

If the Bengals can protect Joe he may very well prove to be amongst the greatest to ever play the game before its all said and done.

It's not like they became a really good Oline but during that stretch you could definitely see better pockets as they got more experience together. The shorter, quicker throws probably had a little more to do with the types of defenses they were playing. They certainly gave up a lot of sacks the first two games and a good portion of it was that they were stuck in last years 'bombs away' offense, as you noted. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-27-2023, 10:20 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This is an interesting and sort of depressing take about our OL. Did the Cappa/Collins/Karras/Volson line + Jonah returning improve or was it really about Burrow just getting the ball out faster? I'd still like to think if we had a healthy OL in the playoffs we could have gone to the Super Bowl.

Can't definitively answer that, but it is a fact that in 2021 Burrow had a 2.69 time to throw, and in 2022 he had a 2.55. Doesn't sound like a ton, but 2.69 in 2022 would be a 3-way tie for 10th, while his 2.55 was 2nd fastest.

Burrow also attempted 1.3 less air yards per pass attempt in 2022 than he did in 2021 (went from 8.1 to 6.8).

So he was throwing it much quicker, and throwing it much shorter. Both can help hide poor OL play.

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 12:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: What do you think Joe’s contract ends up at? Top 5 QB’s?

I hope it is 8-10 years, 450-500M, rolling guarantees.  I truly have no idea.

[*Go Cards*]

(02-27-2023, 12:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We all know he wants Tee, but like I said he can be responsible for Tee and a good OT... $500M provides a lot of options.

Agree that he certainly could structure his contract and take less than market value and get everything he covets. But don't really think he should, he is worth what he is worth. Now structuring it in a team friendly way would be cool. 

Just think keeping Tee and Chase will hamstring this team and shorten Burrow's career per all the hits he will take by not shoring up O-line. Plus him still not having time to go through his reads to make those WR's the most deadly in the NFL per having to throw in 2 seconds.

Think the O-line is closer than we think but still needs one stud, we have good O-linemen but need one great one. Trust me if we ever get a stud O-lineman he will quickly become what Joe wants to keep more than anything else. 

Know its not popular but believe one needs to be traded. Could make a strong case for keeping Tee over Chase per the
$10 million monetary differences it may cost to sign each. Chase is better but when you weigh in the money it probably evens out or makes Tee a little better imo per you get another $10 million player for same price. 

Yet we all know Chase is Burrow's guy, so I don't even entertain this argument knowing Chase is going to stay for sure.  Chase is worthy anyhow per being a complete WR in catching and blocking.  

Love Tee but would trade him for a early to mid 1st round pick if offered. Use that pick to try and add the stud O-lineman in draft and then grab Darnell Washington with the 28th pick. Blocking should be upgraded tremendously and will have TE who can block and still be a weapon catching the ball. Unlike Sample who is really only a good blocker. Hurst and Washington would be a luxury in the passing game yet still help the O-line

Then would replace Tee with 2 WR's instead of trying to just hit on only one. Could either draft WR's in the 2nd and 3rd round or the 2nd pick and add an aging FA vet ring chasing along with the rookie. 

Its not a popular solution and I get it, love all 3 of our WR's as well. But the Bengals are so close and need to take care of business instead of following their heart in personnel decisions. Plus Burrow is the franchise and he has to be protected at all costs. We've already seen that Tee or Chase can get hurt and miss games without effecting the Bengals ability to win games. This is just not the case with Burrow, if he goes down the entire team goes with him.  

It's an old saying that has nothing to do with football but is usually proven correct, never put all your eggs in one basket. I mean what are we talking, $40 million a year for Burrow, $30 for Chase and $20 for Tee equaling $90 million of our cap space ?  Just does not seem feasible to win with this sort of plan. 

plus if the Bengals go all in on Tee and he leaves for a bigger contract to become another teams #1 WR, then the Bengals are left holding the bag. Do not trust his agent to not try and milk every penny he can from whoever he can. 

if they decide to keep Tee ? Then he needs to be signed now so that there is no chance of losing such a commodity and him becoming a one year band aid that could have fetched a nice price in trade and freed up cap space to help in other areas. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-27-2023, 12:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: What do you think Joe’s contract ends up at? Top 5 QB’s?

Top 1 at signing is my guess. Probably to then be passed by whomever gets signed after him, assuming he's not the last one of the group to get extended.

Probably going to have 3-4 guys all pass up Rodgers' $50.27m/yr AAV this offseason. So it is just a matter of what order they sign their deals in.